MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[oldknight]

Looks to me like the clock and backboard are not synced at Kalamazoo. The shot was in his hand when the backboard light went off, but there was still 0.1 remaining on the clock. When the clock goes to 0.0, the ball is out of his hand. The clock is obviously official so I'd say the shot counts, but who knows. Wild finish.

That explains a lot to me.  I was looking at the shot with the light around the backboard showing apparently that the game was over, and the ball was still in the players hand.  So I was puzzled that there was no argument and everyone seemed to accept the call.  You are right that the clock is official.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "there was no argument and everyone seemed to accept the call." The entire Calvin coaching staff (and some fans who will go nameless) were waving their hands in a futile effort to convince the ref it was no basket. In the end though, I think everyone knew it was so close that you can't expect the official to bail you out. If they had ruled it no basket, Kalamazoo would feel the same way the Calvin side did.

[Bulldog30]

Disappointing loss for Adrian against Olivet. I haven't watched the game yet (it is now posted on YouTube), but I looked at the stats and I heard from someone at the game (who I trust with their knowledge) that the refs were very poor (on both sides) in that game. Adrian is still in a good position, especially with Olivet yet to play @Hope and vs. Calvin. But man, 2 game lead would be real nice. Ugh.

Adrian holds Olivet to 38/10.5% on their FG/3Pt shooting, but allow 15 Offensive rebounds and Olivet overall outrebounded them 44 to 29. This stands out the most in Adrian's loss. Played great defense but allowed far too many 2nd chance points.

Adrian's starting guards shoot 5 for 17 from the field and 3 of 10 from 3. It's not terrible, but not good either.

Adrian has very little bench. Curious how long they can keep a 7 man rotation and not break down later in the year. And if someone gets injured, that would be a big problem.

Am I being too tough on Justin Webster by asking him to shoot his FT's better? He went 6 of 11 against Olivet, which obviously hurt, but he's been around 70% this year which is isn't bad. But, he gets to the line a lot due to his physical play, so his missed FT's stand out more. Overall on the year, Adrian is the 6th best FT shooting team in the league, yet, and I'm sure Coach Lindsay has his reasons, but Adrian doesn't put anyone in on their free throws. As a rebounder myself, this drives me nuts. You got to think if you shoot around 25 free throws, a couple misses might come your way and be an extra possession or 2.

Based on the games I've seen and the results, what a tightly packed league this year. No stand outs and 4 teams capable of winning this league (Calvin's not winning it this year, right?)

Adrian can't have any letdowns @Alma and vs Kalamazoo.

[shknowsbest]

If Calvin puts token pressure in the back court and makes the pg burn some time, the tip in is moot.  Amoros is 6" shorter than the kzoo pg, he is not going to be able to contest the shot.  Anyways, the game should of not come down to it.  Hopefully they will bounce back on saturday.

[sac]

Disappointing loss for Adrian against Olivet. I haven't watched the game yet (it is now posted on YouTube), but I looked at the stats and I heard from someone at the game (who I trust with their knowledge) that the refs were very poor (on both sides) in that game. Adrian is still in a good position, especially with Olivet yet to play @Hope and vs. Calvin. But man, 2 game lead would be real nice. Ugh.

Always interesting how people view this differently, I thought they were excellent.     Both teams attacked the basket ferociously, that's going to draw a lot of contact and consequently fouls.

Am I being too tough on Justin Webster by asking him to shoot his FT's better? He went 6 of 11 against Olivet, which obviously hurt, but he's been around 70% this year which is isn't bad. But, he gets to the line a lot due to his physical play, so his missed FT's stand out more. Overall on the year, Adrian is the 6th best FT shooting team in the league, yet, and I'm sure Coach Lindsay has his reasons, but Adrian doesn't put anyone in on their free throws. As a rebounder myself, this drives me nuts. You got to think if you shoot around 25 free throws, a couple misses might come your way and be an extra possession or 2.

