MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

Uh,...... you have to see the end of the Adrian/Kalamazoo game.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUv4D8qVz4E    Fwd to about 1:45:00  you'll have to endure a few timouts.

Pay special attention to the Adrian in-bounds after the technical foul shot and the referee's hand signals.......and watch to the end.  Brutal.

[HOPEful]

Just an FYI - Trewhella left Calvin at the break and will be playing elsewhere.

Shows how closely I've been following calvin this season  I just assumed he was injured. Thanks HopeKnight, I made changes to my original post...

[oldknight]

Uh,...... you have to see the end of the Adrian/Kalamazoo game.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUv4D8qVz4E    Fwd to about 1:45:00  you'll have to endure a few timouts.

Pay special attention to the Adrian in-bounds after the technical foul shot and the referee's hand signals.......and watch to the end.  Brutal.

Brutal indeed, particularly by the trailing official who "corrected" the baseline official's ruling that the inbounds pass had been knocked out by the Kalamazoo defender. Not only is it clear on the video that the Kalamazoo player hit it out, but the players on both teams knew the initial call was correct. You can see everyone quickly lining up (without complaint from Kalamazoo) for a second inbounds pass by Adrian.

Your post does mistakenly mention a "technical foul" when the call leading to the winning free throws was for the Adrian defender trying to squeeze his way through the double screen while the made three pointer was in the air. That call was debateable too, though not as horrific as the overrule on the baseline.

[sac]

Uh,...... you have to see the end of the Adrian/Kalamazoo game.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUv4D8qVz4E    Fwd to about 1:45:00  you'll have to endure a few timouts.

Pay special attention to the Adrian in-bounds after the technical foul shot and the referee's hand signals.......and watch to the end.  Brutal.

Brutal indeed, particularly by the trailing official who "corrected" the baseline official's ruling that the inbounds pass had been knocked out by the Kalamazoo defender. Not only is it clear on the video that the Kalamazoo player hit it out, but the players on both teams knew the initial call was correct. You can see everyone quickly lining up (without complaint from Kalamazoo) for a second inbounds pass by Adrian.

Your post does mistakenly mention a "technical foul" when the call leading to the winning free throws was for the Adrian defender trying to squeeze his way through the double screen while the made three pointer was in the air. That call was debateable too, though not as horrific as the overrule on the baseline.

There was a technical foul on DaVonte Harris for calling a timeout when they had none.   And the baseline play was reversed because the in-bounder should have been stationary, even though the official signaled he could run the baseline.  The referee comes from way out at midcourt to overturn the play, just bizarre.

And yeah that last foul was debatable and as one person told me, "at that point haven't you done enough damage just let it go".

pbp  http://miaa.org/sports/mbkb/2016-17/boxscores/20170125_060v.xml?view=plays

That whole sequence is the final 9 seconds of the game.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Uh,...... you have to see the end of the Adrian/Kalamazoo game.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUv4D8qVz4E    Fwd to about 1:45:00  you'll have to endure a few timouts.

Pay special attention to the Adrian in-bounds after the technical foul shot and the referee's hand signals.......and watch to the end.  Brutal.

Brutal indeed, particularly by the trailing official who "corrected" the baseline official's ruling that the inbounds pass had been knocked out by the Kalamazoo defender. Not only is it clear on the video that the Kalamazoo player hit it out, but the players on both teams knew the initial call was correct. You can see everyone quickly lining up (without complaint from Kalamazoo) for a second inbounds pass by Adrian.

Your post does mistakenly mention a "technical foul" when the call leading to the winning free throws was for the Adrian defender trying to squeeze his way through the double screen while the made three pointer was in the air. That call was debateable too, though not as horrific as the overrule on the baseline.

There was a technical foul on DaVonte Harris for calling a timeout when they had none.   And the baseline play was reversed because the in-bounder should have been stationary, even though the official signaled he could run the baseline.  The referee comes from way out at midcourt to overturn the play, just bizarre.

And yeah that last foul was debatable and as one person told me, "at that point haven't you done enough damage just let it go".

pbp  http://miaa.org/sports/mbkb/2016-17/boxscores/20170125_060v.xml?view=plays

That whole sequence is the final 9 seconds of the game.

