MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[wiz]

Curious strategy by Mitchell at the end of today's game with Alma.  Let the Scots run the clock down before they scored with a nice jumper by Kleiver from the elbow.  Granger's 40 points difficult to celebrate when coach let's the victory slip away.

This is nothing more than an ignorant swipe at our rival.

While Wiz's post seems to be a swipe at the rival it's really not that ignorant.

I fixed your post.

MK, I just paraphrased what Hope's own announcers said in those closing seconds.  Go back and take a listen.  But, when I post it, their underwear seems to get all bunched up.
Speaking of rival teams, the Knights of Calvin University had another good game today.  DeVries didn't score as many as the "lofty Preston Granger", but he did manage to pour in 34 this afternoon.  Oh, and they won.  So that happened.

[sac]

Albion 88  Trine 82 

I was in Angola today.  Just a great ballgame all the way.  Thought Trine had Albion on the ropes more than once but this Brits team just keeps finding ways to win tough games.  So many terrific one on one matchups. 

Some tough misses down the stretch for Trine cost them dearly.

Trine doesn't have archived video but this was the moment I thought Albion was going to pull this out.

07:25   Albion DAVIS,JAMEZELL made 3-pt. jump shot   64 - 65

That's a transition 25 footer plus straight on that banked in.

That's a big win for Albion, who now have wins at Hope, at Alma, at Trine and with Calvin probably the next 4 best teams in the league.  Either Albion drops a game or two they shouldn't or someone is going to have to beat them in Kresge.  Good luck with that.

[sac]

Curious strategy by Mitchell at the end of today's game with Alma.  Let the Scots run the clock down before they scored with a nice jumper by Kleiver from the elbow.  Granger's 40 points difficult to celebrate when coach let's the victory slip away.

This is nothing more than an ignorant swipe at our rival.

While Wiz's post seems to be a swipe at the rival it's really not that ignorant.

I fixed your post.

MK, I just paraphrased what Hope's own announcers said in those closing seconds. Go back and take a listen.  But, when I post it, their underwear seems to get all bunched up.
Speaking of rival teams, the Knights of Calvin University had another good game today.  DeVries didn't score as many as the "lofty Preston Granger", but he did manage to pour in 34 this afternoon.  Oh, and they won.  So that happened.

No, you didn't paraphrase.  Casey Rutledge is mildly critical of a tough situation without ever referencing Alma's ft shooting, they say nothing of Mitchel losing the game or tough to celebrate Grangers outing .  Those are the words of your intentionally prickly post which has been your pattern for years.
https://whtc.com/podcasts/hope-sports/117057/alma-vs-hope-2nd-half/

here's the Hope student broadcast
https://youtu.be/F493JyRYqtY?t=6762
She says nothing critical at all

[wiz]

Curious strategy by Mitchell at the end of today's game with Alma.  Let the Scots run the clock down before they scored with a nice jumper by Kleiver from the elbow.  Granger's 40 points difficult to celebrate when coach let's the victory slip away.

This is nothing more than an ignorant swipe at our rival.

While Wiz's post seems to be a swipe at the rival it's really not that ignorant.

I fixed your post.

MK, I just paraphrased what Hope's own announcers said in those closing seconds. Go back and take a listen.  But, when I post it, their underwear seems to get all bunched up.
Speaking of rival teams, the Knights of Calvin University had another good game today.  DeVries didn't score as many as the "lofty Preston Granger", but he did manage to pour in 34 this afternoon.  Oh, and they won.  So that happened.

No, you didn't paraphrase.  Casey Rutledge is mildly critical of a tough situation without ever referencing Alma's ft shooting, they say nothing of Mitchel losing the game or tough to celebrate Grangers outing .  Those are the words of your intentionally prickly post which has been your pattern for years.
https://whtc.com/podcasts/hope-sports/117057/alma-vs-hope-2nd-half/

here's the Hope student broadcast
https://youtu.be/F493JyRYqtY?t=6762
She says nothing critical at all

I disagreed with the strategy of going for the stop rather than going for the foul.

You immediately criticized my opinion. 

I responded that your own announcer (Rutledge) also disagreed. Listen around the 47 minute mark.  It is very clear that he disagrees with the strategy.

My compliment of Granger's career high 40 point performance was my own thought and had nothing to do with Casey's commentary, although he too was quite impressed with performance.

Every time I post, you personally attack me.  Not so nice sac. 

[Jameswys]

In Kalonji' last 3 games vs OC he's averaged 26.3 PPG. In Harris's last 2 home games against OC he's averaged 29 PPG. They have been playing very good basketball. Hopefully OC can solve them before Adrian comes to Upton.

[sac]

Every time I post, you personally attack me.  Not so nice sac.

