MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sagstud]

Like I said dude, say whatever you want bout me or my game. Just lookin forward to proven alot of people wrong this year. Keep comin with the negative comments, its good wall material for me to look upon ya know. Keep hating "aplayerhater".

THE KID

[hope4015]

Devossed, do you get a vote for the preseason top 25, because aside from Crawford, you seem to have picked the wrong MVP canidate from the contending teams?

Trewella is Calvin's most important player this year. Unlike Draayer, he can create his own shot and can hit the three (although not as well as Draayer).

Immink is Hope's MVP. Cramer may not even start, Hope's just that deep. Phillips needs people to feed him the ball. He struggled last year without Immink. I think a lot of people undervalued what Immink did for Hope two years ago. His value showed in his absence last year.

About the top 25, do people know that players gradute? Albion lost the two most important players in the league last year and they are still top 10? Did they get some Villanova transfers that I don't know about? Calvin is in the top 25? They lost WAY more than they replaced. Hope is an also ran? They will be the preseason favorite with 7 first place votes from the coaches again this year.

Also, can we stop voting for crappy teams just because they are going to win a crappy conference?

[MIAAFAN3002]

Devossed,
I have to agree wtih 90 feet, I think you are confused with some of the other MVP candidates.  You said "Kyle Konwinski...a threat for a 30 pt night every time he steps foot on the floor. He's money from the outside but can also take guys off the dribble."  He averaged 9 points a game last year and his high was 20.  You might be thinking of his brother Ryany Konwinski who was a pretty good player.  You also said Bill Collins was "One of the league's better all-around players."  Have you ever seen an Adrian game.  He plays zero defense and hardly ever passes.  Do not get me wrong, He is a great scorer but not one of the better all-around players.  Hope will be the favorite to win the league hands down.  They have too much talent to not win the league. 

[devossed]

Hope 4015--No I do not get a vote for top 25, because if I did, things would look differently than they do now. But to answer your question of whether I picked the wrong MVP candidate from contending teams: No, I didn't. Let's look at the 2 cases you suggest.

Calvin-- (Draayer v. Trewhella) While I agree that Kyle can create his own shot, he's not that much better at getting himself open. He struggled when locked down by "good" defensive teams (see his stats when defended by Mike Thomas, when he wasn't injured) and he seemed to do better vs. weaker teams (Eastern, Wartburg). If he is out this year, Calvin won't struggle nearly as much without him as they would without Andy. (They played without Kyle for an extended period last year and they did fine without him). Andy is more important because he's such a deep threat, but also at 6'6" he's a mismatch to anyone guarding him. And like I said, I would give Meckes more MVP potential than Trewhella, because I think he's the 2nd most important guy.

Hope--(Immink v. Phillips) While I don't disagree that Immink is a great player and probably the best PG in the league when healthy, his absence wasn't the only reason for Hope's struggles (Hogeboom was even 2nd in the league for assist-turnover ratio). Immink wasn't depended on for the scoring and rebounding and defensive pressure that Andy was. Hope's fortunes changed for the better when Andy's finger healed (but even that wasn't as healed as it could have been). Immink will be 1st team all conference, but Phillips is an All-American , largely because he is such a better player and a mismatch--smaller guys can't guard him down low and he's way too quick for bigger guys. PLUS HE'S WON THE AWARD BEFORE!!! You can't discount that in the eyes of the league voters.

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MIAAFAN3002--No, I wasn't confused on those 2 players either, but I think you're missing my point. The goal of the exercise was to pick one player from EVERY team in the league, not just the top 6 players overall. I agree that these guys have no real shot at winning the award, but there is NO ONE else on their teams that could come close, at least in the preseason. That may (and probably will) change once league play starts, but this is early banter.

Kzoo--(Konwinski) Yes he averaged 9 ppg, but like you said: THAT WAS LAST YEAR! This year could and should be different. I've watched him for years now, and for the first time, this is his team. He's not playing in big bro's shadow any more. He can and will be a legitimate threat. And unless you (or STINGER) can give me a better alternative for the Hornets, I will stay by that pick.

Adrian--(Collins) Yes, I've watched Adrian play, and I don't think he plays 0 defense (he had 21 steals). He routinely defended what was other team's best players at the 3 position, and their stats were usually below their averages at the end of the game. But yes, my call was largely based on his offensive game, where he excelled. But as with Kzoo, can you think of anyone better to name at this point in the season?

Again, I think you guys missed the point. If you disagree, please feel free to come up with a list of your own and elaborate on your selections.

