MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[kcrest]

Since the season's over I can now comfortably divulge my thoughts of Hope's true weakness without giving any scouting tips away.

Plain and simple it was far too easy to make Hope a perimeter team.......and Hope is not a great perimeter shooting team.  They were able to cover up this deficiency in a couple games earlier in the year when they had good shooting nights  but it was most blatantly obvious in their 3 losses.  Albion, Calvin and Wittenberg, each took the inside easy stuff away and made Hope shoot from the outside.

I think their inexplicable struggles to score in the final minutes of tight ballgames goes back to not having a strong inside post game.  They could never reliably pound it inside and get points or fouls in crucial situations.  Think back to 96 and 98 teams........when it got tough the ball went down low to Bosma, Muhlenberg or Merrit.

This is not a slam on their current frontline, its just the kind of players Hope has right now.......perimeter oriented forwards, slashers if you will.

So if your tall, have good post moves, a Sr in HS or a willing transfer  ..........I think they'll welcome you with open arms in Holland.

I agree completely with your summary Sac.  In fact, on March 5 I said: "The other thing I worry about with Hope is the inside game.  Voisin seems to be unsure about whether or not he wants to be a 5 or a 3.  In my experience at the Final Four - and I've been to four of them with Calvin - you need a strong post player to win it all.  Come crunch time it's not a luxury, but a necessity to be able to get the ball deep and get the tough inside hoop.  So, time will tell whether Hope can muster up something from the 5 spot or whether they defy the odds and go all the way with a 5 who likes to spot up and hit the 3-ball."

Guess we now know the answer to whether Hope could win it all without a post player.

Also, do Hope fans think cutting Peter Overbeek was premature?  Him in the post next year as a 6-6 senior maybe wouldn't have been all bad?

Finally, Alan Babbitt has an interesting Holland Sentinel column today that I think is pretty accurate.  Provocative read to be sure but he makes some good points.  See
http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/031306/localsports_20060313037.shtml?p

[MIdoubleA]

IAlso, do Hope fans think cutting Peter Overbeek was premature?  Him in the post next year as a 6-6 senior maybe wouldn't have been all bad?

When you have a team like Hope's (loaded) and your season ends the way it did (early) there is always an element of "what if." I don't think anyone misses Pete and I don't think Pete misses us either. Let's just wait and see who turns out for next years team... we may be pleasantly suprised 

[realist]

Sac:  Thanks for sharing the personal thoughts.   Good luck in planning for your future.
Thanks also for sharing the scouting tip, however, I think several teams figured it out, and were able to use it to their advantage.  Witt probably figured it out as well, and were able to come up with a plan to exploit the weakness.  Looking at all levels of b-ball, and the premium a good big man deserves the days of seeing dominant 5's in D 3 are probably over.  It may happen that a school gets lucky and gets a late bloomer, but it seems at the h.s. level 6'5"& 6'6" are very common, but they all want to be gaurds or swing at best.  Few want to go inside and take or give some bangs.

[almcguirejr]

I'm not exactly sure how D3 eligibility works, but Dustin Smith was on Calvin's 2004-2005 track and field roster.  Calvin declares an indoor (winter) season.  Could that affect his eligibility? 

http://web1.ncaa.org/ssLists/sportByInst.do?sport=MTI&division=3

Dustin Smith just completed his freshman year of basketball elgibility.
He has 3 years left(if he wants to use his fifth year)  He is currently
competing in his sophomore year of track.  An athlete has 5 years
to use up his elgibility.  The clock started with Dustin at Hope last year.  

[formerd3db]

sac:
Great post.  Being an alum and persoally knowing those people you mention, I couldn't agree with you more.  Your last sentence says it all too.   Thank you.

[Dark Knight]

I think their inexplicable struggles to score in the final minutes of tight ballgames goes back to not having a strong inside post game.  They could never reliably pound it inside and get points or fouls in crucial situations...

This is not a slam on their current frontline, its just the kind of players Hope has right now.......perimeter oriented forwards, slashers if you will.

What about pre-season first-team all-American Andy Phillips? He certainly seemed to have post skills in years gone by, and this year too, when he got the ball inside.

The offense just never seemed to focus on the post game.

[Sturdevant]

I'm not exactly sure how D3 eligibility works, but Dustin Smith was on Calvin's 2004-2005 track and field roster.  Calvin declares an indoor (winter) season.  Could that affect his eligibility? 

http://web1.ncaa.org/ssLists/sportByInst.do?sport=MTI&division=3

Dustin Smith just completed his freshman year of basketball elgibility.
He has 3 years left(if he wants to use his fifth year)  He is currently
competing in his sophomore year of track.  An athlete has 5 years
to use up his elgibility.  The clock started with Dustin at Hope last year. 

Similarly, Jeff Carlson has completed his 4th and final year of basketball eligibility but will still play soccer next year in his 5th year of overall NCAA eligiblity although only his second season of soccer.

[SKOT]

I'm not exactly sure how D3 eligibility works, but Dustin Smith was on Calvin's 2004-2005 track and field roster.  Calvin declares an indoor (winter) season.  Could that affect his eligibility? 

http://web1.ncaa.org/ssLists/sportByInst.do?sport=MTI&division=3

Dustin Smith just completed his freshman year of basketball elgibility.
He has 3 years left(if he wants to use his fifth year)  He is currently
competing in his sophomore year of track.  An athlete has 5 years
to use up his elgibility.  The clock started with Dustin at Hope last year.  

alrighty, i didnt know if overlapping seasons had any affect on eligability.  the ncaa eligability rules might as well be written in Greek they are so confusing...

