MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[HOPEful]

If folks are suggesting that it's harder for Hope and Calvin to recruit players, would that not imply that the schools are having more trouble recruiting students? They (at least Hope) do not have such a problem. So perhaps losses from one traditional source of students is offset by an increase in other sources?

The priorities of a high caliber athlete and a potential student are becoming more and more different. In 2021, players like Brady, Bosma, Veenstra, and Hondard have multiple scholarship offers from not just other colleges, but other Christian schools. For Calvin, even within the CRC, high school athletes can get athletic scholarships from NAIA Dordt or Trinity. So even students from families that continue to align closely with denominational tradition have viable, and perhaps more appealing, options. Vince Overway, a Holland Christian graduate, is currently a sophomore starting at Trinity, for example. More often though, it seems this generation is stepping away from denominational ties. I rarely, if ever, hear of students with a strong desire to attend a CRC or RCA affiliated college. They simply state they want to attend a Christian college. Or even a public college with a strong campus ministries program like GVSU.

And with so many more options and better visibility of high school students, less and less players are "falling through the cracks." Finding the Harrison Blackledges and Evan Thomases of the world, who fall in love with Hope and are able to either afford the increased tuition cost or have the academic resume to be able to find other scholarship opportunities, is become harder and harder. And it's not just turning down scholarship money, it's sometimes the mentality of being "good enough" to play D1, D2, or getting that scholarship. I think a lot of these guys Hope "just missed" on in the last few years fell in love with Hope; loved the program, the campus, etc. but made a different final decision after weighing all the other factors in the decision process. Just because one school is your favorite doesn't necessarily mean the distance between your favorite and second favorite is worth $50,000.

And lastly, I think it IS more difficult to recruit students. Albion's dire financial struggles are well documented. Calvin's financials aren't great and enrollment has been trending the wrong direction, well before COVID. As an institution, Hope has been blessed to have incredible success over the last few years. But other small private colleges have not been as fortunate.

[maroonandgold]

Does anyone know why the standings part  of the  MIAA website does not reflect this year's standings?  Each time I've checked including today it has  last year's records, not this season.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Does anyone know why the standings part  of the  MIAA website does not reflect this year's standings?  Each time I've checked including today it has  last year's records, not this season.

Yeah, the Standings button/tab (just above the calendar) that is on the page is still not linked properly.  If you click on More + (in the black banner just above that) there is a link to Standings that is correct.  Here is a direct link to that as well:

https://www.miaa.org/sports/mbkb/2020-21/standings

[Dutchman17]

If folks are suggesting that it's harder for Hope and Calvin to recruit players, would that not imply that the schools are having more trouble recruiting students? They (at least Hope) do not have such a problem. So perhaps losses from one traditional source of students is offset by an increase in other sources?

The priorities of a high caliber athlete and a potential student are becoming more and more different. In 2021, players like Brady, Bosma, Veenstra, and Hondard have multiple scholarship offers from not just other colleges, but other Christian schools. For Calvin, even within the CRC, high school athletes can get athletic scholarships from NAIA Dordt or Trinity. So even students from families that continue to align closely with denominational tradition have viable, and perhaps more appealing, options. Vince Overway, a Holland Christian graduate, is currently a sophomore starting at Trinity, for example. More often though, it seems this generation is stepping away from denominational ties. I rarely, if ever, hear of students with a strong desire to attend a CRC or RCA affiliated college. They simply state they want to attend a Christian college. Or even a public college with a strong campus ministries program like GVSU.

And with so many more options and better visibility of high school students, less and less players are "falling through the cracks." Finding the Harrison Blackledges and Evan Thomases of the world, who fall in love with Hope and are able to either afford the increased tuition cost or have the academic resume to be able to find other scholarship opportunities, is become harder and harder. And it's not just turning down scholarship money, it's sometimes the mentality of being "good enough" to play D1, D2, or getting that scholarship. I think a lot of these guys Hope "just missed" on in the last few years fell in love with Hope; loved the program, the campus, etc. but made a different final decision after weighing all the other factors in the decision process. Just because one school is your favorite doesn't necessarily mean the distance between your favorite and second favorite is worth $50,000.

And lastly, I think it IS more difficult to recruit students. Albion's dire financial struggles are well documented. Calvin's financials aren't great and enrollment has been trending the wrong direction, well before COVID. As an institution, Hope has been blessed to have incredible success over the last few years. But other small private colleges have not been as fortunate.

