MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[realist]

Well, I sure hope he (KVS) does a better job in all his other responsibilities than he does on his primary one as men's basketball coach.
Perhaps Wed. night's defeat to Hope can be placed on his being "preoccupied" with his other responsibilities.  His NCAA duties must have clouded his thinking when he pulled 3 starters with a 12-6 lead which. using his own word, "unraveled".  Some of us think he should concentrate on his primary job, and drop the extracurricular activities if 10-15 seasons are the result.

Yes, Calvin has set the bar very high.  President Le Roy has repeatedly said that he expects "excellence" in all areas of campus life.  He expects excellence in the class room, as well as on the playing field or court.  Most coaches would kill for the physical plant, and all the other things that Calvin has to offer potential student athletes.  16-12, 13-13, and 10-15 may be excellent where you are from, but not so much here.

It is John Ross, not Jeff.  Since you are big on facts.

[Gregory Sager]

Hope v. Calvin

Attended both games - Hope's Varsity & JV beat Calvin at Calvin easily. Hope had two more gears and could have won easily by more. Calvin simply can't compete and there was no comparison. Calvin lacks athleticism, lacks shooters, lacks ball-handlers, lacks speed and lacks passion. Very painful brand of basketball to watch including terrible shot selection - both Denney & Wilks look to shoot every time they touch it and the guards were completely overmatched. Other than Wolterink on JV, there is very little talent at the JV level either. Tough to win against any good teams with very little talent. Not sure Coach K could win with these players - clearly Coach KVS cannot.

HK

To clarify, the Hope varsity won easily, but the JV game went into overtime so I wouldn't say that Hope's second squad won easily. With regard to who is the best player on Calvin's JV team, I believe it's Alex Bos, not Wolterink, though I admit, reasonable people could differ on that.

As for Wilks, I think he should shoot more. He's Calvin's most reliable scorer so I don't know why he should shoot less.

Agree on JV game that it was close but ended in a 10 point OT loss for Calvin as Zandstra scored 10 of his 22 in OT to seal the victory for Hope.

Keep in mind that a ten-point outcome in overtime is still a closer game than a one-point outcome in regulation. The word "easily" should never be used to describe an overtime win.

[oldknight]

Hope v. Calvin

Attended both games - Hope's Varsity & JV beat Calvin at Calvin easily. Hope had two more gears and could have won easily by more. Calvin simply can't compete and there was no comparison. Calvin lacks athleticism, lacks shooters, lacks ball-handlers, lacks speed and lacks passion. Very painful brand of basketball to watch including terrible shot selection - both Denney & Wilks look to shoot every time they touch it and the guards were completely overmatched. Other than Wolterink on JV, there is very little talent at the JV level either. Tough to win against any good teams with very little talent. Not sure Coach K could win with these players - clearly Coach KVS cannot.

HK

To clarify, the Hope varsity won easily, but the JV game went into overtime so I wouldn't say that Hope's second squad won easily. With regard to who is the best player on Calvin's JV team, I believe it's Alex Bos, not Wolterink, though I admit, reasonable people could differ on that.

As for Wilks, I think he should shoot more. He's Calvin's most reliable scorer so I don't know why he should shoot less.

Agree on JV game that it was close but ended in a 10 point OT loss for Calvin as Zandstra scored 10 of his 22 in OT to seal the victory for Hope.

Keep in mind that a ten-point outcome in overtime is still a closer game than a one-point outcome in regulation. The word "easily" should never be used to describe an overtime win.

I watched almost the entire game and there was very little separation. The game was tied at half and both teams held small second half leads before Alex Bos tossed in a game tying hoop with 8 ticks left in regulation when it seemed obvious he was fouled, but didn't get the call. If Bos is given an opportunity to complete a three-point play, that ten point overtime loss could be a Calvin one-point win. I guess one could say that Hope easily won the five minute overtime session.

