MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[HopeKnight]

After taking a weekend to reflect, my thoughts on the 200th meeting are...

1. How many times is Hope sputtering on offense for 5 minutes going to be the difference in their games this season? Very frustrating to watch unfold as a Hope fan. It's like groundhog day, you know it's happening because you've seen this script play out before....

2. Teddy Ray is a REALLY good defender. It's crazy to think that NEXT season will be a rebuilding year, with the way this season has played out. But with Jason, Teddy, and Dennis graduating, it's going to be interesting. Preston and Riley give me hope that it won't be as bad as it seems. :/

3. Alex Bos' bow and arrow thing is the douchiest thing I've seen in a while. I'm a little surprised KVS allows it. Sure, he made Hope pay for doubling DeVries every time he touched the ball... But there are a million better ways to celebrate going 4 for 4 from 3 than that.

4. It's looking likely we will get a 3rd game between these two in the MIAA tournament. That's assuming Hope takes care of Kzoo, Adrian, and Alma this week. If they don't, not making the MIAA is a very real possibility.

5. Congrats calvin on a hard fought, good win on your rivals court.

Great crowd and an excellent atmosphere with Hope coming up short again. Same story, Hope starters were solid but the bench was completely overmatched on both ends of the court and outscored 27-3? Coach Mitchell made few adjustments and has a lot of one dimensional undersized bench players. Probably the most ineffective bench in the conference and there has been very little player development. Coach KVS & Calvin have now beaten Hope in 4 of the last 6 games and 3 of the last 4 at Hope. Hope is spiraling down and Calvin is improving and having fun. Quite possible that Hope plays their way out of the MIAA tourney. KVS had a sly smile on his face as he walked off the court since he is very confident in this ongoing rivalry and chess match. Congrats to Calvin!

[KnightSlappy]

After taking a weekend to reflect, my thoughts on the 200th meeting are...

3. Alex Bos' bow and arrow thing is the douchiest thing I've seen in a while. I'm a little surprised KVS allows it. Sure, he made Hope pay for doubling DeVries every time he touched the ball... But there are a million better ways to celebrate going 4 for 4 from 3 than that.

That's a bit harsh. There are tons of kids around the country who do that exact celebration. Shooting a 3pt. arrow is far from "douchy" and its nice to see a coach let a player express themselves in the moment. If you hit 4 threes in a row against Hope at Hope in the biggest rivalry in D3, you can celebrate any way you want short of actual vulgarity.

I've lost count of how many players I've seen do the bow-and-arrow gesture this season. Heck, I see scrubs at the end of the bench doing it when a teammate hits a trey.

I'd be much more ok with a teammate doing it for you. Doing it for yourself for every three you make is just cocky and showboating... especially for a player that averages 5 points a game.

Maybe figure out a way to prevent that guy from scoring 17 on you.

[HOPEful]

... nor did the bow-and-arrow celebrations. Use the term you did to describe it is over the top as well.

douche - an obnoxious or contemptible person (typically used of a man)...

The bow and arrow gesture on the first basket of the game is obnoxious. Repeating it for the next three is even more obnoxious, moving toward contemptible. I have seen plenty of Hope players do "douchy" things over the years, and I will again I'm sure.

None of this takes anything away from calvin's win. Unlike the first meeting, Hope shut down DeVries but calvin's players not named Derrick gave them a true team win.  It was hard fought and well earned.

[sac]

It was other behavior in the game by both sides that should be looked at. Not to take away from the game, but if you have a problem with this than you must have hated the jawing back and forth and finger wagging at each other. Or getting in each other's way as often as possible after a whistle (which finally resulted in a technical foul).

I hope the MIAA addresses this stuff league wide in the summer.  We were one dumb punch away from a full on brawl at Olivet Saturday night.

I've been around the league a long time now and I don't think that kind of stuff has ever been worse.  I think the proof is in the number of player techs, easily a league high.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

... nor did the bow-and-arrow celebrations. Use the term you did to describe it is over the top as well.

douche - an obnoxious or contemptible person (typically used of a man)...

When you choose to use the fourth, slang, version of the definition ... I am no longer interested. That's basically creating a way for the word to be fairly used by you. It isn't. Slang terms in a negative use is just being hyperbolic. No better than the players on the court jawing at one another.

Feel free to see the actual definitions and not the slang version: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/douche

[calvinite]

There is a time when stuff like that is too far and there is a time when it is just fine. It was just fine on Saturday. I even got a kick out of it.

I am all about proper sportsmanship and proper behavior when the situation calls for it ... this was nothing in the grand scheme of things. It was towards the Calvin student-section and his own bench. Players do this all the time and as was pointed out, burying those shots to start the game was worthy of some allowances.

It was other behavior in the game by both sides that should be looked at. Not to take away from the game, but if you have a problem with this than you must have hated the jawing back and forth and finger wagging at each other. Or getting in each other's way as often as possible after a whistle (which finally resulted in a technical foul).

None of that took away from the game ... nor did the bow-and-arrow celebrations. Use the term you did to describe it is over the top as well.