The RCA vs CRC era may be coming to an end in the near future one way or another.  The RCA will not be the same as we've known it within the next couple years, so there may be uncertainty regarding Hope's affiliation.  Looking down the road several years there will probably be a similar issue in the CRC.  Will be interesting to see what course the administrations at Hope and Calvin choose to take over these next few years

[HOPEful]

The RCA vs CRC era may be coming to an end in the near future one way or another.  The RCA will not be the same as we've known it within the next couple years, so there may be uncertainty regarding Hope's affiliation.  Looking down the road several years there will probably be a similar issue in the CRC.  Will be interesting to see what course the administrations at Hope and Calvin choose to take over these next few years

Hope has in many ways been defining themselves in a more non-denominational tone for a while now. If you read through their mission, vision, core values, etc. you'll see many mentions of "Christian faith", a few mentions of "Reformed tradition", and have a very difficult time finding any mention of the RCA.

Calvin's affiliation as a member of the CRC is a different story. The CRC as a whole helps fund both Calvin Sem AND Calvin University through ministry shares. In 2020, $31.92 of every $346.48 given to the CRC through ministry shares went straight to Calvin University. To be clear, these numbers are only a small fraction of Calvin's overall operating cost. Nevertheless, it's millions of dollars annually.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Hope has been a wildly inconsistent team for a couple years now. 

They make it very hard on themselves by having nights when they are a poor 3-point shooting team, a poor FT shooting team and a way below average turnover rate team on both ends of the court and they do this in a conference where most teams are way above average in turnover ratios.  Its going to be an uphill battle when they struggle in those 3 areas.

Bad shooting nights will happen that can be both talent and just random, but they can control turnovers.

Currently their 2 most frequently played point guards are both negative assist/turnover ratio along with two other starters.  That's tough to dig yourself out of.  Literally throwing several possessions away every game.  Hope's not talented enough to get away with that.

I think Hope really misses Calvin Hackert running things for them.  Last season he started 24 games (missed 2 games due to injury) with some pretty good stats (6.7ppg, 34% 3PT, 79% FT, 2.7 Ast, and a 1.68 A/TO ratio). Coming into this season he had logged the most varsity minutes of any player not named Preston.  That kind of steady experience from a Sr. PG is the glue that holds teams together and steadies them when the going gets tough.  This year he has only played in 2 games for a total of 17 minutes (not been suited up for most games).  Yes, there are lots of Sr. on this team, but I still think (gulp) we want Calvin 

Some stats from this years games sum up the variability quite well.  Certainly the opposing defense can have significant impact on these, but I still believe it is worth reviewing.

Averages:

3 Ls  --  39.5% FG  --  27.3% 3PT  --  53.7% FT  -- 37.0 Reb  --  19.3 TO  --  10.0 A  --  0.52 A/TO
4 Ws --  47.8% FG  --  45.8% 3PT  --  75.4% FT  --  36.5 Reb  --  12.5 TO  --  14.5 A  --  1.16 A/TO

[pointlem]

Hope has been a wildly inconsistent team for a couple years now. 

They make it very hard on themselves by having nights when they are a poor 3-point shooting team, a poor FT shooting team and a way below average turnover rate team on both ends of the court and they do this in a conference where most teams are way above average in turnover ratios.  Its going to be an uphill battle when they struggle in those 3 areas.

Bad shooting nights will happen that can be both talent and just random, but they can control turnovers.

Currently their 2 most frequently played point guards are both negative assist/turnover ratio along with two other starters.  That's tough to dig yourself out of.  Literally throwing several possessions away every game.  Hope's not talented enough to get away with that.

I think Hope really misses Calvin Hackert running things for them.  Last season he started 24 games (missed 2 games due to injury) with some pretty good stats (6.7ppg, 34% 3PT, 79% FT, 2.7 Ast, and a 1.68 A/TO ratio). Coming into this season he had logged the most varsity minutes of any player not named Preston.  That kind of steady experience from a Sr. PG is the glue that holds teams together and steadies them when the going gets tough.  This year he has only played in 2 games for a total of 17 minutes (not been suited up for most games).  Yes, there are lots of Sr. on this team, but I still think (gulp) we want Calvin 

Some stats from this years games sum up the variability quite well.  Certainly the opposing defense can have significant impact on these, but I still believe it is worth reviewing.

Averages:

3 Ls  --  39.5% FG  --  27.3% 3PT  --  53.7% FT  -- 37.0 Reb  --  19.3 TO  --  10.0 A  --  0.52 A/TO
4 Ws --  47.8% FG  --  45.8% 3PT  --  75.4% FT  --  36.5 Reb  --  12.5 TO  --  14.5 A  --  1.16 A/TO

Clayton Dykhouse's speed--his ability to stay with other teams' quick guards and to drive the lane and create offense--also strikes me as a great help, as evident last night. It's sometimes higher risk than standing outside and passing the ball around, but makes for exciting viewing.

[HOPEful]

Clayton Dykhouse's speed--his ability to stay with other teams' quick guards and to drive the line and create offense--also strikes me as a great help, as evident last night. It's sometimes higher risk than standing outside and passing the ball around, but makes for exciting viewing.