[Gregory Sager]

KVS is the only coach at Calvin who's only job is to coach. Yes he's the "facilities manager" but if your only true responsibility is to produce a winning team, you would think something as valuable as recruiting would be something that would be focused on. Unfortunately, outside of alumni families, KVS makes no effort to get students from outside of western Michigan unless they approach the program first whereas teams like volleyball produce a winning product by making the only boundary line that of faith and hard work. KVS assumed for too long that he was going to keep getting good players from schools like GRCHS and Calvin and now those players go elsewhere because the product on Calvins court just isn't that great and they hear about 5 contributing players over the past 2 years just walking away. Why do you think players like Josh Engelsma, Bryan Van Harn, heck, even Brent Schuster (who later came back) and now players like Vanderbrug walk away? I can tell you, it isn't because the pressures of D3 ball are that excruciating. And those are the things high school players are hearing about that sway whether they want to play at Calvin. When I was at Calvin, the running joke was that you could put together a team of guys from the dorms that would beat the varsity by 20. The sad part is that it wasn't completely a joke, it was more truthful than anything. But none of those guys wanted to be a part of the program.

This is absolutely not true. Kevin Vande Streek teaches two to three classes a semester besides being coach. I know this because I have talked extensively about it including on Hoopsville. The reason Jeff Ross stepped aside from women's basketball was that coaching WBB, and tennis, and teaching two to three classes was getting to be too much. On top of it all, Vande Streek does not have any full-time assistant, thus this year is interesting because Vande Streek is also the men's committee chair. Calvin was nice enough to shift the classes Vande Streek teaches - adding one in the first semester (meaning three to four classes) and removing one in the second (down to two or one) so he could have more time to the team and his NCAA responsibilities (he is well enough respected by his peers who wanted him to be chair of the committee this year - his final year on the committee).

Furthermore, the shift to coaches not teaching is only recent. If you listen to my interview with Chuck Winkelman he discusses this change and the fact that he and a few of the newer hires are no longer required to teach. That there is now a concerted effort to split the kinesiology teaching side from the coaching/athletics side to give coaches more time to focus on their teams. However, it is not something they are doing across the board. Best I can tell, they are only doing this for new hires. Anyone else is still "grandfathered" into the old standard of coaching and teaching. Prior to the new hires, ALL coaches had to teach at the same time. No exceptions that I am aware of.

I am sure people would like to criticize coaches because they don't live up to whatever expectations you have for them, but let's make sure we have the facts straight before we accused someone like Kevin Vande Streek for only being responsible to coach. That isn't accurate in any way, shape, or form.

Here is Vande Streek's page on the Calvin academic site: https://calvin.edu/directory/people/kevin-vande-streek. Feel free to look at the details of what he has done at Calvin academically.

If you want links to the Hoopsville interviews where this is discussed, I am happy to source those as well.

Let me also add it must be nice to have a bar as high as Calvin's apparently is that a few challenging seasons (one season below .500 in how many years?) can be considered bad. My alma mater hasn't had a winning season in 11+ seasons on the men's side and only had three 10+ win seasons on the women's side since I got there in 1995. While I am sure the argument back will be, "we expect better because we are better," I will contend that this is more about the student-athlete experience... or more importantly about the student's experience. Sometimes Ws and Ls need to take a back seat even if for just a short period of time. Calvin men's basketball has been to more final fours and championship games than some Division III programs will ever experience in their entire athletics history.

This is a very informative post, D-Mac. While what I said before about a coach's primary responsibility being recruiting remains true, the facts that Kevin Vande Streek lacks a full-time assistant and is tied down to the campus by teaching responsibilities (teaching is not only a time commitment, it's a location commitment as well, unless your school allows you to teach your classes online) help to explain why he's not getting players from outside of a limited radius around Grand Rapids.

Some of us think he should concentrate on his primary job, and drop the extracurricular activities if 10-15 seasons are the result.

