MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[oldknight]

Not that it matters any more but on the play were Smith got pushed out it was originaly a no call and then changed to a foul and that is what pissed the Olivet coach off.  That is why Smith then went to the line and missed 2 shots.

Years ago the NBA actually had what I think was called the "force out" rule which is essentially what Geerlings initially called when Smith was pushed OB. You've got to be an old knight to remember that one. I wonder if it will be in effect at the semis too? 
When the game started my partner and I joked "So which one will we get tonight; the good Todd or the bad Todd?"

[devossed]

Does Geerlings do Hope games?
I was under the impression he is a Hope alumnus.

I'm not aware either (I know he's not done any Hope games this year) but I was referring mainly to him at Calvin games and the others at Hope ones.

All this talk made me want to solidify my list. Please feel free to add/subtract/move them around based on your experiences this/previous years. I welcome your comments and your input (especially those Kzoo/Albion fans who've say they've gotten some raw deals over the last few years)...

OK-to-GOOD MIAA REFS (may have a bad game here and there, but generally call it fair, don't take away from the flow much)

Kevin Kooiker, Mark Ditsworth, Dave Joppie, Ryan Huber, Jim Schipper, John Creek, Chad Palmer, Ray "Don't Call Me Greg" Kelser


Not-so-good-to-BAD MIAA REFS (ticky-tack, inconsistent, baffling calls, need to spend time learning the definitions of "hand-checking" and "illegal screens")

Mike Conlin, Jeff Spedoske, Todd Geerlings


YOU SHOULD BE DOING FRESHMAN GIRLS' GAMES (self-explanatory)

Tommy Bray, Dante Favors, Mike Smith, Wallace Whitfield

[Fun_Ron]

good point about coaches need to protect their teams. however  last nite, the olivet coach lost his focus and literally spent all of his last 5 minutes talking/screaming to the refs and never coached his players on the floor.

maybe the miaa is no different than anyone else.  but many of them have that bobby knight mentality and it really ends up costing their teams.  just coach your players and leave the poor behavior and crying to the uninformed fans in the stands!

[oldknight]

devossed: For the most part I agree with your list with the notable exception of Kooiker. I think he is an excellent ref. As a former college player (and a good one at Grand Valley) he understands the subtleties of the game, he sees the off the ball stuff, he lets the players play and doesn't call the ticky tack stuff, and he has excellent self control when emotions get too high. I would have no problem with him working any game where my team's fortunes are at stake. I think the main problem Geerlings has is that unlike Kooiker he doesn't have the ability to calm people down, a quality more important on the basketball court than on the football field in my judgment. Being more assertive and less of a psychologist is something easier to get away with on the football field where players and coaches alike are more used to being ignored or treated like so much navel lint than are basketball players and coaches.

[devossed]

devossed: For the most part I agree with your list with the notable exception of Kooiker. I think he is an excellent ref. As a former college player (and a good one at Grand Valley) he understands the subtleties of the game, he sees the off the ball stuff, he lets the players play and doesn't call the ticky tack stuff, and he has excellent self control when emotions get too high. I would have no problem with him working any game where my team's fortunes are at stake. I think the main problem Geerlings has is that unlike Kooiker he doesn't have the ability to calm people down, a quality more important on the basketball court than on the football field in my judgment. Being more assertive and less of a psychologist is something easier to get away with on the football field where players and coaches alike are more used to being ignored or treated like so much navel lint than are basketball players and coaches.

Fair enough--I will move him to the "A" list...