One thing I noticed in the last two games I've seen is Adrian putting Webster on a guard.  He picked up Hawkins a bit Saturday, and had Jalen Adams a lot last night.  Maybe thats a product of switches and sticking with it but surely that has to wear down  Webster as the game goes on.  He looked exhausted towards the end of the game.

I don't get the no rebounders on ft's either

[Gregory Sager]

the final Kzoo shot from the twitterverse
https://twitter.com/MikeWWMT/status/953813776561680384

and opposite side of court from the twitterverse
https://twitter.com/khornets/status/953819571668086786

I paused it a couple times, its pretty tight.  You'd need a closer camera and better control of pause/fwd/rw to really tell.

Going frame by frame on that first video. The ball is still in his hand as the backboard lit up...however, the scoreboard still had .1 seconds on it. As the clock hit 0.0 the ball was out of his hand. Either way, we're talking milliseconds here. Not sure what the official ruling is on using the backboard or scoreboard as the official timekeeper in these situations (shouldn't they sync?)

I don't think that the ball is necessarily still in his hand. Given the angle of the screen shot, it's impossible to see the point of contact between hand and ball, if indeed there is one, because his hand is on the other side of the ball.

I would like to see someone capture a screen grab of the exact same moment, only this time taken from the opposite side (i.e., the Twitter version from @khornets). That might not clear it up, either, but at least there would be two angles to look at rather than just one.

I've watched both Twitter replays several times, and each time it appeared to me that he got off the shot in time. But, given how close it was, I can easily perceive how some people see it the way Chuck did -- six viewings, three times it appears one way and three times it appears the other.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

the final Kzoo shot from the twitterverse
https://twitter.com/MikeWWMT/status/953813776561680384

and opposite side of court from the twitterverse
https://twitter.com/khornets/status/953819571668086786

I paused it a couple times, its pretty tight.  You'd need a closer camera and better control of pause/fwd/rw to really tell.

Going frame by frame on that first video. The ball is still in his hand as the backboard lit up...however, the scoreboard still had .1 seconds on it. As the clock hit 0.0 the ball was out of his hand. Either way, we're talking milliseconds here. Not sure what the official ruling is on using the backboard or scoreboard as the official timekeeper in these situations (shouldn't they sync?)

I don't think that the ball is necessarily still in his hand. Given the angle of the screen shot, it's impossible to see the point of contact between hand and ball, if indeed there is one, because his hand is on the other side of the ball.

I would like to see someone capture a screen grab of the exact same moment, only this time taken from the opposite side (i.e., the Twitter version from @khornets). That might not clear it up, either, but at least there would be two angles to look at rather than just one.

I've watched both Twitter replays several times, and each time it appeared to me that he got off the shot in time. But, given how close it was, I can easily perceive how some people see it the way Chuck did -- six viewings, three times it appears one way and three times it appears the other.

If you go frame by frame on the twitter video, it looks like he's still touching it when the light goes off - not sure how you'd ever be able to tell that. Also not so sure what the frame rate is for twitter video.

[sac]

It's time. For w Calvin coach to go. Away.

So, if the Kazoo game-winning shot had been ruled late, according to the backboard light (and the refs had eyes calibrated to the millisecond) coach VS could stay? 

[sflzman]

the final Kzoo shot from the twitterverse
https://twitter.com/MikeWWMT/status/953813776561680384

and opposite side of court from the twitterverse
https://twitter.com/khornets/status/953819571668086786

I paused it a couple times, its pretty tight.  You'd need a closer camera and better control of pause/fwd/rw to really tell.

Going frame by frame on that first video. The ball is still in his hand as the backboard lit up...however, the scoreboard still had .1 seconds on it. As the clock hit 0.0 the ball was out of his hand. Either way, we're talking milliseconds here. Not sure what the official ruling is on using the backboard or scoreboard as the official timekeeper in these situations (shouldn't they sync?)

I don't think that the ball is necessarily still in his hand. Given the angle of the screen shot, it's impossible to see the point of contact between hand and ball, if indeed there is one, because his hand is on the other side of the ball.

