MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[oldknight]

Calvin basketball is trash. When beating Geneva and Grace are signature wins, it's embarrassing.

Actually, if Calvin has a "signature win" it would have to be Carthage (8-3 overall, 2-1 in the CCIW).

[Gregory Sager]

... with a nice road victory today over WIAC preseason favorite UW-Oshkosh up in Bib-Overall City.

[sac]

Oshkosh 73  Calvin 52
Calvin 88  Carthage 83
Carthage 68 Oshkosh 67 OT

Sports!!!

[Grutte Dirk]

Calvin basketball is trash.

If you're charging for the feed it better be high quality and highly produced.

Rough holidays?

[sac]

Using win probability, Massey has an odd take on the upcoming MIAA season

Hope  14-0
Adrian 8-6
Albion 8-6
Alma   8-6
Calvin  8-6
Trine    8-6
Kzoo   1-13
Olivet   1-13

That tie-breaker would be something.  I do not think this will happen.

[HOPEful]

If Calvin hits the .500 mark this season that will be a huge victory.

Fwiw, Calvin being .500 or below is perfectly acceptable to me and I don't even need the koolaid.

...In their pre-conference schedule, I see 4-7 with losses to Augie, Cornerstone, Aquinas, Oshkosh, Wheaton, Anderson, and Wittenberg.

In conference play, I think they go .500 (maybe)... Hope and Alma should sweep them and they should sweep Olivet. The rest could all be splits. I think the neighborhood of 11 wins is about right.

I was off by a win against Anderson (also, technically they lost to Miliken and not Wittenberg)

However, with 14 MIAA games to go, if they win all their home games (excluding Hope) and just win @ Kzoo and Olivet, that's 7 wins and gets them to 12. If I can revise my prediction, I'd put them at 13 or 14 wins instead of 11.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

MIAA Pick 'Em contest is up and running - sorry for the lateness of my reminder to join.  Just dawned on me this morning that conference play begins tomorrow and I hadn't gotten this going.  Guess I was still basking in the glory of winning last year (OK, it's really just old age or something).

Please visit the MIAA Pick 'Em page and join in the fun!!!

[Knight2Day]

If Calvin hits the .500 mark this season that will be a huge victory.

Fwiw, Calvin being .500 or below is perfectly acceptable to me and I don't even need the koolaid.

...In their pre-conference schedule, I see 4-7 with losses to Augie, Cornerstone, Aquinas, Oshkosh, Wheaton, Anderson, and Wittenberg.

In conference play, I think they go .500 (maybe)... Hope and Alma should sweep them and they should sweep Olivet. The rest could all be splits. I think the neighborhood of 11 wins is about right.

I was off by a win against Anderson (also, technically they lost to Miliken and not Wittenberg)

However, with 14 MIAA games to go, if they win all their home games (excluding Hope) and just win @ Kzoo and Olivet, that's 7 wins and gets them to 12. If I can revise my prediction, I'd put them at 13 or 14 wins instead of 11.

Which is trash. No wonder no basketball alumni attend games and the attendance is that of a morgue. But hey, at least we have a really nice gym for people to come look at. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

^^^ I would have liked to watch the games, but Mount charges $6 for video.  And I've watched their feed for hoops.  It's not worth $6.

You're not the only one who brought that up over the last couple of days. I know I along with some folks from Hope made comment of it as well to Mount Union. I really hope this is not a trend that catches on.

I don't mind that teams charge for an HD feed. For really big games in the past, I have spent the money to have a nice feed to plug my HDMI cable into the laptop and watch it on the big screen TV. But charging $6 for a below average feed to people that are way out of town is not good.

The $6 is an HD feed, but I still don't think that's worth $6.  I've only seen a handful of schools charging for video and that's their decision.  It just stinks for anyone not local.  Hope fans aren't driving to Alliance, but I'll bet they'd like to see them play Williams.

I don't tend to defend those who charge for HD feeds, but I do know what is going on behind the scenes. Let's just say that there hasn't been much put in the budget from the best I can tell and the only way to keep streaming is to charge... and maybe send a message to those far higher up the food chain to help get that problem resolved so they don't have to charge. I assure you, it wasn't something Mount Union wanted to do this season. Here is hoping the message is received and not necessarily by those of the opposition... but by alums and others more directly involved.

[Fifth and Putnam]

^^^ I would have liked to watch the games, but Mount charges $6 for video.  And I've watched their feed for hoops.  It's not worth $6.

