MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

JV players also become student assistants, grad assistants, coaches, trainers etc. if they don't become varsity contributors.  Some schools I would say value JV as part of the educational experience.  Others either don't or don't have the adequate numbers to make it work consistently.

Having adequate numbers has been the issue for schools in recent seasons.  JV seems to be in a decline, though it feels like it bottomed a few years ago.  Then this year happened.

[TUAngola]

I wonder if MIAA men's jv coaches and players are feeling frustrated to have games cancelled--and to be left with a diminished schedule.

The Hope jv team, for example, ended up with games cancelled last Wednesday against Adrian, and this Wednesday against Olivet--both of which were able to field teams earlier this year . . . but apparently have had recent attrition?

But then the Hope women's jv team has it worse, with only 13 scheduled games this whole season--three against Calvin.

Are such problems with schools fielding jv teams longstanding or recent?

So this is the 2nd year in a row that Adrian had a JV team for only part of the year, and that may have occurred further back as well.  Olivet had a team but when they played at Hope earlier in the season it was with 6 guys (one from the varsity) - Adrian's squad was similar maybe 6-7 guys.  All it takes is an injury or two or other factors and suddenly you can no longer play.  It's a shame, because I'm a firm believer in the great things a good JV program can do to prepare players for the college varsity game.

I feel like it's unsurprising that a Hope fan (or Calvin fan) would find the significance in JV basketball. And I don't think it is without merit, but perhaps smaller schools have a different view.

In my time at Adrian, very few participants from our JV teams made an impact on the Varsity. A couple (2 or 3?) made it into a few games, but not many minutes. When Adrian was struggling from 2006 to 2010, a couple JV players I knew had more important roles, but the struggling team could be a reason. I should note that I do not know if JV players made bigger impacts before my time there.

Also, 2 questions: 1. Does school size make the big difference in JV? And connected, 2. Do Hope, Calvin, and Trine dominate JV MIAA basketball? Hope, Calvin, and Trine all have over 3,000 students. Adrian has around 1700, I think. And because I'm an Adrian alum, I know basketball is competing with a lot of strong sports there as well (Hockey, Bass Fishing, Baseball and more). Perhaps bigger schools have a better time finding diamonds in the rough in a bigger pool of athletes.

I am fairly certain that Trine rarely if ever has had a player from the JV make an impact on Varsity.  At Trine if you're good enough as a Freshman you'll be on the Varsity squad.  My knowledge of Trine JV basketball is extremely limited however.  I've only watched one JV game this year and was actually against Adrian in January at the MTI Center.  Adrian won fairly easily, 10 pts or so.  Other than 2 guys on the end of Trine's Varsity roster who play JV as well, the rest of the guys reminded me of an intermural team, not much execution, just streetball.  I did not see one player on the JV who I thought to myself, hmm I can't wait to see him play on the Varsity.  Like other Calvin and Hope posters have mentioned, their JV programs are geared a lot differently, more of a developmental situation, of course their numbers are much greater too.  Yes Trine's enrollment has grown steadily over the past 10 years, but this hasn't yet made a difference in JV men's or JV women's basketball "grooming" of players for the Varsity.   

Just wanted to add I think Hope and Calvin's rich basketball tradition is also a selling point for players considering their schools, whereas the rest of the MIAA doesn't have that.  So the kids Hope and Calvin get perhaps are more accepting of playing a year on JV to get a chance to play Varsity as a sophomore.  This would be a harder "sell" at say a Trine or Adrian without that rich tradition.  The coaches at these schools recruit kids probably with the idea of them all dressing Varsity right away.  But that may lead to more defections too, as incoming players realize they won't be playing much as the season plays out, they leave the program, which is what has happened a lot at Trine.   

[Mr. Ypsi]

I don't know how one gets such a 'tradition' started, but having a viable JV program can be a tremendous benefit to a program.  IWU has relied heavily on JV as 'the future'.  Keelan Amelianovich (who eventually made d3hoops.com's 'Team of the Decade') played exclusively JV as a freshman; as a sophomore he was the CCIW MOP!  (He was 'trapped' behind some extremely talented seniors at his position; if not for JV I'm not sure he would have even come to IWU.)

