MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[fantastic50]

I'm not super sure why it would be easier to recruit to Olivet than Alma. It's closer to Lansing, which is a talent hub, but only by like 20 minutes or so. What other reasons would there be? Does Olivet have drastically lower tuition rates or admission standards than the rest of the league?

Some answers to my own questions:
2019-20 Tuition per year per institution websites:
Olivet: $27,700. Total cost: $38,792
Alma: $41,138, Total cost: $52,782(!)
Calvin: $36,100, Total cost: $46,900

This link, while dated, might be useful for estimating the net price at various places.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/09/30/444446022/what-youll-actually-pay-at-1-550-colleges

It is also worth noting that a lot of small residential colleges in the region are struggling financially.  While I don't have any inside information on any of these three, I have seen some faculty/staff make moves that would be perceived as a step down (or leave higher ed) because of concern about an institution's fiscal stability.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

So fair question, did Hargraves spurn Calvin or does Calvin have their man?

I was wondering the same thing.  Also wondering if the Olivet process got going so quickly, that he was already into the process before KVS announced his retirement.  Could the timing of this all have played a part??

I believe Olivet had their finalists at least selected, if not interviewed, by the time Calvin came open.  I also image, despite the history and prestige, Olivet might be a less stressful, more stable opportunity.

Less stressful I get - but more stable?  Interested to hear your thoughts on that

[Gregory Sager]

That is a useful tool, Drew, even though it's dated. I've bookmarked it. Thanks for sharing it!

[Gregory Sager]

Olivet is closer to the state's major population centers than Alma is, and it's also closer to talent-rich Indiana and to Illinois and Ohio as well (if Olivet ever wanted to explore interstate recruiting, that is; Comets rosters are almost always extremely Michigancentric, regardless of sport). That's only one consideration when comparing the two jobs, but it's worth mentioning. After all, the biggest and most important part of a coach's job is recruiting.

That doesn't mean that population distribution is the be-all and end-all of recruiting, but it sure helps that part of your job when you have a broader spectrum of potential prospects within a hundred-mile radius of your campus than your previous school had.

[TUAngola]

12 posts ... I'm sure you know something, but interesting for a newbie. I do know the finalists as well. Not sure I agree completely on head scratcher/jaw dropping ... but so I don't reveal anything, I won't say more.

So Dave - if Hargraves was indeed one of the names you were aware of at the time of this post, then I agree with your assessment on it not being head scratcher/jaw dropping.  IMHO it's significantly so much more whacked out then either of those two descriptions, that I don't have the right words to describe it.  I mean, what the.....

I heard Brooks Miller is the leading candidate to fill the Alma vacancy. And that Trine, knowing this, has already been in discussions with KVS

What??  I hope this is an early "April Fools" joke  .  Although with the new of Hargraves to Olivet maybe this move isn't a complete shock.  With what the University has invested into it's athletic facilities and programs lately I would think the Trine job would be more attractive.  But Brooks is a Michigan guy, maybe he wants to move back home. 

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Tuangola- I believe the smiley face at the end if that post was an indication of it being a joke. I certainly wouldn't see Brooks going anywhere

[sac]

Tuangola- I believe the smiley face at the end if that post was an indication of it being a joke. I certainly wouldn't see Brooks going anywhere

It might get interesting if the Hillsdale job comes open in the next few years though.

[almcguirejr]

So fair question, did Hargraves spurn Calvin or does Calvin have their man?

I think Calvin's interest was lukewarm.  If Calvin has their man, you would think they would want to let recruits know. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I don't think Hargraves being in the running nor getting the job at Olivet is that jawdropping. He had some success at Alma, but I didn't see much on Alma's end to indicate they wanted to continue that run. One of those "he got us to the NCAAs, why would we help keep that momentum" type things. Seen it at my alma mater to some degree. Many think it is easy when it is done and don't understand how much has to adjust to keep it a reality.

I think Hargraves had done his time at Alma and I got the sense, not talking to him or anyone that close, that maybe it was time to leave. When I was told he was in the running, I thought about it and it made sense to me.

Sure, Calvin makes sense as well ... but I think this is also a sign that Calvin isn't the "place to aspire to go to" as everyone thinks it is. That isn't to say they won't make what may be a good hire, I just don't think people are as drawn to the job as others think they would be.