You say that as if those "extracurricular activities" are entirely his choice. Perhaps the NCAA committee chair position is elective on his part, but I wouldn't even go so far as to say that without further information that it is indeed the case; he may be under pressure to take on that extracurricular activity from the AD or the Calvin administration because it benefits the college to have a coach show the flag for Calvin by holding such an esteemed and influential national position in his or her sport. I know enough about how organizations work to know that "volunteer" positions on national boards and committees aren't always voluntary in terms of how that person's own organization views it.

As for his teaching duties and his facilities manager position, those strike me as "extracurricular activities" that are considered mandatory by Calvin College and are a part of his contract. He probably can't drop them whether he wants to or not unless the college gives him permission to do so.

[Knight2Day]

Thanks to Dave McHugh for offering an accurate report on VandeStreek's responsibilities. I knew the accusation that he was only facilities manager in addition to head coach was untrue the moment I read it, so your detailed correction saved me the time of looking up and detailing KVS's job obligations at Calvin (and with the NCAA). He may not be a perfect coach, but the implied accusation that Calvin's coach is a slacker damages K2D's credibility when he makes a criticism. Let me add that KVS also stepped in and took over the Calvin softball program last April when their head coach got dismissed mid-season.

Ah rats, my credibility is damaged on D3Boards. What will I ever do?!

[Flying Dutch Fan]

This is a very informative post, D-Mac. While what I said before about a coach's primary responsibility being recruiting remains true, the facts that Kevin Vande Streek lacks a full-time assistant and is tied down to the campus by teaching responsibilities (teaching is not only a time commitment, it's a location commitment as well, unless your school allows you to teach your classes online) help to explain why he's not getting players from outside of a limited radius around Grand Rapids.

I believe the same can be said for every basketball program in the MIAA

[almcguirejr]

Well, I sure hope he (KVS) does a better job in all his other responsibilities than he does on his primary one as men's basketball coach.
Perhaps Wed. night's defeat to Hope can be placed on his being "preoccupied" with his other responsibilities.  His NCAA duties must have clouded his thinking when he pulled 3 starters with a 12-6 lead which. using his own word, "unraveled".  Some of us think he should concentrate on his primary job, and drop the extracurricular activities if 10-15 seasons are the result.

Yes, Calvin has set the bar very high.  President Le Roy has repeatedly said that he expects "excellence" in all areas of campus life.  He expects excellence in the class room, as well as on the playing field or court.  Most coaches would kill for the physical plant, and all the other things that Calvin has to offer potential student athletes.  16-12, 13-13, and 10-15 may be excellent where you are from, but not so much here.

It is John Ross, not Jeff.  Since you are big on facts.

If you listened to KVS's post game radio "interview" you would have understood what he meant by "unraveled."  He said in the interview; "we talked in practice for 2 days about slowing it down. We said we would rather have a 30 second violation than a quick shot than give Hope the ball in transition." He went on to say "Hope scores about 80% of the time in transition."  He was screaming at the players to slow down, run through some offense, don't take a quick shot.  He called a time out just under 5 minutes to talk about it after a bad possession.  It was stressed again at the 3:08 media timeout.
Hope's pressure and Calvin's lack of poise (unraveled) in the last 2:46 of the first half created a deficit Calvin wasn't coming back from.

[oldknight]

Thanks to Dave McHugh for offering an accurate report on VandeStreek's responsibilities. I knew the accusation that he was only facilities manager in addition to head coach was untrue the moment I read it, so your detailed correction saved me the time of looking up and detailing KVS's job obligations at Calvin (and with the NCAA). He may not be a perfect coach, but the implied accusation that Calvin's coach is a slacker damages K2D's credibility when he makes a criticism. Let me add that KVS also stepped in and took over the Calvin softball program last April when their head coach got dismissed mid-season.

Ah rats, my credibility is damaged on D3Boards. What will I ever do?!

Author higher quality posts?

[sac]

"Hope scores about 80% of the time in transition."