WOW - what an awful stretch of officiating.  Not sure Harris was even calling a timeout.  The running the baseline on the inbounds play would seem to be the worst of it - since the official clearly indicated to the player (several times) that he could do that.  Even if it should have been a stationary inbound, the official indicated it wasn't - not sure how you penalize a team for doing what the official has shown to be allowed.  SMH

[HopeKnight]

Just an FYI - Trewhella left Calvin at the break and will be playing elsewhere.

Shows how closely I've been following calvin this season  I just assumed he was injured. Thanks HopeKnight, I made changes to my original post...

Huckaby also left this year and will play elsewhere - and last year both Holesinger & Vanderbrug. If all these guys were still there - Calvin would be very good.

I also agree that Denney & Wilks should get the most shots by far but they should come in the flow of the game not by doing 4 dribble moves and then jacking it up.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

From the Pick 'Em page - had to share

Hope 4
Adrian 2
Kalamazoo 2
Calvin 1

Two 2's and no 3?

Even Calvin fans can't make a 3!

[Knight2Day]

Hope v. Calvin

Attended both games - Hope's Varsity & JV beat Calvin at Calvin easily. Hope had two more gears and could have won easily by more. Calvin simply can't compete and there was no comparison. Calvin lacks athleticism, lacks shooters, lacks ball-handlers, lacks speed and lacks passion. Very painful brand of basketball to watch including terrible shot selection - both Denney & Wilks look to shoot every time they touch it and the guards were completely overmatched. Other than Wolterink on JV, there is very little talent at the JV level either. Tough to win against any good teams with very little talent. Not sure Coach K could win with these players - clearly Coach KVS cannot.

HK

KVS is the only coach at Calvin who's only job is to coach. Yes he's the "facilities manager" but if your only true responsibility is to produce a winning team, you would think something as valuable as recruiting would be something that would be focused on. Unfortunately, outside of alumni families, KVS makes no effort to get students from outside of western Michigan unless they approach the program first whereas teams like volleyball produce a winning product by making the only boundary line that of faith and hard work. KVS assumed for too long that he was going to keep getting good players from schools like GRCHS and Calvin and now those players go elsewhere because the product on Calvins court just isn't that great and they hear about 5 contributing players over the past 2 years just walking away. Why do you think players like Josh Engelsma, Bryan Van Harn, heck, even Brent Schuster (who later came back) and now players like Vanderbrug walk away? I can tell you, it isn't because the pressures of D3 ball are that excruciating. And those are the things high school players are hearing about that sway whether they want to play at Calvin. When I was at Calvin, the running joke was that you could put together a team of guys from the dorms that would beat the varsity by 20. The sad part is that it wasn't completely a joke, it was more truthful than anything. But none of those guys wanted to be a part of the program.

[KnightSlappy]

When I was at Calvin, the running joke was that you could put together a team of guys from the dorms that would beat the varsity by 20. The sad part is that it wasn't completely a joke, it was more truthful than anything. But none of those guys wanted to be a part of the program.

What years were you at Calvin? This does not seem like it could be true.

[almcguirejr]

Just an FYI - Trewhella left Calvin at the break and will be playing elsewhere.

Shows how closely I've been following calvin this season  I just assumed he was injured. Thanks HopeKnight, I made changes to my original post...

Huckaby also left this year and will play elsewhere - and last year both Holesinger & Vanderbrug. If all these guys were still there - Calvin would be very good.

I also agree that Denney & Wilks should get the most shots by far but they should come in the flow of the game not by doing 4 dribble moves and then jacking it up.

Huckaby wasn't good enough to play. Holesinger is serving in the military.

[arena]

Hope v. Calvin

Attended both games - Hope's Varsity & JV beat Calvin at Calvin easily. Hope had two more gears and could have won easily by more. Calvin simply can't compete and there was no comparison. Calvin lacks athleticism, lacks shooters, lacks ball-handlers, lacks speed and lacks passion. Very painful brand of basketball to watch including terrible shot selection - both Denney & Wilks look to shoot every time they touch it and the guards were completely overmatched. Other than Wolterink on JV, there is very little talent at the JV level either. Tough to win against any good teams with very little talent. Not sure Coach K could win with these players - clearly Coach KVS cannot.