When I thought on the Hargraves idea at Olivet ... it made sense to me. I think he can get more accomplished and have better success there than either Alma or ... Calvin.

[sac]

So fair question, did Hargraves spurn Calvin or does Calvin have their man?

I was wondering the same thing.  Also wondering if the Olivet process got going so quickly, that he was already into the process before KVS announced his retirement.  Could the timing of this all have played a part??

Backtracking

Ernst announced his resignation the afternoon of Feb 28, VandeStreek followed that evening.  Olivet had maybe only about 4 days head start since it was reported by the media Ernst intended to resign from Olivet.  But Ernst could certainly have notified Olivet privately he was going to resign much sooner.  Rumors started floating around about 2 weeks earlier.......(and a guy in a OC sweater kept saying it out loud to random people on the opposing scoring tables during games.)

Olivet posted its job much sooner than Calvin though I don't have the date.  Calvin just posted on March 27, 6 days after its believed Olivet was bringing in final candidates.  But both jobs were known to be open publicly around the same time, March 1.


Timing could certainly have played a role.  But really the only person who knows is Sam Hargraves.

[sac]

When I thought on the Hargraves idea at Olivet ... it made sense to me. I think he can get more accomplished and have better success there than either Alma or ... Calvin.

Things never said in MIAA history for $2000 Alex.

[Jameswys]

When I thought on the Hargraves idea at Olivet ... it made sense to me. I think he can get more accomplished and have better success there than either Alma or ... Calvin.

Things never said in MIAA history for $2000 Alex.

Taking the Alma part out of it, I honestly think he can have better success at Olivet than he could at Calvin. Hosting the MIAA tournament or even a game is success for Olivet, and this is coming from both an alumni and someone who works on campus. I'm happy if we are in contention to win the conference. The only Olivet sport, in my mind, where winning the conference isn't good enough wrestling.

At Calvin, winning the conference is the low point. Beating Hope and advancing in the NCAAs are the important things. If Hargraves wins 2 regular season titles in 10 years I'd argue that's a lot more success than winning 3 at Calvin in the same span.

This isn't meant to say that I'm hoping against his success, I'd love to see an NCAA sweet 16 run, I'm just trying to say that the success is based on the fan-base's (and adminstration's) expectations and that those expectations aren't the same everywhere. I love this hire and I'm hoping for historic levels of success, but that would be far exceeding expectations and not merely meeting them.

[ziggy]

I think Hargraves had done his time at Alma and I got the sense, not talking to him or anyone that close, that maybe it was time to leave. When I was told he was in the running, I thought about it and it made sense to me.

List of MIAA institutions I hold in higher regard than Olivet: all of them

Maybe I'm projecting too many things that don't ultimately end up impacting the on the job aspects of being the men's head basketball coach but I can't see how moving from Alma, where Hargraves experienced some success, to Olivet is not head-scratching or eyebrow-raising. I honestly can't say how it makes sense without knowing the specifics of his decision-making process.

It has taken a unique set of circumstances for Olivet to become relevant of late and unless Hargraves has a pre-existing relationship with a former D1 recruit, I'm having a hard time seeing anything other than a sideways move for basketball reasons. Maybe there are personal reasons or a feeling that he will be better supported professionally but again, that requires knowing more specifics about what went into the decision than what we have as outside observers.

[DrDutchman]

Agree Ziggy. Other than being the "cheapest" school in the MIAA, I can't think of much that is appealing. Coach Ernst did well with recruiting transfers that were looking for a home for 1-2 years. He never recruited one impact freshman. I know some of their sports are turning toward the transfer route but I'm not sure if 'Last Chance U' is Hargraves preferred method of coaching/recruiting. I could see Hargraves viewing Olivet as a new challenge to turn around a program and that's put some fire back in the belly. It seemed his energy and excitement at Alma was all but gone.

[sac]

I think the inability to carry forward the momentum from 2016 was probably very frustrating.

Alma had a bunch of unfortunate injuries that for certain affected their past 3 seasons along with some other attrition.   Losing one or two guys in a very tight league can really turn your fortunes South quickly.

It would be easy to conclude that maybe there was a perception a ceiling had been reached.