You're not the only one who brought that up over the last couple of days. I know I along with some folks from Hope made comment of it as well to Mount Union. I really hope this is not a trend that catches on.

I don't mind that teams charge for an HD feed. For really big games in the past, I have spent the money to have a nice feed to plug my HDMI cable into the laptop and watch it on the big screen TV. But charging $6 for a below average feed to people that are way out of town is not good.

The $6 is an HD feed, but I still don't think that's worth $6.  I've only seen a handful of schools charging for video and that's their decision.  It just stinks for anyone not local.  Hope fans aren't driving to Alliance, but I'll bet they'd like to see them play Williams.

I don't tend to defend those who charge for HD feeds, but I do know what is going on behind the scenes. Let's just say that there hasn't been much put in the budget from the best I can tell and the only way to keep streaming is to charge... and maybe send a message to those far higher up the food chain to help get that problem resolved so they don't have to charge. I assure you, it wasn't something Mount Union wanted to do this season. Here is hoping the message is received and not necessarily by those of the opposition... but by alums and others more directly involved.

On the topic but off the topic, I'd be curious to see school's numbers as to how many folks watch a game at the SD level vs. how many pay for the HD upgrade when it's available. I assume they have a cut that goes to the provider (Boxcast, ect.) unless the school puts in on themselves. I just wonder if schools are making much revenue off of this.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

^^^ I would have liked to watch the games, but Mount charges $6 for video.  And I've watched their feed for hoops.  It's not worth $6.

You're not the only one who brought that up over the last couple of days. I know I along with some folks from Hope made comment of it as well to Mount Union. I really hope this is not a trend that catches on.

I don't mind that teams charge for an HD feed. For really big games in the past, I have spent the money to have a nice feed to plug my HDMI cable into the laptop and watch it on the big screen TV. But charging $6 for a below average feed to people that are way out of town is not good.

The $6 is an HD feed, but I still don't think that's worth $6.  I've only seen a handful of schools charging for video and that's their decision.  It just stinks for anyone not local.  Hope fans aren't driving to Alliance, but I'll bet they'd like to see them play Williams.

I don't tend to defend those who charge for HD feeds, but I do know what is going on behind the scenes. Let's just say that there hasn't been much put in the budget from the best I can tell and the only way to keep streaming is to charge... and maybe send a message to those far higher up the food chain to help get that problem resolved so they don't have to charge. I assure you, it wasn't something Mount Union wanted to do this season. Here is hoping the message is received and not necessarily by those of the opposition... but by alums and others more directly involved.

On the topic but off the topic, I'd be curious to see school's numbers as to how many folks watch a game at the SD level vs. how many pay for the HD upgrade when it's available. I assume they have a cut that goes to the provider (Boxcast, ect.) unless the school puts in on themselves. I just wonder if schools are making much revenue off of this.

Usually PPV options are a split revenue and with Mount Union's case I believe that is exactly how it is set up. I do know that their past PPV for HD option was a split with Boxcast. I don't think they changed that model, but I am not remember the details.

I can say that in the past when I have discussed PPV models with some schools/clients, the amount brought in has not justified the option. I have actually helped get rid of the model at schools like Messiah where they are now reaping the benefits of their athletics donations program (like a booster club of sorts) where a good portion of that raised to the program goes towards web streaming. They have upped their game as a result. I know other schools are starting to do this, but Messiah makes a big push with the effort and it has shown on the books. I also know F&M has found that the more they put into their webstreaming efforts (without asking for money) the more they have gotten in terms of donations as well. The idea being, if we put in a good chunk of money to web stream our alums, parents, etc. will thank us with donations - for F&M the numbers as of this summer were pretty impressive.

Personally, PPV I think is one of the worst ideas out there along with hiding archives of games (the assumption people can watch games lives, especially during the week, is ridiculous). However, I do know of schools like Mount Union who feel they have no choice. I do agree, if you are going to charge for the viewership, the quality better be up there with Wabash, Stevenson, Roanoke, and several others. Ironically, those who do the best job in web streaming in Division III ... offer it for free to viewers.

[Fifth and Putnam]

^^^ I would have liked to watch the games, but Mount charges $6 for video.  And I've watched their feed for hoops.  It's not worth $6.

You're not the only one who brought that up over the last couple of days. I know I along with some folks from Hope made comment of it as well to Mount Union. I really hope this is not a trend that catches on.

