MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

I'm expecting that KS will spout off about KVS win % and how players loved him like he somehow was in the know when he was getting picked last for intramurals and trying to find a way to sit near the scorers table at games, wiz will make a comment about me being an ass, sac will talk about the parody in the MIAA and how this is the best league we've seen all the while wearing his Hope undies, and the hope fans will talk about overinflated expectations (we get it, you love KVS bexause you win against him).

Parody, yes that's what I'm hoping this is.


I've asked at least once probably twice or more to be left out of your personal diatribes.  There's no need to include me here I get it, you have no ability to reason or be thought provoking in your posts or any willingness to step outside your bubble and see that things aren't the way they used to be.  I haven't singled you out here that I'm aware of, or "called you out" in one of my posts as the kids call it.   If I have apologies for getting older and not remembering things.  This kind of stuff gets tiring after awhile.

And just to straighten out my thoughts on the leagues parity.  I think the league probably had its best parity 1 thru 7 its ever had, that does not in any way mean I think this is the best the league has ever been.

I guess I never have understood why you care so much what Calvin fans think of KVS since, you know, you're not a Calvin fan?

Well for one thing I don't, I've posted very little about Calvin for going on 2 or 3 years now.   I really never have posted much about Calvin or KVS for going on, I don't know is it 10 years since the whiney complaints that have overridden this board in tough years appeared.

Three things bother me the most about this whole subject.  Zero credit is ever given to other programs for making themselves better and more competitive.   Expectations are never dialed down a notch or two when Calvin loses a key player to injury or suffers heavy graduation, thats ludicrous.  And finally being singled out in these ridiculous posts when I've barely said a word about it.

[HupHolland]

I think you Calvin fans have the right to be angry. Your college is one of the top D3 schools in the country with multiple connections all over the nation. Yet KVS just lacks motivation* To go out and get good basketball players. Those close to the Hope program are always worried someone with passion and vision will take over at Calvin and finally realize this. But At this point, If you were a basketball recruit, would you rather play for the old boys club in a quiet Van Noord arena or somewhere else? This seems very much like the Dean Kreps situation and Hope Football

*It has gotten to the point where John Ross is now recruiting for the Men's team

[bballfan13]

Knight2Day, Taking shots at other coaches at Calvin and other people on this board are not the way to go about this. Please have some dignity on the posts so you don't create a worse image for the other Calvin fans on the boards, who enjoy reading and writing about our beloved school, even if they happen to have had a terrible year.

Thank you.

Taking shots at other coaches? Pretty sure I was talking about how the other coaches at Calvin do a great job (Warners, Souders, Diemer). And the board is a place for public opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

I'm guessing it was the John Ross comment he was referencing.

Knight2Day continues to impress with his vast knowledge.  Maybe some research could be done before running his mouth about a fantastic Calvin coach, John Ross.  I was going to ignore the comment, but I just couldn't.

He's the men's version of John Ross. Hope to get a Brink, Snikkers, Veenstra, Winkle every few years so you can make a tourney run to satisfy the alum.

Coach Ross recruited plenty of fine young women for the program during his time there.  Winkle and C. Verkaik won national player of the year.  He's had multiple All Americans.  His program was not built on just these 2 players either.  He recruited at a high level each and every year.  But I'm sure you're already aware this since it seems you support the program so well.

I know you don't like stats, but I'm going to throw some your way and see if you realize what they mean.

When Ross stepped down he was the 8th winningest active coach in the country, all divisions in women's basketball.  He still remains as the 13th winningest coach of all time, all divisions.  He's the 8th winningest coach of all time in D3.

Ross took 3 teams to the Elite 8 during his time at Calvin.  His last Elite 8 team was 30-1 and did not include Winkle or C. Verkaik.  It was 2 years after C. Verkaik left.  So based on your logic they should have been only winning 10-15 games that year.  Ross's first run to the Elite 8 included Winkle, but I'm guessing you don't remember that they lost their 1st and 3rd leading scorer's in the conference championship game against Hope, to ACL tears.  Winkle was 2nd on the team in scoring that year.  They then proceeded to go on the road and make it to the Elite 8.  I guess those other recruits Ross got must have gotten them there, but what do I know?

Ross's wins each year:
23, 25, 23, 28, 15, 16, 24, 25, 28, 23, 19, 30, 20

Again, don't go trashing a coach or program when you have no idea.  I'm embarrassed you associate yourself as a Calvin fan.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The NCAA men's basketball regional advisory committees released their third set of rankings, and as expected, the Atlantic Region was among those getting shuffled. Here's the full list: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-third

[Dutchfan]

As a Hope fan (obviously), I have been becoming increasingly disheartened by the turnout by the Hope students. Although the crowds have still been showing up, the students, outside of the games against Calvin, have been virtually non-existent.

[HopeConvert]

As a Hope fan (obviously), I have been becoming increasingly disheartened by the turnout by the Hope students. Although the crowds have still been showing up, the students, outside of the games against Calvin, have been virtually non-existent.

I know we have been having problems with enrollment, but students still do exist. The student section at the games, however, is a different story. I have my theories about that, but not for this venue.