[irishvoice]

Sac:
Somewhere, several posts back, I acknowledged that Friday night was the first, and only, time I had seen Hope play this season.  Only with the game against Witt as perspective, I could not concur more with your analysis.  Witt completely took away the inside game.  When Hope could not hit their shots from the perimeter, they struggled.  I also was very impressed with the agility of Russ and Borchers for Witt.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

sac - Your post was the most awesome post I have read in here all year.  Your assessment of the team was, as usual, dead on.  And thanks for putting everything in perspective.  We all needed that. 

Please know that CM & I look forward to those pregame/halftime chats.  The hardest part of the season concluding is not seeing all our friends during the games.

[ziggy]

I dont know if it was discussed earlier, but I think one of Witt's big men had the best DIII dunk I have ever seen.  I'm not sure who the player is but he took the ball in the post, pivoted, and threw it down over the Hope defender.  It looked pretty impressive even on that grainy video.  I would have to rank the DIII dunks I have seen like this:

1. Witt big man over Hope in 2005-06 Sectional semi
2. Cramer's drive the lane one hander against Albion in 2005-06 conf. semis
3. Cathage's #50 against Hope in 2005-06 CCIW challenge.  He really rocked the rim
4. Josh Meckes with the buzzer beater alley-oop against Hope in 2004-05 home game
5. Any dunk by Don Overbeek because he was a tank

[knights2000]

I dont know if it was discussed earlier, but I think one of Witt's big men had the best DIII dunk I have ever seen.  I'm not sure who the player is but he took the ball in the post, pivoted, and threw it down over the Hope defender.  It looked pretty impressive even on that grainy video.  I would have to rank the DIII dunks I have seen like this:

1. Witt big man over Hope in 2005-06 Sectional semi
2. Cramer's drive the lane one hander against Albion in 2005-06 conf. semis
3. Cathage's #50 against Hope in 2005-06 CCIW challenge.  He really rocked the rim
4. Josh Meckes with the buzzer beater alley-oop against Hope in 2004-05 home game
5. Any dunk by Don Overbeek because he was a tank

what about Meckes' dunk at the Civic Center last year, down the lane, right over Phillips?? The basket counted, but a controversial call gave Meckes the foul.

[knights2000]

I'm not exactly sure how D3 eligibility works, but Dustin Smith was on Calvin's 2004-2005 track and field roster.  Calvin declares an indoor (winter) season.  Could that affect his eligibility? 

http://web1.ncaa.org/ssLists/sportByInst.do?sport=MTI&division=3

Dustin Smith just completed his freshman year of basketball elgibility.
He has 3 years left(if he wants to use his fifth year)  He is currently
competing in his sophomore year of track.  An athlete has 5 years
to use up his elgibility.  The clock started with Dustin at Hope last year.  

alrighty, i didnt know if overlapping seasons had any affect on eligability.  the ncaa eligability rules might as well be written in Greek they are so confusing...

Nate Meckes (older brother of Josh) is in his 5th year of college, but fourth year of track.

[ziggy]

I dont know if it was discussed earlier, but I think one of Witt's big men had the best DIII dunk I have ever seen.  I'm not sure who the player is but he took the ball in the post, pivoted, and threw it down over the Hope defender.  It looked pretty impressive even on that grainy video.  I would have to rank the DIII dunks I have seen like this:

1. Witt big man over Hope in 2005-06 Sectional semi
2. Cramer's drive the lane one hander against Albion in 2005-06 conf. semis
3. Cathage's #50 against Hope in 2005-06 CCIW challenge.  He really rocked the rim
4. Josh Meckes with the buzzer beater alley-oop against Hope in 2004-05 home game
5. Any dunk by Don Overbeek because he was a tank

what about Meckes' dunk at the Civic Center last year, down the lane, right over Phillips?? The basket counted, but a controversial call gave Meckes the foul.

Forgot about that one.  With the foul and all, I still dont think it would crack the five I had before.  That was a bad call, Meckes got no love from that ref on Valentine's day.

[sac]

I dont know if it was discussed earlier, but I think one of Witt's big men had the best DIII dunk I have ever seen.  I'm not sure who the player is but he took the ball in the post, pivoted, and threw it down over the Hope defender.  It looked pretty impressive even on that grainy video.  I would have to rank the DIII dunks I have seen like this:

1. Witt big man over Hope in 2005-06 Sectional semi
2. Cramer's drive the lane one hander against Albion in 2005-06 conf. semis
3. Cathage's #50 against Hope in 2005-06 CCIW challenge.  He really rocked the rim
4. Josh Meckes with the buzzer beater alley-oop against Hope in 2004-05 home game
5. Any dunk by Don Overbeek because he was a tank

That was a beauty, what was impressive was how quick it went from on the block to in the bottom.  It was fast.  Russ also had another pretty good one in the game. 

Kyle Kleersnyder had one against Adrian a couple years ago, a driving move to the bucket that brought the roof off the Civic in the MIAA tournament.

.....and for the those who go back about 16 years Mark  Lodewyk of Calvin had a collection of great dunks.

.  Looking at all levels of b-ball, and the premium a good big man deserves the days of seeing dominant 5's in D 3 are probably over.  It may happen that a school gets lucky and gets a late bloomer, but it seems at the h.s. level 6'5"& 6'6" are very common, but they all want to be gaurds or swing at best.  Few want to go inside and take or give some bangs.

Very true, its a perimeter game these days.  The positive is you gets guys like Aaron Winkle and Andy Phillips who could do both when necessary.  Tony Gugino at Hillsdale is probably a great example of a kid who could absolutely tear up D3 as a 3 or 4 but would probably be cast as a 5 at this level.

Personally I blame KVS for the lack of post play in D3, clearly his inside post defense is too much to handle and teams have given up trying to beat it.