They are having more and more trouble scheduling games.  Used to be that nearly all the CCIW teams (and others) had JV, but they are increasingly having to schedule community college teams instead.  And they have always been lower priority - games get cancelled FAR more often than varsity games would be.  But if you can get a JV program up and running, it is WELL worth it.

[Gregory Sager]

I don't know how one gets such a 'tradition' started, but having a viable JV program can be a tremendous benefit to a program.  IWU has relied heavily on JV as 'the future'.  Keelan Amelianovich (who eventually made d3hoops.com's 'Team of the Decade') played exclusively JV as a freshman; as a sophomore he was the CCIW MOP!  (He was 'trapped' behind some extremely talented seniors at his position; if not for JV I'm not sure he would have even come to IWU.)

That's not the first time that you've said that about Amelianovich, Chuck, and it's no more true now than it was before. Amelianovich saw garbage minutes in 18 varsity games for IWU as a freshman.

They are having more and more trouble scheduling games.  Used to be that nearly all the CCIW teams (and others) had JV, but they are increasingly having to schedule community college teams instead.

Some coaches prefer to schedule jucos for their JV games rather than other JV teams. I know that that's the case at North Park, which has always played a lot of jucos on the JV side of things, going back nearly forty years when I watched my freshman classmates play Kankakee, Triton, Malcolm X, Oakton, etc., and probably even longer than that.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Greg, as to K.A., 'exclusively' is not technically correct, but I don't consider 'garbage minutes' to be playing varsity.

Community colleges (jucos) are a mostly recent phenomenon in downstate Illinois.  While things may well have changed since mastodons and Mr. Y roamed the IWU campus, I'm pretty sure that at least back then IWU would have greatly preferred other 4-year college JV teams - after all, that was 'scouting' their future, as well as being ours.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg, as to K.A., 'exclusively' is not technically correct, but I don't consider 'garbage minutes' to be playing varsity.

Technically, shmechnically. Whether you consider it "playing varsity" or not, he played in eighteen varsity games. That's not an insignificant number.

Community colleges (jucos) are a mostly recent phenomenon in downstate Illinois.  While things may well have changed since mastodons and Mr. Y roamed the IWU campus, I'm pretty sure that at least back then IWU would have greatly preferred other 4-year college JV teams - after all, that was 'scouting' their future, as well as being ours.

Your alma mater plays its fair share of JV games against jucos, as do Augie, Carthage, and Millikin, and the Chicagoland CCIW schools do so as well (I have no idea about Carroll). It is very convenient for travel purposes for the Chicagoland schools to schedule jucos, as they're thick on the ground in northeastern Illinois. A lot of programs want to play jucos for recruiting purposes as well, in a kill-two-birds-with-one-stone sort of way.

[Jameswys]

I'm the first one on the list for a ticket tonight!! 

[Bulldog30]

JV players also become student assistants, grad assistants, coaches, trainers etc. if they don't become varsity contributors.  Some schools I would say value JV as part of the educational experience.  Others either don't or don't have the adequate numbers to make it work consistently.

Having adequate numbers has been the issue for schools in recent seasons.  JV seems to be in a decline, though it feels like it bottomed a few years ago.  Then this year happened.

I think this is the best point I've heard about JV college basketball. I didn't think about this, and it is true. I think Adrian's coach Kyle Lindsey was a JV player for a year or two.

I also hope my lack of emphasis on JV basketball for some MIAA schools doesn't come off of getting rid of it. I don't want that. I just think TUAngola and I are coming from a biased perspective of being from schools that haven't had players from their JV's making large impacts on the Varsity teams. Other teams have had some impact, and therefore, different views on it. I also did not know and continue to not know when a viable Varsity player was a guy that came through the JV program.