I would like to see someone capture a screen grab of the exact same moment, only this time taken from the opposite side (i.e., the Twitter version from @khornets). That might not clear it up, either, but at least there would be two angles to look at rather than just one.

I've watched both Twitter replays several times, and each time it appeared to me that he got off the shot in time. But, given how close it was, I can easily perceive how some people see it the way Chuck did -- six viewings, three times it appears one way and three times it appears the other.

I don't think this angle would offer enough to determine if there is contact being made either

[KnightSlappy]

As we continue to Zapruder the film, here's a better quality video:

https://livestream.com/KalamazooCollege/events/8016166/videos/168731190

There are two frames with the backboard lights on and the scoreboard showing 0.1. The next frame shows 0.0 and the ball clearly out of the hand.

I think the ball is clearly in his hand in the first frame because it's still moving upward in the second frame.

I'd say he clearly beats the clock in all cases, even if the officials should have been working off the red lights. Strange that they're out of sync. I'm not sure how common that is.

The basket counting is most in keeping with the spirit of the rules, so I'm good with that. Between this play and the Dennis Towns bank-in, the window hasn't been kind to Calvin this conference season.

[Gregory Sager]

the final Kzoo shot from the twitterverse
https://twitter.com/MikeWWMT/status/953813776561680384

and opposite side of court from the twitterverse
https://twitter.com/khornets/status/953819571668086786

I paused it a couple times, its pretty tight.  You'd need a closer camera and better control of pause/fwd/rw to really tell.

Going frame by frame on that first video. The ball is still in his hand as the backboard lit up...however, the scoreboard still had .1 seconds on it. As the clock hit 0.0 the ball was out of his hand. Either way, we're talking milliseconds here. Not sure what the official ruling is on using the backboard or scoreboard as the official timekeeper in these situations (shouldn't they sync?)

I don't think that the ball is necessarily still in his hand. Given the angle of the screen shot, it's impossible to see the point of contact between hand and ball, if indeed there is one, because his hand is on the other side of the ball.

I would like to see someone capture a screen grab of the exact same moment, only this time taken from the opposite side (i.e., the Twitter version from @khornets). That might not clear it up, either, but at least there would be two angles to look at rather than just one.

I've watched both Twitter replays several times, and each time it appeared to me that he got off the shot in time. But, given how close it was, I can easily perceive how some people see it the way Chuck did -- six viewings, three times it appears one way and three times it appears the other.

I don't think this angle would offer enough to determine if there is contact being made either

Yeah, and that's what I was afraid would be the case. It appears that the only definitive angle for a referee would've been from the baseline and off to the right of Paprocki. Unfortunately, the baseline ref was on the other side of the stanchion, so nobody was in a position to see if there was separation between Paprocki's hand and the ball when the scoreboard lit up.

[CK150408]

Depends on what you mean by "pick up the pg" because if you mean by that comment that Calvin should be "dogging the ball-handler up-and-down the court" then your comment is accurate. By "pick up the pg" I understood you to mean that Calvin should have contested the in-bounds pass which is precisely what the Knights did. One thing you don't want to do late in a game you're leading by a point is to foul the ball-handler before he ever gets in scoring range and put him at the line to win it there. So I think it would have been foolish for Canonie to hotly defend the ball handler when he was still at mid-court. I was at the game and I think Calvin defended the final 11 seconds properly and see no reason to criticize what the Knights did there. It was just their bad luck that the miss was so far off the mark that Paprocki was able to get an easy put-back with enough time (barely) for it to count. If the ball had caught iron, Calvin wins. I don't even criticize Calvin for not being able to contest the put-back. Your defenders can't be everywhere and they still only allow five of them on the floor at the same time. 

I wouldn't criticize, I was just a bit disappointed there wasn't a bit more urgency in crashing the boards because if they were playing good def, which for the most part they did, they wouldn't know if there was .5 or 1.5 sec left and everything should be done to make sure Kalamazoo doesn't get a clean rebound.