I really hope he means 80% of the time Hope gets into transition they score, which might be true.  Otherwise, 80% is a huge exaggeration.  This is actually one of Hope's best half-court offensive teams I think.

[almcguirejr]

"Hope scores about 80% of the time in transition."

I really hope he means 80% of the time Hope gets into transition they score, which might be true.  Otherwise, 80% is a huge exaggeration.  This is actually one of Hope's best half-court offensive teams I think.

Yes! This is what I meant to say. 

[realist]

Well, I sure hope he (KVS) does a better job in all his other responsibilities than he does on his primary one as men's basketball coach.
Perhaps Wed. night's defeat to Hope can be placed on his being "preoccupied" with his other responsibilities.  His NCAA duties must have clouded his thinking when he pulled 3 starters with a 12-6 lead which. using his own word, "unraveled".  Some of us think he should concentrate on his primary job, and drop the extracurricular activities if 10-15 seasons are the result.

Yes, Calvin has set the bar very high.  President Le Roy has repeatedly said that he expects "excellence" in all areas of campus life.  He expects excellence in the class room, as well as on the playing field or court.  Most coaches would kill for the physical plant, and all the other things that Calvin has to offer potential student athletes.  16-12, 13-13, and 10-15 may be excellent where you are from, but not so much here.

It is John Ross, not Jeff.  Since you are big on facts.

If you listened to KVS's post game radio "interview" you would have understood what he meant by "unraveled."  He said in the interview; "we talked in practice for 2 days about slowing it down. We said we would rather have a 30 second violation than a quick shot than give Hope the ball in transition." He went on to say "Hope scores about 80% of the time in transition."  He was screaming at the players to slow down, run through some offense, don't take a quick shot.  He called a time out just under 5 minutes to talk about it after a bad possession.  It was stressed again at the 3:08 media timeout.
Hope's pressure and Calvin's lack of poise (unraveled) in the last 2:46 of the first half created a deficit Calvin wasn't coming back from.

KVS made the "unraveled" remark in his comments at half time in the broadcast.  Long ago I gave up listening to his post game comments.  I have found them to be much like his typical game plan in that they all sound eerily familiar like a closed loop tape or "Groundhog Day".   
FWIW the game was lost long before the last 2:46 of the first half.  I felt the game was over in the few minutes after the 15:05 TV time out (Calvin 12 Hope 6).  You may recall that Hope then ran off 10 straight points to go up 16 - 12, and finally another TV time out occurred @ 11:55.  Hope made adjustments during that 15:05 time out to not only stop the bleeding, but took Calvin right out of the game.     Not taking a time out during that Hope run only set the stage for what happened after 2:46. 
This scenario of letting a lead get taken away has happened often enough over the last 20+ seasons that you would think the brain trust would recognize it, and respond then instead of lamenting it in the post game comments.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Well, I sure hope he (KVS) does a better job in all his other responsibilities than he does on his primary one as men's basketball coach.
Perhaps Wed. night's defeat to Hope can be placed on his being "preoccupied" with his other responsibilities.  His NCAA duties must have clouded his thinking when he pulled 3 starters with a 12-6 lead which. using his own word, "unraveled".  Some of us think he should concentrate on his primary job, and drop the extracurricular activities if 10-15 seasons are the result.

Yes, Calvin has set the bar very high.  President Le Roy has repeatedly said that he expects "excellence" in all areas of campus life.  He expects excellence in the class room, as well as on the playing field or court.  Most coaches would kill for the physical plant, and all the other things that Calvin has to offer potential student athletes.  16-12, 13-13, and 10-15 may be excellent where you are from, but not so much here.

It is John Ross, not Jeff.  Since you are big on facts.

So sorry I misstated the former women's coaches name... I am sure you can understand with the number of coaches names in my head where I might make the mistake, right?

