MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[TUAngola]

Trine 67 Alma 59. 

After 2 really solid outings against Olivet and Albion we survived one of those 'yucky' games that we just couldn't do anything right. Things really could have been a lot worse as early in the second half Connor Jones was driving toward the basket and had his shot rejected and as he was going down fell awkwardly into Emmanuel Megnanglo's knee and both guys landed in a heap on the floor.  Alma had a 5 on 3 advantage and drained a 3 to go up by 7.  I was thinking this is not good, there were lots of worried looks on the bench.  Both guys eventually got up, looks like Connor maybe had his bell rung and Manny limped off to get looked at by the trainer.  Manny has been playing banged up for a while, has been wearing a knee brace for several games now.  Fortunately Connor came back in the game a few minutes later and then a few minutes after that Manny came back in, which was a big lift emotionally for the team.  Grant Pahl and Nate Carbaugh had really solid games off the bench as Cox and Jones are both struggling putting the ball in the basket.  Free throw shooting was awful, we were under 50% for the game but finished hitting 8 straight when Alma was forced to foul, which was crucial to fend off the pesky Scots.

We now have the Hope/Calvin road gauntlet this week.  Not sure we have the offensive firepower to win either game so our defense needs to get it done for us to be competitive.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Rules / judgement question:

Is the call for a backcourt / over & back violation correct at the 1:29:00 mark of the Hope @ Adrian game from Saturday?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4yxuFEHop4

Appears to me that the edge of the ball (in the air) may pass over the line, but the ball when touching the floor never actually does. 

[northb]

Rules / judgement question:

Is the call for a backcourt / over & back violation correct at the 1:29:00 mark of the Hope @ Adrian game from Saturday?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4yxuFEHop4

Appears to me that the edge of the ball (in the air) may pass over the line, but the ball when touching the floor never actually does.

I think you are right, it seems like a quick whistle on that call, without the ball touching the ground.

[sac]

The ball doesn't appear to touch the line but without clear video that's impossible to tell.  The referee is slightly off angle,  it probably looked like it did from where he was standing.


Don't be sloppy with the ball and that doesn't happen.

[ziggy]

Rules / judgement question:

Is the call for a backcourt / over & back violation correct at the 1:29:00 mark of the Hope @ Adrian game from Saturday?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4yxuFEHop4

Appears to me that the edge of the ball (in the air) may pass over the line, but the ball when touching the floor never actually does.

I watched this a few times at 0.25x speed and still couldn't come up with an opinion either way. Would be great if this kind of minutiae was all we had to worry about with officiating.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Agree with you all that it's a minor issue, but appreciate the thoughts. Saw it live and didn't think it was the correct call, so I went back today to see it again.  Camera just happened to be perfectly positioned for this.  Interesting that it appears no one there thought it was the wrong call (including the Hope bench and Marcus who committed the "clumsy dribble").

[ziggy]

Agree with you all that it's a minor issue, but appreciate the thoughts. Saw it live and didn't think it was the correct call, so I went back today to see it again.  Camera just happened to be perfectly positioned for this.  Interesting that it appears no one there thought it was the wrong call (including the Hope bench and Marcus who committed the "clumsy dribble").

I'll say this: there is no way the official had a better view of it than we got from the video. Based on that I think it is really tough to make the call, but I can't say for certain he got it right or wrong.

[oldknight]

Agree with you all that it's a minor issue, but appreciate the thoughts. Saw it live and didn't think it was the correct call, so I went back today to see it again.  Camera just happened to be perfectly positioned for this.  Interesting that it appears no one there thought it was the wrong call (including the Hope bench and Marcus who committed the "clumsy dribble").

I'll say this: there is no way the official had a better view of it than we got from the video. Based on that I think it is really tough to make the call, but I can't say for certain he got it right or wrong.