[realist]

It is interesting now that we have heard the comments on last nights Calvin/Olivet game from people there.  It does sound like some calls may have been questionable, but when hasn't that happened in some game.  Olivet's game plan by definition almost guarnatees your team is going to get some foul calls against it.  You play agressive D, and press full court it happens every time.
What I find interesting in contrast is Albion shot 36 free throws last night, and so far the Adrian fans haven't blamed the officals.
As a Calvin fan I doubt any Hope win/title will ever be tainted.  The odds are much greater that Hope fans will "taint" any loss!!!! 
A good coach has to establish some relationship with the refs.  Some are better at it than others.  Failure to dialog with refs can cost a coach bigtime.  Most refs will take things from a coach, but don't like smart mouthed players, and smart coaches tell their players to let them do the negotiating with the refs.  Some coaches let select players perform this task.  J Holstege at Hope was so smooth working the refs it was almost fun to watch.  A Winkle during his last year or two also got very good at it.  Next Albion game watch Turner work the officals.  Before the game, during the game, and after the game.  He is very good.

[albionbritfan]

u]YOU SHOULD BE DOING FRESHMAN GIRLS[/u] (self-explanatory)

Uhh, my mind might be in the gutter but my self explains this to me a little differently.  You may to rephrase that.

The Albion-Adrian game I thought was officiated OK last night.  It got a little ticky-tack at times, and there were some missed calls on both ends, but to err is human.

[devossed]

My bad...does it look better now?
If I could give you Karma, you'd have some for that gutter-thinking! Thanks for keeping me in check.

[AndersDY]

Is there somewhere on the web with a lineup of pictures to go with those names? I don't make as much of a point of finding out the actual names of the officials and the PA announcers give you the 3 names each game but that doesn't match the names to the 3 faces. I'm generally left with remembering things like: short guy with dark buzzcut, guy with the missing fingers, GQ model guy who likes adjusting his pants... I'm completely clueless when looking at that list of names now that the two most well recognized refs stepped down. Can anyone give basic descriptions of what the refs (particularly the lower level 7 names) in devossed's list look like?

My bad...does it look better now?
If I could give you Karma, you'd have some for that gutter-thinking! Thanks for keeping me in check.

Marcus Vick is disappointed in your change to the last category title.

[Civic Minded]

CivicMinded (Hope fan/Cub fan):
I suppose it won't shock you if I confess to a lifelong allegiance to Chicago's major-league team on the South Side of town.
And since it would constitute taunting if I told you how things worked out last year for my Knights and my Sox, I'll spare you the details.
See you Friday at the Fieldhouse.

Goodknight, its a good thing I've met you and like you...   

[almcguirejr]

good point about coaches need to protect their teams. however  last nite, the olivet coach lost his focus and literally spent all of his last 5 minutes talking/screaming to the refs and never coached his players on the floor

I disagree, I was very close to Olivet's bench.  I thought Soderberg was excellent during the time outs.  He never once mentioned the officials during the time outs.
He emphasized their pressure defense and constant movement on offense.  He said they didn't need a 3 but to take it if it was there.  He was always positive with his players that they could get back in the game.  It was his leadership during the time out
(after the 2 technicals) at the 11 minute mark, that rallied his team from 16 down.  

He screwed up getting the 2nd T and has no one to blame for it but himself.
Having said that, Geerlings call (which was right in front of Soderberg) was a
killer.  

[goodknight]

Civic Minded:

Life would be boring if everything were orange and Cubbie blue....

[albionbritfan]

My bad...does it look better now?
If I could give you Karma, you'd have some for that gutter-thinking! Thanks for keeping me in check.

Don't get me wrong.  I laughed out loud when I read it.  I just wasn't sure if you wanted that hanging out there.

[realist]

abf:  From the Albion write up on the game I sort of figured it was called reasonably fair.  Adrain used a tough D, and it sounds like they played agressively which anyone will have to do to beat Albion. When one sees 36 and 40 free throws in 2 games on the same night one starts to wonder what instructions officals get.  I always enjoy joking with the officals, and yes, disagreeing with a call now and then, but avoid crossing the line by making it personal.  KVS got a T recently, and it did alot to inspire his team so used wisely it is a nice tool for any coach to have in his/her trick bag.

[albionbritfan]

No question, realist, I would say it was a fairly called game.  And as I have said before on this board, refs have a difficult, thankless task.