This is absolutely not true, everyone is welcome to read Wiz's archives and see how many times I've even responded to him in the last year plus.   Calling your post tonight ignorant and and a swipe was absolutely true, you've even backed tracked into that yourself and tried to make nice by softening your words.  Your intention was clear.

Until this post tonight I've responded to you zero times since last Spring.

[TUAngola]

Albion 88  Trine 82 

I was in Angola today.  Just a great ballgame all the way.  Thought Trine had Albion on the ropes more than once but this Brits team just keeps finding ways to win tough games.  So many terrific one on one matchups. 

Some tough misses down the stretch for Trine cost them dearly.

Trine doesn't have archived video but this was the moment I thought Albion was going to pull this out.

07:25   Albion DAVIS,JAMEZELL made 3-pt. jump shot   64 - 65

That's a transition 25 footer plus straight on that banked in.

That's a big win for Albion, who now have wins at Hope, at Alma, at Trine and with Calvin probably the next 4 best teams in the league.  Either Albion drops a game or two they shouldn't or someone is going to have to beat them in Kresge.  Good luck with that.

I thought the exact same thing SAC.  When Jamezell hit that contested 3 pointer that banked in, I knew that it probably wasn't going to be our day.  Marcus Winters had a tough go trying to guard Jamezell today, and Jamezell was up to the challenge.  He was really feeling it.

Albion just finished better then we did.  I thought Langston Johnson forced some shots in the second half, especially when things got tight.  He's our "go to" guy when we need a bucket but Albion played him tough.  When we were down 2 and called a timeout to set up a play, I thought we got really 2 good looks, one being a missed layup by Hunter.  Then it was a parade to the FT line for Albion after that, game over.

I also thought we got tired in the second half.  Brent Cox picked up a bunch of fouls early in the 2nd and it hurt our rotation of big guys.  Then he played a little more timid when he was in trying not to pick up any more.  When Davis and Garland weren't scoring, Ebeling and Armstrong had such good position inside sealing off defenders that when they got the ball they were already at the rim.  That is why their shooting percentage is so good. They work extremely hard inside to get themselves into position for easy buckets.  I think Freshman Cox will be an all conference type player in this league in the years to come for Trine.  At 6'6 he has a very good all around game.  Can post up but also take you outside and hit the 3.

What side of MTI were you sitting SAC?  Next time you plan a trip to Angola for a game, let me know and we can chat a bit.

[HoopsCoach]

Little rivalry venom today I see. Aye.

That said I'm with wiz. Here's why. Score. Hope had already allowed 87 points and Alma's guards were getting whatever they wanted. In a tight game, with an albeit sleepy as usual home crowd, with less than a minute to go you absolutely foul. You prolong the game. Different if it's a two point game or one where buckets are hard to come by. But Alma is loaded with gamers at guard and wing who can make that shot. Throw FT percentage out and make the game as long as you can.

As far as wiz taking a shot, whatever. Calvin has beaten us the last four times we've played and he's not wrong. Look at the Sentinel story... even Mitchell makes a point to talk about wasting Preston's 40 points.

Bottom line is there are many ways to coach that but I'm with wiz, down three, unable to make big stops most of the game, I make that game as long possible.

[KnightSlappy]

If the question is whether you foul in the double bonus or give up a 20-foot, two-point jump shot with 12 seconds left, I think you take your chances with the long jump shot.

[sac]

I don't question the "to foul or play it out strategy", with 38 seconds left you can go either way and have success but its a near miracle.  Its a very tough spot.  The win probability for the team with the 3 point lead and possession is already nearly 90% and that doesn't factor in their FT shooting.

I saw Olivet use the same strategy against Wilmington, with a couple ticks less time, Olivet ended up with nothing more than a 70 ft prayer the shooter couldn't get off in time.

Wiz, took a swipe when he said Mitchel lost the game. 

[sac]

Albion 88  Trine 82 

I was in Angola today.  Just a great ballgame all the way.  Thought Trine had Albion on the ropes more than once but this Brits team just keeps finding ways to win tough games.  So many terrific one on one matchups. 

Some tough misses down the stretch for Trine cost them dearly.

Trine doesn't have archived video but this was the moment I thought Albion was going to pull this out.

07:25   Albion DAVIS,JAMEZELL made 3-pt. jump shot   64 - 65

That's a transition 25 footer plus straight on that banked in.

That's a big win for Albion, who now have wins at Hope, at Alma, at Trine and with Calvin probably the next 4 best teams in the league.  Either Albion drops a game or two they shouldn't or someone is going to have to beat them in Kresge.  Good luck with that.

I thought the exact same thing SAC.  When Jamezell hit that contested 3 pointer that banked in, I knew that it probably wasn't going to be our day.  Marcus Winters had a tough go trying to guard Jamezell today, and Jamezell was up to the challenge.  He was really feeling it.