I would like some opinions though...does anyone out here think the wholesale off/def subs disrupt some of the flow and momentum of the team. I feel like a lot of guys use energy off one end of the floor to propel their play on the other.

Also, am I wrong in thinking Walters would have been a good option at the end considering his shot blocking and rebounding games recently?

[TUAngola]

Trine news FWIW:

Trine roster keeps getting thinner and thinner as the year goes on as starting freshman PG Jalen Paul is no longer listed on the roster at trinethunder.com.  I didn't really think much of it when I noticed he wasn't dressed for the Albion game last night.  Guess I was assuming he was out injured or with the flu bug that has been going around.  We are down to 10 varsity players not including 2 JV guys who dress too.  His departure won't be noticed as much with the emergence of guard Marcus Winters who joined the squad in late December after a stellar Junior year on the football team; MIAA defensive player of the year and 2nd team D3 All American at CB.  Marcus has continued to get more playing time and had a really outstanding game last night with 17pts, 7reb, and 4asst.  Just wonder what is causing guys to leave the program midyear.  It's usually after the season when guys think about transferring.   

[arena]

It's time. For w Calvin coach to go. Away.

So, if the Kazoo game-winning shot had been ruled late, according to the backboard light (and the refs had eyes calibrated to the millisecond) coach VS could stay? 

no. Calvin needs a replacement. I have been consistent for years. Time to go.

[oldknight]

Depends on what you mean by "pick up the pg" because if you mean by that comment that Calvin should be "dogging the ball-handler up-and-down the court" then your comment is accurate. By "pick up the pg" I understood you to mean that Calvin should have contested the in-bounds pass which is precisely what the Knights did. One thing you don't want to do late in a game you're leading by a point is to foul the ball-handler before he ever gets in scoring range and put him at the line to win it there. So I think it would have been foolish for Canonie to hotly defend the ball handler when he was still at mid-court. I was at the game and I think Calvin defended the final 11 seconds properly and see no reason to criticize what the Knights did there. It was just their bad luck that the miss was so far off the mark that Paprocki was able to get an easy put-back with enough time (barely) for it to count. If the ball had caught iron, Calvin wins. I don't even criticize Calvin for not being able to contest the put-back. Your defenders can't be everywhere and they still only allow five of them on the floor at the same time. 

I wouldn't criticize, I was just a bit disappointed there wasn't a bit more urgency in crashing the boards because if they were playing good def, which for the most part they did, they wouldn't know if there was .5 or 1.5 sec left and everything should be done to make sure Kalamazoo doesn't get a clean rebound.

I would like some opinions though...does anyone out here think the wholesale off/def subs disrupt some of the flow and momentum of the team. I feel like a lot of guys use energy off one end of the floor to propel their play on the other.

Also, am I wrong in thinking Walters would have been a good option at the end considering his shot blocking and rebounding games recently?

No, you're not wrong. That's the best comment/question anyone has raised about the last 11 seconds of last night's game.

[oldknight]

As we continue to Zapruder the film, here's a better quality video:

https://livestream.com/KalamazooCollege/events/8016166/videos/168731190

There are two frames with the backboard lights on and the scoreboard showing 0.1. The next frame shows 0.0 and the ball clearly out of the hand.

I think the ball is clearly in his hand in the first frame because it's still moving upward in the second frame.

I'd say he clearly beats the clock in all cases, even if the officials should have been working off the red lights. Strange that they're out of sync. I'm not sure how common that is.

The basket counting is most in keeping with the spirit of the rules, so I'm good with that. Between this play and the Dennis Towns bank-in, the window hasn't been kind to Calvin this conference season.

It has been 54 years and 57 days since a younger, smaller version of Oldknight--on a cloudy, unusually warm Friday late November afternoon--ran the entire block-and-a-half from Oakdale Christian School to his home on Alexander Street to tell his mother what she already knew: the president was dead. We're still looking for the guy behind the grassy knoll and now I see KnightSlappy has turned Abraham Zapruder's surname into a verb.