_____________________________________________________________

TOP 25:

Yes, Pat, please explain the MIAA standings in the poll (especially concerning hope4015's comments stated above "About the top 25, do people know that players gradute? Albion lost the two most important players in the league last year and they are still top 10? Did they get some Villanova transfers that I don't know about? Calvin is in the top 25? They lost WAY more than they replaced. Hope is an also ran? They will be the preseason favorite with 7 first place votes from the coaches again this year")

[Gregory Sager]

Interestingly enough, DV, I brought up the same point about Albion, Calvin, and Hope in my reply to Pat's latest Daily Dose entry. In terms of specific ranking complaints (as opposed to my more general complaint about the philosophy behind keeping poll continuity from the preseason into the regular season), the three MIAA powers represented one of my examples where I think the pollsters went off the rails. Favoring Gustavus Adolphus by such a huge margin over St. Thomas, when most of the MIAC people seem to think that the Tommies are the real favorite to win the league, was the other example.

[ScotsFan]

Also, can we stop voting for crappy teams just because they are going to win a crappy conference?

hope4015,

Just what are you implying by that statement??   To me, it sounds like you are taking a jab at Wooster and Wittenberg among others.  Maybe I'm wrong, but seeing Wooster at #3 and Witt at #10, it isn't much of a stretch for me to conclude that those teams were at least included in your thoughts when you made that statement. 

Exactly what does playing in a sub-par conference have to do with anything regarding the quallity of a basketball team?!  How does the fact that the NCAC is, as you say, crappy make Wooster and Witt crappy as well?!  Yes, their records are inflated by playing weaker teams in the NCAC, but Wooster doesn't shy away from scheduling tougher opponents in their non-conference schedule.  Their opening tournament includes St. Thomas (whom GT just stated above was his choice as favorite in the tough MIAC), UW Stout (any WIAC team is a tough team) and Kzoo from your beloved MIAA.  That's a pretty strong field for a tip-off tournament IMO.

Basically, it sounds to me like you're just bitter to make such a baseless statement like that.  Bottom line is we as Wooster and Witt fans know the NCAC is weak.  This discussion comes up every year!  Would we like to see our conference get stronger?  Of course we would, but that's just not the way it is right now.  But to say that our top teams are crappy just because the conerence might be, is just plain ignorant.  Just look at Wooster's postseason record the last 3 years:

2002 - Final 4 (lost in OT to Williams by 2)
2003 - Elite 8 (beat IWU in the round of 16, lost by 6 to JCU to make a repeat trip to Salem)
2004 - 2nd Round (lost @ #9 Albion by 1 in a match-up of 2 top-10 teams in the 2nd round of the tournament)

And seeing how Wooster lost only one starter and one bench player from last years team that went 27-3, I would say its not much of a stretch to see them ranked where they are despite the fact that the play in such a crappy conference!
           

[Civic Minded]

<inhaling deeply>  Ahhhh, smell that, my friends?  That would be basketball fever in the air, without a doubt.  The unstoppable virus that makes grown men (and women) snippy with perfect strangers electronically in defense of "their" team.  Isn't it grand?   8)

It's been too long without anything fun to discuss.  Let the games, and the bickering, gesticulating, defending, arguing and gloating begin...I for one can't wait!   

As always, GO HOPE!

[Flying Dutch Fan]

A couple of thoughts (and that's working hard for a Friday)...

... the Preseason Top 25 poll

   - I think Albion is a legit top 25 team, but not 8th. 

   - I think Hope will earn a top 25 ranking, but based on last year, I can't argue their current positions

   - I think Calvin is completely overrated (and I base this on statistics, not the fact that I'm a Hope fan).

   - I look at last years stats (specifically scoring, rebounds, assists, and steals).  I have calculate what percentage of each teams total is returning this year:

(School, points, rebounds, assists, steals)
Albion   62.53%      62.60%      57.56%      50.92%
Calvin   40.09%      52.08%      35.60%      42.96%
Hope   53.63%      59.54%      44.12%      46.76%



... the MVP discussion.  From a Hope perspective I guess you have to decide if MVP is the guy who is putting in the points (Phillips) or allowing the team as a whole to put in the points (Immink).  Having once been a point guard, I guess I will always lean in that direction.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

One more thought (dang that hurts)   

Hope has a pretty good pre-MIAA schedule, opening against #15 Elmhurst, a possible meeting with #24 Calvin on Nov 27th, and a potential meeting with #16 JCU on Dec 29th.

[KnightSlappy]

I agree that Calvin may not seem like a top 25 team but preseason polls always reflect how the team finished the year before (see DI college football polls).  Calvin's bench was deep and that was a major factor in their tourney run.  This year we see just how deep it was.  The Knights seem to put a solid team on the floor every year.  It should be another tough MIAA battle.