[wiz]

As a Hope fan (obviously), I have been becoming increasingly disheartened by the turnout by the Hope students. Although the crowds have still been showing up, the students, outside of the games against Calvin, have been virtually non-existent.

I know we have been having problems with enrollment, but students still do exist. The student section at the games, however, is a different story. I have my theories about that, but not for this venue.

Why not on this venue?  You just announced you have a theory about it on this venue.  If you just need a little urging, I'll assist with that.

[Winifred Durfee]

As a Hope fan (obviously), I have been becoming increasingly disheartened by the turnout by the Hope students. Although the crowds have still been showing up, the students, outside of the games against Calvin, have been virtually non-existent.

I know we have been having problems with enrollment, but students still do exist. The student section at the games, however, is a different story. I have my theories about that, but not for this venue.

Why not on this venue?  You just announced you have a theory about it on this venue.  If you just need a little urging, I'll assist with that.

I'm far from an expert on most of the things discussed here, but if there is one thing I know, it's about student attendance at Hope basketball games and other athletic events in general. Greek Life is growing and so are the activities that go along with it, even for non- Greek life students. Wednesday night is bar night in Holland, Saturday afternoon most of the students are day drinking or out of town doing things for the weekend. If it's not the Calvin game, students that attend are sitting with whatever organization they belong to. If the baseball team goes, they sit together. Same with volleyball. It's just not the thing to do anymore that it used to be. Freshmen stand in the Dew Crew, then they join Greek Life, or start their sport, and it's not what their group does.

TL;DR: Hope students want to party and might stop by the game with a good buzz if they can sit down in a nice padded upper-level seat.

[hornets76542]

As a Hope fan (obviously), I have been becoming increasingly disheartened by the turnout by the Hope students. Although the crowds have still been showing up, the students, outside of the games against Calvin, have been virtually non-existent.

I know we have been having problems with enrollment, but students still do exist. The student section at the games, however, is a different story. I have my theories about that, but not for this venue.

Why not on this venue?  You just announced you have a theory about it on this venue.  If you just need a little urging, I'll assist with that.

I'm far from an expert on most of the things discussed here, but if there is one thing I know, it's about student attendance at Hope basketball games and other athletic events in general. Greek Life is growing and so are the activities that go along with it, even for non- Greek life students. Wednesday night is bar night in Holland, Saturday afternoon most of the students are day drinking or out of town doing things for the weekend. If it's not the Calvin game, students that attend are sitting with whatever organization they belong to. If the baseball team goes, they sit together. Same with volleyball. It's just not the thing to do anymore that it used to be. Freshmen stand in the Dew Crew, then they join Greek Life, or start their sport, and it's not what their group does.

TL;DR: Hope students want to party and might stop by the game with a good buzz if they can sit down in a nice padded upper-level seat.

I feel like the obvious nexus here is getting the drunk people to be in the student section. It's kinda what we do here and it makes the game atmosphere a hell of a lot more fun, speaking from experience.

[HOPEful]

... Wednesday night is bar night in Holland, Saturday afternoon most of the students are day drinking or out of town doing things for the weekend...

...Hope students want to party and might stop by the game with a good buzz if they can sit down in a nice padded upper-level seat...

Although there may be slivers of truth in this take, it's a lot of hyperbole IMO.

Yes Wednesday is bar night, for those students that are 21 (or are equipped to pretend to be). Yes some students party all day Saturday and/or leave campus. Some, not most.

In my experience, student turnout at Hope games has always ebbed and flowed. Some, but not all, of the many factors that account for this are...

          - The on-the-court product (starting the season 6-5 did NOT help gain student support when MIAA play started up in January)

          - Upperclassmen leadership (Junior and Senior Dew Crew members recruit freshmen and sophomores. A lack of upperclassmen Dew Crew "leaders" usually means much smaller, quieter Dew Crew)

          - Coach involvement (Say what you want about the man/coach, Matt Neil created the Dew Crew and worked hard to make it what it was. He made sure the students were well supplied with t-shirts , Mountain Dew, and many thank yous from staff and players. I doubt Coach Mitchell puts as much time into supporting the Dew Crew...)

          - The non-conference schedule (other than against Grace Bible on a Tuesday night, Hope had 0 home games while the students were on campus until January. At that point they were 6-5...)

          - The MIAA schedule (5 Wednesday night games and 2 Saturday games. Saturdays have always been better attended by students. Classes, activities, papers due, bar night, etc.)

          - More and more students groups and activities on campus

          - The terrible parking situation at Hope and lack of desire to walk in the cold


I think if Hope wants to keep the Dew Crew and it's reputation as being one of, if not THE, best student sections in D3, it needs to evolve. The group needs better structure, official leadership, and funding. They ought to be actively recruiting underclassmen in the same way junior and senior Pull coaches do.

[HOPEful]

As a Hope fan (obviously), I have been becoming increasingly disheartened by the turnout by the Hope students. Although the crowds have still been showing up, the students, outside of the games against Calvin, have been virtually non-existent.