I do wish Adrian (College) had the type of depth in the program that had young players get playing time at JV, and improve to the point of making a difference on Varsity. Since 3 to 5 players don't play much on the Adrian's Varsity team, can't those players play some JV games? Have they? I feel like a guy like Cortez Buckner, who has played a bit more in the past 4 or 5 games, could improve with a 30 minute game. There has been some guys he hasn't played at all this year, but he's still the 7th or 8th player on the team, and the guards could really use some pressure from the bench considering some of the inconsistent play from them.

[sac]

Honest but maybe unpopular opinion is that in the desire to field competitive programs or simply collect tuition payments, a few MIAA schools may be taking some kids who aren't academically or socially ready for college responsibilities.   Inevitably they end up losing kids through academic suspension or discipline.  And if you have a small number of kids anyway all it takes is an injury or two and all of the sudden having a team is in jeopardy.

Alternatively, many kids who would have stuck it out maybe 20 years ago and played JV now see their tuition bill minus financial aide and have to ask themselves the tough question.....is it worth it.  For some it probably isn't.


Also unpopular and this might be a "get off my lawn" rant, but there seem to be a higher number of kids today who expect to walk into a college program and start or play right away.  They don't get what they want, quit or leave.   Intramural legends they become.

[Jameswys]

Honest but maybe unpopular opinion is that in the desire to field competitive programs or simply collect tuition payments, a few MIAA schools may be taking some kids who aren't academically or socially ready for college responsibilities.   Inevitably they end up losing kids through academic suspension or discipline.  And if you have a small number of kids anyway all it takes is an injury or two and all of the sudden having a team is in jeopardy.

Alternatively, many kids who would have stuck it out maybe 20 years ago and played JV now see their tuition bill minus financial aide and have to ask themselves the tough question.....is it worth it.  For some it probably isn't.


Also unpopular and this might be a "get off my lawn" rant, but there seem to be a higher number of kids today who expect to walk into a college program and start or play right away.  They don't get what they want, quit or leave.   Intramural legends they become.

These two statements hit the nail on the head, and it's not just basketball but most MIAA sports. It's a known fact for us that the meal plan count drops noticeably from first to second semester and it is usually the result of male athletes leaving the school after football season.

And I don't think taking borderline kids is a problem only in the athletic department or in the MIAA. Nationwide admissions departments are tasked with increasing numbers at a time when we should be legitimately questioning whether or not large numbers of high school seniors should be looking at colleges or if trade schools and apprenticeship might not be a better choice.

[HOPEful]

...I know basketball is competing with a lot of strong sports there as well (Hockey, Bass Fishing, Baseball and more)...

Was this sincere or in jest? Collegiate bass fishing is something I'm very unfamiliar with. But I think it's awesome if it is actually a strong sport at Adrian.

http://adrianbulldogs.com/sports/fishing/2017-18/releases/20180117s3aef1

I love it. Between having 3 hockey teams and bass fishing as sports, Adrian's athletic department is just cool.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Week 2 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-second

[sac]

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-second

Well hello there.

[Gregory Sager]

Honest but maybe unpopular opinion is that in the desire to field competitive programs or simply collect tuition payments, a few MIAA schools may be taking some kids who aren't academically or socially ready for college responsibilities.   Inevitably they end up losing kids through academic suspension or discipline.  And if you have a small number of kids anyway all it takes is an injury or two and all of the sudden having a team is in jeopardy.

Alternatively, many kids who would have stuck it out maybe 20 years ago and played JV now see their tuition bill minus financial aide and have to ask themselves the tough question.....is it worth it.  For some it probably isn't.


Also unpopular and this might be a "get off my lawn" rant, but there seem to be a higher number of kids today who expect to walk into a college program and start or play right away.  They don't get what they want, quit or leave.   Intramural legends they become.

All three of sac's points are spot-on.

[wiz]

Ironic how many schools are having difficulty fielding JV teams during a year in which Calvin is actually sporting two JV teams.  Tonight one of the teams will play at 5:15 and the other at 7:30.  Would be fun if they can both get a W tonight.