Applying the NFL replay rule I am so well-paid to use, I find no "incontrovertible visual evidence" that would allow me to overrule the call made by the official on the court.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Agree with you all that it's a minor issue, but appreciate the thoughts. Saw it live and didn't think it was the correct call, so I went back today to see it again.  Camera just happened to be perfectly positioned for this.  Interesting that it appears no one there thought it was the wrong call (including the Hope bench and Marcus who committed the "clumsy dribble").

I'll say this: there is no way the official had a better view of it than we got from the video. Based on that I think it is really tough to make the call, but I can't say for certain he got it right or wrong.

Agreed.  So I think I recall that when establishing position from the backcourt to the frontcourt, the rules include that "the entire ball must cross the line" (or am I wrong about that?).  If that is correct, then is it not true going the other direction?

[sac]

Any part of the ball or body touches the line its over and back, there is no vertical "goal line" like soccer or the NFL, hence you can save a ball that has crossed midcourt.

[KnightSlappy]

Agree with you all that it's a minor issue, but appreciate the thoughts. Saw it live and didn't think it was the correct call, so I went back today to see it again.  Camera just happened to be perfectly positioned for this.  Interesting that it appears no one there thought it was the wrong call (including the Hope bench and Marcus who committed the "clumsy dribble").

I'll say this: there is no way the official had a better view of it than we got from the video. Based on that I think it is really tough to make the call, but I can't say for certain he got it right or wrong.

Agreed.  So I think I recall that when establishing position from the backcourt to the frontcourt, the rules include that "the entire ball must cross the line" (or am I wrong about that?).  If that is correct, then is it not true going the other direction?

Here's the rule:

Art. 3. A live ball is in the frontcourt or backcourt of the team in control as
follows:
   a. A ball that is in contact with a player or with the playing court shall be
in the backcourt when either the ball or the player (either player when
the ball is touching more than one) is touching the backcourt. It shall
be in the frontcourt when neither the ball nor the player is touching the
backcourt;
   b. A ball that is not in contact with a player or the playing court retains the
same status as when it was last in contact with a player or the playing
court; and
   c. During a dribble from backcourt to frontcourt, the ball shall be in the
frontcourt when both feet of the dribbler and the ball touch the playing
court entirely in the frontcourt.

[ziggy]

I know everyone here loves a story involving this board's favorite official and I thought there was a great one from last Saturday. Olivet shooter takes a three and goes to the floor for no apparent reason (right in front of where KnightSlappy and I are sitting). It seems play will continue as KS yells for the flop...the well-known official in question then blows the whistle for the flop less than instantaneously after the "reminder", shall we say. I'm not saying KS got the call from the stands but we all know this officially does not generally have a problem blowing the whistle on his own. 

[wiz]

I know everyone here loves a story involving this board's favorite official and I thought there was a great one from last Saturday. Olivet shooter takes a three and goes to the floor for no apparent reason (right in front of where KnightSlappy and I are sitting). It seems play will continue as KS yells for the flop...the well-known official in question then blows the whistle for the flop less than instantaneously after the "reminder", shall we say. I'm not saying KS got the call from the stands but we all know this officially does not generally have a problem blowing the whistle on his own. 

Saw it and I also thought the call was oddly late. Thanks for sharing the rest of the story. Hilarious!

[sac]

Trine 56 Hope 43 F

It was not really this close.  Evan Thomas tried to make a go of it tonight but couldn't really do anything, once Trine figured that out the defensive clamps went on, from 7 min left 1st half to 7 min left in the game  Trine outscored Hope 32-9, that's the worst 20 min Hope's played this year and that's getting to be a long list.

Trine is a very good defensive team, they'll probably give Calvin a run Saturday but the difference is still Calvin has 1 or 2 more offensive options.

Hope:   Quillan 15, Dykhouse 12
Trine:  Cox 19, Jones 14   

[sac]

Albion 83 Adrian 78
Kalamazoo 66 Olivet 65 F

Kzoo rallied from 6 down in the final minute to win.