I don't mind that teams charge for an HD feed. For really big games in the past, I have spent the money to have a nice feed to plug my HDMI cable into the laptop and watch it on the big screen TV. But charging $6 for a below average feed to people that are way out of town is not good.

The $6 is an HD feed, but I still don't think that's worth $6.  I've only seen a handful of schools charging for video and that's their decision.  It just stinks for anyone not local.  Hope fans aren't driving to Alliance, but I'll bet they'd like to see them play Williams.

I don't tend to defend those who charge for HD feeds, but I do know what is going on behind the scenes. Let's just say that there hasn't been much put in the budget from the best I can tell and the only way to keep streaming is to charge... and maybe send a message to those far higher up the food chain to help get that problem resolved so they don't have to charge. I assure you, it wasn't something Mount Union wanted to do this season. Here is hoping the message is received and not necessarily by those of the opposition... but by alums and others more directly involved.

On the topic but off the topic, I'd be curious to see school's numbers as to how many folks watch a game at the SD level vs. how many pay for the HD upgrade when it's available. I assume they have a cut that goes to the provider (Boxcast, ect.) unless the school puts in on themselves. I just wonder if schools are making much revenue off of this.

Usually PPV options are a split revenue and with Mount Union's case I believe that is exactly how it is set up. I do know that their past PPV for HD option was a split with Boxcast. I don't think they changed that model, but I am not remember the details.

I can say that in the past when I have discussed PPV models with some schools/clients, the amount brought in has not justified the option. I have actually helped get rid of the model at schools like Messiah where they are now reaping the benefits of their athletics donations program (like a booster club of sorts) where a good portion of that raised to the program goes towards web streaming. They have upped their game as a result. I know other schools are starting to do this, but Messiah makes a big push with the effort and it has shown on the books. I also know F&M has found that the more they put into their webstreaming efforts (without asking for money) the more they have gotten in terms of donations as well. The idea being, if we put in a good chunk of money to web stream our alums, parents, etc. will thank us with donations - for F&M the numbers as of this summer were pretty impressive.

Personally, PPV I think is one of the worst ideas out there along with hiding archives of games (the assumption people can watch games lives, especially during the week, is ridiculous). However, I do know of schools like Mount Union who feel they have no choice. I do agree, if you are going to charge for the viewership, the quality better be up there with Wabash, Stevenson, Roanoke, and several others. Ironically, those who do the best job in web streaming in Division III ... offer it for free to viewers.

I really hope those that use the free streaming donate to those programs for numerous reasons. My biggest fear though when I logged on to Mount's website to check out Hope-Williams the other day and saw an ask for $$$ was this: Most of the folks on this board are probably like you and I in that we watch multiple games from multiple different schools on any given night. It's not uncommon for me to have 3 streams open at once on a Wednesday night if there are several great games on. If a multitude of schools end up in the same boat and begin charging to watch games, that has an effect on those that evaluate teams (bloggers, podcasters, voters, ect.). I know we're not there yet, but I would hate for access to Division III basketball to become a big issue for those that love it most. Of course, I say all this knowing full well that access to Division III basketball has never been better. But, an issue to note none the less.

[Gregory Sager]

^ This.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

From my experience, the number of teams charging for streaming is down and continues to go down. That doesn't mean some schools, like Mount, wont change course and start charging... the tendencies and pattern are just going in the opposite direction. Again, Mount didn't want to do it... but those responsible for streaming felt they had no choice and having talked to them about it, I understand their predicament.

The other thing that is interesting is the new options out there for schools through companies to try and get some kind of money back for the investment. There are schools who have put in 5-6 figures worth of money into these efforts and when done right that is NOT a one-time thing. The good schools have yearly budgets and plans to keep their streaming top-notch. Some streaming entities (like Blue Frame) are coming up with advertising options that may help schools out. It may add in more media timeouts (though, those are becoming popular for teams when media isn't even there), but we can handle that if it gives schools a few bucks to stream better quality.

The irony on the game you wanted to watch: Williams charges as well and they have never been worth the cost of watching. Some schools, like Williams, have their heads in the sand about it (just like coaches and archiving video - I need to see if I can speak to the coaches association about this, actually)... at least schools like Mount understand the ramifications and didn't make the decision lightly. There are D1s who charge a lot who don't provide much in return. Sadly, some schools see that model and run to it. The idea of charging more to parents of students who are already paying a lot... or to alums who already paid a lot... for education seems completely backwards to me... but some schools don't see it that way ... or care.

[sac]

Albion is not streaming the game from Kresge tonight for free.