Without playoffs, Clayton and Evan's continued development is the primary reason I continue to watch Hope this season. Those two are fun to watch and I am all in on making the remainder of this season about maximizing their development. I wouldn't mind seeing a little more Weigerink, Halbert, and McKenzie.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

If folks are suggesting that it's harder for Hope and Calvin to recruit players, would that not imply that the schools are having more trouble recruiting students? They (at least Hope) do not have such a problem. So perhaps losses from one traditional source of students is offset by an increase in other sources?

The priorities of a high caliber athlete and a potential student are becoming more and more different. In 2021, players like Brady, Bosma, Veenstra, and Hondard have multiple scholarship offers from not just other colleges, but other Christian schools. For Calvin, even within the CRC, high school athletes can get athletic scholarships from NAIA Dordt or Trinity. So even students from families that continue to align closely with denominational tradition have viable, and perhaps more appealing, options. Vince Overway, a Holland Christian graduate, is currently a sophomore starting at Trinity, for example. More often though, it seems this generation is stepping away from denominational ties. I rarely, if ever, hear of students with a strong desire to attend a CRC or RCA affiliated college. They simply state they want to attend a Christian college. Or even a public college with a strong campus ministries program like GVSU.

And with so many more options and better visibility of high school students, less and less players are "falling through the cracks." Finding the Harrison Blackledges and Evan Thomases of the world, who fall in love with Hope and are able to either afford the increased tuition cost or have the academic resume to be able to find other scholarship opportunities, is become harder and harder. And it's not just turning down scholarship money, it's sometimes the mentality of being "good enough" to play D1, D2, or getting that scholarship. I think a lot of these guys Hope "just missed" on in the last few years fell in love with Hope; loved the program, the campus, etc. but made a different final decision after weighing all the other factors in the decision process. Just because one school is your favorite doesn't necessarily mean the distance between your favorite and second favorite is worth $50,000.

And lastly, I think it IS more difficult to recruit students. Albion's dire financial struggles are well documented. Calvin's financials aren't great and enrollment has been trending the wrong direction, well before COVID. As an institution, Hope has been blessed to have incredible success over the last few years. But other small private colleges have not been as fortunate.

This is the answer of the question I was driving at ... so thank you. I was wondering and suggesting that the options are different because students are looking at things differently than what had been the "usual" way.

Thanks for this. Insightful and helpful.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Clayton Dykhouse's speed--his ability to stay with other teams' quick guards and to drive the line and create offense--also strikes me as a great help, as evident last night. It's sometimes higher risk than standing outside and passing the ball around, but makes for exciting viewing.

Without playoffs, Clayton and Evan's continued development is the primary reason I continue to watch Hope this season. Those two are fun to watch and I am all in on making the remainder of this season about maximizing their development. I wouldn't mind seeing a little more Weigerink, Halbert, and McKenzie.

Agree with both of you!  Would like to see Clayton get back to his A/TO from last season (1.86) versus this season (0.95) though.  Still time to turn that around (he had 3 A to 0 TO last night).  I get that speed can sometimes bring a few more tunrovers, but he was just as fast last year (at least I think he was).

[Pat Coleman]

Does anyone know why the standings part  of the  MIAA website does not reflect this year's standings?  Each time I've checked including today it has  last year's records, not this season.

Yeah, the Standings button/tab (just above the calendar) that is on the page is still not linked properly.  If you click on More + (in the black banner just above that) there is a link to Standings that is correct.  Here is a direct link to that as well:

https://www.miaa.org/sports/mbkb/2020-21/standings

D3hoops.com is also a quality source of such data.
https://www.d3hoops.com/conf/MIAA/men/2020-21/standings
https://www.d3hoops.com/conf/MIAA/women/2020-21/standings

[calvin_grad]

The RCA vs CRC era may be coming to an end in the near future one way or another.  The RCA will not be the same as we've known it within the next couple years, so there may be uncertainty regarding Hope's affiliation.  Looking down the road several years there will probably be a similar issue in the CRC.  Will be interesting to see what course the administrations at Hope and Calvin choose to take over these next few years

Hope has in many ways been defining themselves in a more non-denominational tone for a while now. If you read through their mission, vision, core values, etc. you'll see many mentions of "Christian faith", a few mentions of "Reformed tradition", and have a very difficult time finding any mention of the RCA.

Calvin's affiliation as a member of the CRC is a different story. The CRC as a whole helps fund both Calvin Sem AND Calvin University through ministry shares. In 2020, $31.92 of every $346.48 given to the CRC through ministry shares went straight to Calvin University. To be clear, these numbers are only a small fraction of Calvin's overall operating cost. Nevertheless, it's millions of dollars annually.