Agree completely, and my first reaction to the bow and and arrow comment was the discussion our van full of particpants had home about the very poor sportsmanship on the part of other players -- on both sides. We were particularly appalled by the behavior one player, but the lenses of my glasses were probably too marron colored to be objective -- but I'm not blind. And even if I'm blind, folks around were discussing one player's poor actions during the game, too.

It was a great game, and I apprecaite the discussion that takes place here -- most of it. but not comments about why one player's actions were found to be obnoxious --- or, going back several years -- about the dangers of celebrating students rushing the court.

Frankly, I find these sorts of comments about players celebrating something that they are happy about -- not something that degrades others -- far more obnoxious that the student celebrating  4, or even one made three. I was a regular poster on this board until the whole board blew up following Calvin's rushiing the floor a couple years ago. I've not posted 5 times since then. In fact, this might be the first post since then. A big part of that, though certainly not all of it, was my disgust with that discussion. Following it, I apologized to SAC. I don't think those types of comments are helpful, though. Others may want to read about how the actions of 20 year old basketball players celebrarting were fonnd to be obnoxious, but I, for one, do believe it says more about the person making the post than it does the person doing the celebrating.

[Jameswys]

I hope the MIAA addresses this stuff league wide in the summer.  We were one dumb punch away from a full on brawl at Olivet Saturday night.

I think some of this was addressed this weekend, though I'm not sure if the league was involved.

[Jameswys]

Tracy Edmond, Colin Jones and Dee Roberts are not warming up on the court with the rest of the team. I'll bet they aren't dressed at all tonight.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Tracy Edmond, Colin Jones and Dee Roberts are not warming up on the court with the rest of the team. I'll bet they aren't dressed at all tonight.

I had gotten wind that at least those three may not play tonight.

[Jameswys]

Coach Ernst got two technical fouls in the matter of thirty seconds (of stoppage time) and was asked to leave the bench. He complied after discussing the matter with a few of his players.

[Young Knight 14]

Well Calvin certainly didn't leave it up to the officials tonight with an almost 40 point win at Alma. Shooting 68% from three along the way  

[maroonandgold]

Well Calvin certainly didn't leave it up to the officials tonight with an almost 40 point win at Alma. Shooting 68% from three along the way

Another absolutely crazy night for the league.  Hope squeaked by Kazoo with only a 1 point lead in the final minute, and Albion did likewise over Adrian with only a 2  point lead in the final minute, and Olivet won without 3 top players.  Who'd a thought those events were even possibilities?

[Young Knight 14]

... nor did the bow-and-arrow celebrations. Use the term you did to describe it is over the top as well.

douche - an obnoxious or contemptible person (typically used of a man)...

The bow and arrow gesture on the first basket of the game is obnoxious. Repeating it for the next three is even more obnoxious, moving toward contemptible. I have seen plenty of Hope players do "douchy" things over the years, and I will again I'm sure.

None of this takes anything away from calvin's win. Unlike the first meeting, Hope shut down DeVries but calvin's players not named Derrick gave them a true team win.  It was hard fought and well earned.

Just for the record he had 18 points and lead Calvin in scoring while shooting almost 50% from the field.

[Jameswys]

The bow and arrow gesture on the first basket of the game is obnoxious. Repeating it for the next three is even more obnoxious, moving toward contemptible.

I did the bow and arrow from the stands twice tonight during the Olivet game. Once when Naffziger hit his first 3pt attempt and a second time when Olivet hit a big shot. I like to embrace it.

[Jameswys]

Olivet 90 Trine 78

I made it to both contests between the Comets and the Thunder this season. In my mind both played out similarly with Olivet taking control early and staying out front but always just a good Trine run away from losing control.

The main difference was the lack of starters for Olivet. Edmond, Jones and Roberts sat tonight which gave OC a chance to play some younger guys. Freshman Cam Ramos started at point and Sophomores Delbert Redfield and Spencer Naffziger came off the bench for 20 minutes each. Redfield had a great game, including 16 points and going 4-5 from downtown. Naffziger played valuable minutes and scored 7 going 3-5 from the floor. He also had the only block in the entire game by a player not named Trevor Manuel. Spencer also had his personal cheering section, his Greek house, going wild for him (and Delbert too).

Manuel is a monster. Obviously without Edmond and Jones the offense filtered to him. He answered with 29 points. He had been stepping up his free throw game lately, going 8-10 and now in the 75+% range for the conference season. In non conference play he was in the 55ish percent range. I think had he not gotten into quick foul trouble (he played only 13 minutes in the first half) he could have hit 40 points tonight.

If you didn't see my post above Coach Ernst was asked to leave the bench after getting 2 technicals in the same clock stoppage. He complied after briefly consulting Naffziger and DiAngelo Carleton.

Myles Copland is a monster. He's one of the top players in the conference in my book. 29 points and 5 assists, what a great night. I was also impressed by Maurice Hunter off the bench, with 23 points in 24 minutes.

This Comet team boils down to energy. There was a palpable energy in Cutler against Hope and tonight against Trine, even though there were 500 less people in the building. Against Albion there was some energy but it felt like the Comet faithful expected a win and didn't really cheer it on. On Saturday night a funeral service could have been held in Cutler, if it wasn't for the noise from the Hornets' families. If there is an energy this team wins, if not they lose. They are driven by the energy from fans and their coach.