I know we have been having problems with enrollment, but students still do exist. The student section at the games, however, is a different story. I have my theories about that, but not for this venue.

Why not on this venue?  You just announced you have a theory about it on this venue.  If you just need a little urging, I'll assist with that.

I'm far from an expert on most of the things discussed here, but if there is one thing I know, it's about student attendance at Hope basketball games and other athletic events in general. Greek Life is growing and so are the activities that go along with it, even for non- Greek life students. Wednesday night is bar night in Holland, Saturday afternoon most of the students are day drinking or out of town doing things for the weekend. If it's not the Calvin game, students that attend are sitting with whatever organization they belong to. If the baseball team goes, they sit together. Same with volleyball. It's just not the thing to do anymore that it used to be. Freshmen stand in the Dew Crew, then they join Greek Life, or start their sport, and it's not what their group does.

TL;DR: Hope students want to party and might stop by the game with a good buzz if they can sit down in a nice padded upper-level seat.

I feel like the obvious nexus here is getting the drunk people to be in the student section. It's kinda what we do here and it makes the game atmosphere a hell of a lot more fun, speaking from experience.

K College is the only gym I've ever been to where you could LITERALLY smell a waft of alcohol as the student section returned after halftime. I too am speaking from experience

[knights2000]

... Wednesday night is bar night in Holland, Saturday afternoon most of the students are day drinking or out of town doing things for the weekend...

...Hope students want to party and might stop by the game with a good buzz if they can sit down in a nice padded upper-level seat...

Although there may be slivers of truth in this take, it's a lot of hyperbole IMO.

Yes Wednesday is bar night, for those students that are 21 (or are equipped to pretend to be). Yes some students party all day Saturday and/or leave campus. Some, not most.

In my experience, student turnout at Hope games has always ebbed and flowed. Some, but not all, of the many factors that account for this are...

          - The on-the-court product (starting the season 6-5 did NOT help gain student support when MIAA play started up in January)

          - Upperclassmen leadership (Junior and Senior Dew Crew members recruit freshmen and sophomores. A lack of upperclassmen Dew Crew "leaders" usually means much smaller, quieter Dew Crew)

          - Coach involvement (Say what you want about the man/coach, Matt Neil created the Dew Crew and worked hard to make it what it was. He made sure the students were well supplied with t-shirts , Mountain Dew, and many thank yous from staff and players. I doubt Coach Mitchell puts as much time into supporting the Dew Crew...)

          - The non-conference schedule (other than against Grace Bible on a Tuesday night, Hope had 0 home games while the students were on campus until January. At that point they were 6-5...)

          - The MIAA schedule (5 Wednesday night games and 2 Saturday games. Saturdays have always been better attended by students. Classes, activities, papers due, bar night, etc.)

          - More and more students groups and activities on campus

          - The terrible parking situation at Hope and lack of desire to walk in the cold


I think if Hope wants to keep the Dew Crew and it's reputation as being one of, if not THE, best student sections in D3, it needs to evolve. The group needs better structure, official leadership, and funding. They ought to be actively recruiting underclassmen in the same way junior and senior Pull coaches do.

A (somewhat) related question for those of us non-Hopers or simply too young to know... What is the origin of Hope's student section's association with Mountain Dew? Was there ever any official relationship with Pepsi?

[sac]

K College is the only gym I've ever been to where you could LITERALLY smell a waft of alcohol as the student section returned after halftime. I too am speaking from experience

Halftime?   

[Flying Dutch Fan]

All conference selections have been posted on the MIAA website:

2017-18 Men's Basketball All-MIAA First Team

Jalen Adams, Olivet
Jason Beckman, Hope
Myles Copeland, Trine
Tracy Edmond, Olivet
Dante Hawkins, Hope
Justin Webster, Adrian

2017-18 Men's Basketball All-MIAA Second Team

Derrick DeVries, Calvin
Maurice Hunter, Trine
Jeremy Kalonji, Adrian
Eldridge Mason, Olivet
Kevin Scheibert, Alma
Pete Smith, Trine

Most Valuable Player - Jalen Adams, Olivet

Defensive Player of the Year - Maurice Hunter, Trine

And gotta give sac credit for nailing it:

My All-MIAA selections would be:

Jalen Adams, Olivet
Tracy Edmond, Olivet
Dante Hawkins, Hope
Jason Beckman, Hope
Myles Copeland, Trine
Justin Webster, Adrian

Jalen Adams is the MVP.  Adams needs 24 points at Calvin Saturday to have the highest scoring average in league play since Eric Nordman of Alma in 1987

Second team might be interesting because two or three pretty good players will be left off.

[letsgoscots]

I recall Alma's student section in 2016 being the best in the past twenty-thirty years in the MIAA. They even brought a contingent of about 80 to Hope for the game they lost at Hope and brought a contingent of about 50 to a game at CMU where they made a difference in a game Alma lost by 10. Their home games were loud and helped them win at least 12 in a row at home with 100-200 kids in the student section and they had a good number of students travel with them during the NCAA tourney run. It would be nice to see an MIAA team get back to that level.