[hope81]

Had an opportunity to look at DeVos yesterday.  It is going to be very nice, but there is still work to be done.  For anyone that wants to get a look, the plan is to have the Meet the Dutchman scrimmage on November 11.  That is of course if construction stays on schedule.

[sac]

You guys are gonna burn out, its not even November.

Couple thoughts that popped in my mind while reading....

MVP...wide open, lots of good Jr's who can step into the chase as league MVP

Alma.."best talent in the league"....thanks for the chuckle!

Favorite....<ahem> Hope with an asterisk....anyone remember the MIAA standings on paper last year?

Top 25.....Albion #8, why not?...oh yeah no DePree no Thomas, I'd give them top 25 props but not top10 but they will be better than people think.  Calvin in the top 25? yeah maybe, they'll also be a lot better than people think, quality players, quality coach, remember we all thought they could be as low as 4th last year and they made a spring trip to Salem.    Hope in the top 25, NO!  Haven't earned it.  Few quality wins in over a year, against really good teams last year they were spanked a few times, injuries or not, they have a ways to go.  Prove it to me.

DeVos Fieldhouse.....sweet!

My golf game.....virtually non-existant, and Arcadia Bluffs is still beautiful.

Nothing tops fall in Munising and Tahquemenon!

Michigan Football......Saturdays were made for valium!

[aplayerhater]

Does anyone really think a K-zoo player (Kyle Konwinski) will win MVP.  How is this guys going to put up 30 a night when he has no team , who jumps their scoring by 21 points in a season, the Zoo will be lucky to aveage over 50 as a team.  and Collins is a good but not great player I would rather vote for Mike Lewis for MVP (if he even plays). 
Yes philips has to have the ball passed to him, and it will be from the best PG in the league (not my words).

[chris_berman]

I'm looking forward to a great game Nov. 19th at "The Dick"!!

The Dutchmen look good on paper, but they did last year too!  It will be interesting to see if they have the determination, focus, and grittiness that was nonexsistant most of the season last year. 

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Saw a cool list of games against ranked teams on the CCIW board, so I thought I would compile the same for us.  Looks like we're gonna know alot about Elmhurst since they will play 4 different teams from the MIAA.

MIAA teams against Preseason ranked teams
(D3 = NCAA DIII   D2 = NAIA DII   RV = Received votes)

Nov 18 - 19
Alma at Wabash College tournament - includes Illinois Weslyan - 1 (D3)
Kalamazoo at Wooster tournament - includes St. Thomas -RV (D3), UW-Stout - RV (D3), Wooster - 3 (D3)
Olivet hosts Gary Morrison tournament - includes Spring Arbor - RV (D2)
Tri-State hosts Tri-State tournament - includes Indiana Tech - RV (D2), Taylor - 22 (D2)

Nov 19
Elmhurst - 15 (D3) at Hope

Nov 25 - 26
Albion at Allegheny tournament - includes Bladwin-Wallace - RV (D3)
Calvin & Hope at Select Bank tournament - includes Aquinas - 17 (D2), Cornerstone - 8 (D2)

Nov 30
Trinity Christian - RV (D2) at Calvin

Dec 2 - 3
Kalamazoo at Aquinas tournament - includes Aquinas - 17 (D2)

Dec 6
Calvin at Aquinas - 17 (D2)
Hope at Trinity Christian - RV (D2)

Dec 7
Albion at Spring Arbor - RV (D2)
Elmhurst - 15 (D3) at Kalamazoo

Dec 8
Siena Heights - RV (D2) at Adrian

Dec 9 - 10
Hope hosts Holland Sentinel tournament - includes Aquinas - 17 (D2)

Dec 10
Spring Arbor - RV (D2) at Alma
Tri-State at Marian - RV (D2)

Dec 14
Olivet at UW-Whitewater - 13 (D3)

Dec 16 - 17
Alma hosts Rotary tournament - includes Huntington - 7 (D2)
Olivet at Elmhurst tournament - includes Elmhurst - 15 (D3), Buena Vista - RV (D3)

Dec 28 - 29
Albion hosts Holiday Inn tournament - includes Elmhurst - 15 (D3)
Hope hosts Russ DeVette tournament - includes John Carroll - 16 (D3)

Dec 29 - 30
Kalamazoo at DePauw tournament - includes Maryville - RV (D3), Transylvania - RV (D3)
Olivet at Wittenberg tournament - includes Marian - RV (D2), Wittenberg - 10 (D3)