And by the way, I'm pretty sure he wasn't thinking about SOS numbers when coaching his team. He had 3 20+ win seasons when basically doing the same job. Two of those 20+ win seasons he was on the national committee and one he was on the regional committee. I have had a lot of coaches tell me it is a lot of work, but that they make sure their coaching is not affected. I know Kevin Vande Streek doesn't want this job to affect him and his coaching, thus why the school made arrangements to help him. All you have to do is look at the women's side of the equation to notice that more than half of the committee had to be off the call for selections and bracketing because they had successful teams. Being on the committee and it affecting a team is not a correlation that has added up.

And Sager makes another good point about the rest... I know for a fact that his coaching brethren wanted him to chair this year. You don't have that request unless you are respected by your peers and you wouldn't be in that position if you weren't respected by your institution.

[realist]

Well, I sure hope he (KVS) does a better job in all his other responsibilities than he does on his primary one as men's basketball coach.
Perhaps Wed. night's defeat to Hope can be placed on his being "preoccupied" with his other responsibilities.  His NCAA duties must have clouded his thinking when he pulled 3 starters with a 12-6 lead which. using his own word, "unraveled".  Some of us think he should concentrate on his primary job, and drop the extracurricular activities if 10-15 seasons are the result.

Yes, Calvin has set the bar very high.  President Le Roy has repeatedly said that he expects "excellence" in all areas of campus life.  He expects excellence in the class room, as well as on the playing field or court.  Most coaches would kill for the physical plant, and all the other things that Calvin has to offer potential student athletes.  16-12, 13-13, and 10-15 may be excellent where you are from, but not so much here.

It is John Ross, not Jeff.  Since you are big on facts.

So sorry I misstated the former women's coaches name... I am sure you can understand with the number of coaches names in my head where I might make the mistake, right?

And by the way, I'm pretty sure he wasn't thinking about SOS numbers when coaching his team. He had 3 20+ win seasons when basically doing the same job. Two of those 20+ win seasons he was on the national committee and one he was on the regional committee. I have had a lot of coaches tell me it is a lot of work, but that they make sure their coaching is not affected. I know Kevin Vande Streek doesn't want this job to affect him and his coaching, thus why the school made arrangements to help him. All you have to do is look at the women's side of the equation to notice that more than half of the committee had to be off the call for selections and bracketing because they had successful teams. Being on the committee and it affecting a team is not a correlation that has added up.

And Sager makes another good point about the rest... I know for a fact that his coaching brethren wanted him to chair this year. You don't have that request unless you are respected by your peers and you wouldn't be in that position if you weren't respected by your institution.

As a Calvin fan I would prefer the 20+ win "successful team" seasons. 

[ziggy]

Thanks to Dave McHugh for offering an accurate report on VandeStreek's responsibilities. I knew the accusation that he was only facilities manager in addition to head coach was untrue the moment I read it, so your detailed correction saved me the time of looking up and detailing KVS's job obligations at Calvin (and with the NCAA). He may not be a perfect coach, but the implied accusation that Calvin's coach is a slacker damages K2D's credibility when he makes a criticism. Let me add that KVS also stepped in and took over the Calvin softball program last April when their head coach got dismissed mid-season.

Ah rats, my credibility is damaged on D3Boards. What will I ever do?!

I don't know, is there a message board for disgruntled former message board posters?

[sac]

Thanks to Dave McHugh for offering an accurate report on VandeStreek's responsibilities. I knew the accusation that he was only facilities manager in addition to head coach was untrue the moment I read it, so your detailed correction saved me the time of looking up and detailing KVS's job obligations at Calvin (and with the NCAA). He may not be a perfect coach, but the implied accusation that Calvin's coach is a slacker damages K2D's credibility when he makes a criticism. Let me add that KVS also stepped in and took over the Calvin softball program last April when their head coach got dismissed mid-season.

Ah rats, my credibility is damaged on D3Boards. What will I ever do?!

I don't know, is there a message board for disgruntled former message board posters?

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