HK

KVS is the only coach at Calvin who's only job is to coach. Yes he's the "facilities manager" but if your only true responsibility is to produce a winning team, you would think something as valuable as recruiting would be something that would be focused on. Unfortunately, outside of alumni families, KVS makes no effort to get students from outside of western Michigan unless they approach the program first whereas teams like volleyball produce a winning product by making the only boundary line that of faith and hard work. KVS assumed for too long that he was going to keep getting good players from schools like GRCHS and Calvin and now those players go elsewhere because the product on Calvins court just isn't that great and they hear about 5 contributing players over the past 2 years just walking away. Why do you think players like Josh Engelsma, Bryan Van Harn, heck, even Brent Schuster (who later came back) and now players like Vanderbrug walk away? I can tell you, it isn't because the pressures of D3 ball are that excruciating. And those are the things high school players are hearing about that sway whether they want to play at Calvin. When I was at Calvin, the running joke was that you could put together a team of guys from the dorms that would beat the varsity by 20. The sad part is that it wasn't completely a joke, it was more truthful than anything. But none of those guys wanted to be a part of the program.

Nice to know Calvin is in a better financial place where it can pay a coach to run a program (into the ground) and be facilities manager.

[HopeKnight]

Hope v. Calvin

Attended both games - Hope's Varsity & JV beat Calvin at Calvin easily. Hope had two more gears and could have won easily by more. Calvin simply can't compete and there was no comparison. Calvin lacks athleticism, lacks shooters, lacks ball-handlers, lacks speed and lacks passion. Very painful brand of basketball to watch including terrible shot selection - both Denney & Wilks look to shoot every time they touch it and the guards were completely overmatched. Other than Wolterink on JV, there is very little talent at the JV level either. Tough to win against any good teams with very little talent. Not sure Coach K could win with these players - clearly Coach KVS cannot.

HK

To clarify, the Hope varsity won easily, but the JV game went into overtime so I wouldn't say that Hope's second squad won easily. With regard to who is the best player on Calvin's JV team, I believe it's Alex Bos, not Wolterink, though I admit, reasonable people could differ on that.

As for Wilks, I think he should shoot more. He's Calvin's most reliable scorer so I don't know why he should shoot less.

Agree on JV game that it was close but ended in a 10 point OT loss for Calvin as Zandstra scored 10 of his 22 in OT to seal the victory for Hope. Hope's JV has much more speed and athleticism than Calvin but lacks size. For Calvin Wolterink & Bos (plus DeWitte & DeVries) look like varsity players Hope has Zandstra, Ritsema, Morrison and maybe Hewitt & Lewis but they are very small and thin. Hope will not be as dominant next year and Calvin may be about the same. Both teams need productive off-seasons.     

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

KVS is the only coach at Calvin who's only job is to coach. Yes he's the "facilities manager" but if your only true responsibility is to produce a winning team, you would think something as valuable as recruiting would be something that would be focused on. Unfortunately, outside of alumni families, KVS makes no effort to get students from outside of western Michigan unless they approach the program first whereas teams like volleyball produce a winning product by making the only boundary line that of faith and hard work. KVS assumed for too long that he was going to keep getting good players from schools like GRCHS and Calvin and now those players go elsewhere because the product on Calvins court just isn't that great and they hear about 5 contributing players over the past 2 years just walking away. Why do you think players like Josh Engelsma, Bryan Van Harn, heck, even Brent Schuster (who later came back) and now players like Vanderbrug walk away? I can tell you, it isn't because the pressures of D3 ball are that excruciating. And those are the things high school players are hearing about that sway whether they want to play at Calvin. When I was at Calvin, the running joke was that you could put together a team of guys from the dorms that would beat the varsity by 20. The sad part is that it wasn't completely a joke, it was more truthful than anything. But none of those guys wanted to be a part of the program.

This is absolutely not true. Kevin Vande Streek teaches two to three classes a semester besides being coach. I know this because I have talked extensively about it including on Hoopsville. The reason Jeff Ross stepped aside from women's basketball was that coaching WBB, and tennis, and teaching two to three classes was getting to be too much. On top of it all, Vande Streek does not have any full-time assistant, thus this year is interesting because Vande Streek is also the men's committee chair. Calvin was nice enough to shift the classes Vande Streek teaches - adding one in the first semester (meaning three to four classes) and removing one in the second (down to two or one) so he could have more time to the team and his NCAA responsibilities (he is well enough respected by his peers who wanted him to be chair of the committee this year - his final year on the committee).