Albion just finished better then we did.  I thought Langston Johnson forced some shots in the second half, especially when things got tight.  He's our "go to" guy when we need a bucket but Albion played him tough.  When we were down 2 and called a timeout to set up a play, I thought we got really 2 good looks, one being a missed layup by Hunter.  Then it was a parade to the FT line for Albion after that, game over.

I also thought we got tired in the second half.  Brent Cox picked up a bunch of fouls early in the 2nd and it hurt our rotation of big guys.  Then he played a little more timid when he was in trying not to pick up any more.  When Davis and Garland weren't scoring, Ebeling and Armstrong had such good position inside sealing off defenders that when they got the ball they were already at the rim.  That is why their shooting percentage is so good. They work extremely hard inside to get themselves into position for easy buckets.  I think Freshman Cox will be an all conference type player in this league in the years to come for Trine.  At 6'6 he has a very good all around game.  Can post up but also take you outside and hit the 3.

What side of MTI were you sitting SAC?  Next time you plan a trip to Angola for a game, let me know and we can chat a bit.

Winters v Davis was one of the better 1v1 matchups of the day and it didn't disappoint.   Winters was all over Davis for most of the game, Davis created space in the 2nd half using his deadly step-back move and taking whatever inch came from the high ball screens.  He was brilliant.

Cox looked good.  His 3rd foul I think it was looked soft, impacted Trine's lineup for a bit.  He went toe-to-toe with Ebeling and gave him a good hard fought battle.  Haven't seen many others do that, esp not Fr.

I came away impressed with Trine, they played a great game, just 3 or 4 tough minutes at the end.

[sac]

+1 for road win/ -1 for home loss

1.  Albion 6-0  +3
2.  Trine 5-1 +1
3.  Calvin 4-2  E
4.  Hope 3-3  -1
5.  Adrian 2-4  -1
5.  Alma 2-4  -1
7.  Olivet 1-5  E
7.  Kalamazoo 1-5  -1

Like I said yesterday, it will be awfully hard to catch Albion, one or two teams are going to have to beat them in Kresge or they drop a game or two to someone they shouldn't.  Albion plays at Calvin next Sat, win there and its all but over(?)

With two home losses, Hope's position is more like 5th or 6th

[Flying Dutch Fan]

If the question is whether you foul in the double bonus or give up a 20-foot, two-point jump shot with 12 seconds left, I think you take your chances with the long jump shot.

I guess we shouldn't be surprised to see a split between us posters in the "right" approach in this situation, given I think I've seen both approaches equally applied throughout all levels. If the coaches don't agree why should we.

I also think it's easy to second guess a decision that didn't work out, whether you are a fan or the coach who made the decision. Given the situation, not sure it's worth second guessing that decision since neither approach was likely to determine the final outcome.  That came from the entirety of the game.

[Jameswys]

If the question is whether you foul in the double bonus or give up a 20-foot, two-point jump shot with 12 seconds left, I think you take your chances with the long jump shot.

I guess we shouldn't be surprised to see a split between us posters in the "right" approach in this situation, given I think I've seen both approaches equally applied throughout all levels. If the coaches don't agree why should we.

I also think it's easy to second guess a decision that didn't work out, whether you are a fan or the coach who made the decision. Given the situation, not sure it's worth second guessing that decision since neither approach was likely to determine the final outcome.  That came from the entirety of the game.

This☝️

All of this.

It's spot on!

[Goknights2017]

In reference to the decision to foul or not foul, a 6 second difference is tough. With an 8 second difference, you obviously don't foul. With a 4 second difference, you obviously foul (not enough time to get down the floor and get a decent look at the hoop, you're limiting yourself to a half-court heave to tie it). 6 seconds is enough time to get the rebound, call a timeout, and then get down the floor to get a shot up. It would be tough but doable. If you foul, you're hoping they miss free-throws. Alma, is 78% from the line as a team and their main ball-handlers are all above 80%. Hoping for multiple missed free-throws is a bit of wishful thinking. Like an earlier poster mentioned, the score makes a huge difference. If it is a 1 point game, and probably a 2 point game, you foul with 36 seconds left; However, in a 3 point game, I think you have to let your defense try to get a stop and keep it a 1 possession game, especially against a good free-throw shooting team. Coach Mitchell tried to put it in his teams hands, which I certainly can respect.

It's worth mentioning that if this were a high school game, I would likely foul with a 6 second difference (assuming this is a state that has a high school shot clock, which they all should but that's a different argument). There is a lot more variation and potential for missed free-throws and possible turnovers in the high school game that adds to the variation and potential for a comeback.