Only approximately 30% of students at Calvin now come from CRC churches.  Calvin now gives a $4000 Legacy scholarship to any students from a CRC church or children of alumni.

Ministry shares is also changing so we will see what effect this has on Calvin down the road, but the number Calvin gets from ministry shares will be going down.

[Gregory Sager]

The RCA vs CRC era may be coming to an end in the near future one way or another.  The RCA will not be the same as we've known it within the next couple years, so there may be uncertainty regarding Hope's affiliation.  Looking down the road several years there will probably be a similar issue in the CRC.  Will be interesting to see what course the administrations at Hope and Calvin choose to take over these next few years

Hope has in many ways been defining themselves in a more non-denominational tone for a while now. If you read through their mission, vision, core values, etc. you'll see many mentions of "Christian faith", a few mentions of "Reformed tradition", and have a very difficult time finding any mention of the RCA.

Calvin's affiliation as a member of the CRC is a different story. The CRC as a whole helps fund both Calvin Sem AND Calvin University through ministry shares. In 2020, $31.92 of every $346.48 given to the CRC through ministry shares went straight to Calvin University. To be clear, these numbers are only a small fraction of Calvin's overall operating cost. Nevertheless, it's millions of dollars annually.

Only approximately 30% of students at Calvin now come from CRC churches.  Calvin now gives a $4000 Legacy scholarship to any students from a CRC church or children of alumni.

Ministry shares is also changing so we will see what effect this has on Calvin down the road, but the number Calvin gets from ministry shares will be going down.

I'm guessing that there are a lot of small colleges and universities with strong ties to a parent denomination that can tell a similar tale. North Park, which is and always has been subsidized by the Evangelical Covenant Church (which owns NPU), has gone from having an undergraduate student population that was 40% Covenant in the late '80s to a current undergraduate student population that is only 13% Covenant.

[almcguirejr]

The RCA vs CRC era may be coming to an end in the near future one way or another.  The RCA will not be the same as we've known it within the next couple years, so there may be uncertainty regarding Hope's affiliation.  Looking down the road several years there will probably be a similar issue in the CRC.  Will be interesting to see what course the administrations at Hope and Calvin choose to take over these next few years

Hope has in many ways been defining themselves in a more non-denominational tone for a while now. If you read through their mission, vision, core values, etc. you'll see many mentions of "Christian faith", a few mentions of "Reformed tradition", and have a very difficult time finding any mention of the RCA.

Calvin's affiliation as a member of the CRC is a different story. The CRC as a whole helps fund both Calvin Sem AND Calvin University through ministry shares. In 2020, $31.92 of every $346.48 given to the CRC through ministry shares went straight to Calvin University. To be clear, these numbers are only a small fraction of Calvin's overall operating cost. Nevertheless, it's millions of dollars annually.

Only approximately 30% of students at Calvin now come from CRC churches.  Calvin now gives a $4000 Legacy scholarship to any students from a CRC church or children of alumni.

Ministry shares is also changing so we will see what effect this has on Calvin down the road, but the number Calvin gets from ministry shares will be going down.

I would estimate the number of students in Christian schools who also attend CRC churches to be 50%. The number of non-denominational churches has grown tremendously.  The 30 % number you referred to
seems startling but it's really just a reflection of what is happening in the CRC church.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The RCA vs CRC era may be coming to an end in the near future one way or another.  The RCA will not be the same as we've known it within the next couple years, so there may be uncertainty regarding Hope's affiliation.  Looking down the road several years there will probably be a similar issue in the CRC.  Will be interesting to see what course the administrations at Hope and Calvin choose to take over these next few years

Hope has in many ways been defining themselves in a more non-denominational tone for a while now. If you read through their mission, vision, core values, etc. you'll see many mentions of "Christian faith", a few mentions of "Reformed tradition", and have a very difficult time finding any mention of the RCA.

Calvin's affiliation as a member of the CRC is a different story. The CRC as a whole helps fund both Calvin Sem AND Calvin University through ministry shares. In 2020, $31.92 of every $346.48 given to the CRC through ministry shares went straight to Calvin University. To be clear, these numbers are only a small fraction of Calvin's overall operating cost. Nevertheless, it's millions of dollars annually.

Only approximately 30% of students at Calvin now come from CRC churches.  Calvin now gives a $4000 Legacy scholarship to any students from a CRC church or children of alumni.

Ministry shares is also changing so we will see what effect this has on Calvin down the road, but the number Calvin gets from ministry shares will be going down.

I'm guessing that there are a lot of small colleges and universities with strong ties to a parent denomination that can tell a similar tale. North Park, which is and always has been subsidized by the Evangelical Covenant Church (which owns NPU), has gone from having an undergraduate student population that was 40% Covenant in the late '80s to a current undergraduate student population that is only 13% Covenant.

This is absolutely the trend across most denominationally affiliated schools.