Furthermore, the shift to coaches not teaching is only recent. If you listen to my interview with Chuck Winkelman he discusses this change and the fact that he and a few of the newer hires are no longer required to teach. That there is now a concerted effort to split the kinesiology teaching side from the coaching/athletics side to give coaches more time to focus on their teams. However, it is not something they are doing across the board. Best I can tell, they are only doing this for new hires. Anyone else is still "grandfathered" into the old standard of coaching and teaching. Prior to the new hires, ALL coaches had to teach at the same time. No exceptions that I am aware of.

I am sure people would like to criticize coaches because they don't live up to whatever expectations you have for them, but let's make sure we have the facts straight before we accused someone like Kevin Vande Streek for only being responsible to coach. That isn't accurate in any way, shape, or form.

Here is Vande Streek's page on the Calvin academic site: https://calvin.edu/directory/people/kevin-vande-streek. Feel free to look at the details of what he has done at Calvin academically.

If you want links to the Hoopsville interviews where this is discussed, I am happy to source those as well.

Let me also add it must be nice to have a bar as high as Calvin's apparently is that a few challenging seasons (one season below .500 in how many years?) can be considered bad. My alma mater hasn't had a winning season in 11+ seasons on the men's side and only had three 10+ win seasons on the women's side since I got there in 1995. While I am sure the argument back will be, "we expect better because we are better," I will contend that this is more about the student-athlete experience... or more importantly about the student's experience. Sometimes Ws and Ls need to take a back seat even if for just a short period of time. Calvin men's basketball has been to more final fours and championship games than some Division III programs will ever experience in their entire athletics history.

[oldknight]

Thanks to Dave McHugh for offering an accurate report on VandeStreek's responsibilities. I knew the accusation that he was only facilities manager in addition to head coach was untrue the moment I read it, so your detailed correction saved me the time of looking up and detailing KVS's job obligations at Calvin (and with the NCAA). He may not be a perfect coach, but the implied accusation that Calvin's coach is a slacker damages K2D's credibility when he makes a criticism. Let me add that KVS also stepped in and took over the Calvin softball program last April when their head coach got dismissed mid-season.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Uh,...... you have to see the end of the Adrian/Kalamazoo game.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUv4D8qVz4E    Fwd to about 1:45:00  you'll have to endure a few timouts.

Pay special attention to the Adrian in-bounds after the technical foul shot and the referee's hand signals.......and watch to the end.  Brutal.

Brutal indeed, particularly by the trailing official who "corrected" the baseline official's ruling that the inbounds pass had been knocked out by the Kalamazoo defender. Not only is it clear on the video that the Kalamazoo player hit it out, but the players on both teams knew the initial call was correct. You can see everyone quickly lining up (without complaint from Kalamazoo) for a second inbounds pass by Adrian.

Your post does mistakenly mention a "technical foul" when the call leading to the winning free throws was for the Adrian defender trying to squeeze his way through the double screen while the made three pointer was in the air. That call was debatable too, though not as horrific as the overrule on the baseline.

Per the corrected inbound play... that is disappointing. I saw the ref indicate he could move (the ref was wrong) and because of that the player moved. The lead official strolling over to fix it actually drives me crazy. I can't tell you how many I know would have blown their whistle a few extra times and would have been running to get to their colleague. They should have reset the play and the clock, put the ball back where it was supposed to be, and re-inbounded the play. Can't fault the player or team for following the refs instructions.

BTW - that inbounds didn't take place after the tech. It took place on a missed shot and rebound. It was a dead-ball rebound and thus why the player wasn't supposed to move.

AS for the timeout... I know the player argued he didn't call it, but all his actions including looking at the ref made it seem like a timeout. The ref was staring right at him. If he didn't call it, that is unfortunate, but there wasn't anything in that video that would have overturned it (if that was possible).

And allowing Adrian to have a (several) mini huddle before the free throw... SMH. These extra huddles need to fall under delay of games and be tech worthy in my opinion. Happen far too often.

And I agree, I think the foul call on the three pointer was probably justified. He shoved his way through a double-screen to try and get to the player. Maybe it was over-dramatized, but he also initiated that effort.