MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ScotsFan]

I hear there's some good competition to be had down in Puerto Rico.

Seriously, the NCAA needs to get their heads out of their behinds!  How do they come up with this stuff?  Let me try to get this straight.  Playing teams from the southeast and as far as Puerto Rico will count as "in-region", but playing teams just outside the 200 mile radius in Illinois won't count?  This really makes no sense whatsoever, especially when taken into account that teams from Michigan would have to trave throught Illinois and Missouri to play an "in-region" opponent from Arkansas!  As the Guinness boys would say, "Brilliant!!!"

[Dark Knight]

The committee passed some additions to the in-region rule, which will take effect this fall.  IN addition to the current in-region criteria, games against teams from the same NCAA-defined geographic region will also count as in-region games.

Regions are:

(a) Region 1 - Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Vermont; (Revised: 1/12/99)

(b) Region 2 - New York, Pennsylvania,; (Revised: 1/12/99)

(c) Region 3 - Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia; and (Revised: 1/12/99)

(d) Region 4 - Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Washington, Wisconsin, Wyoming.

I understood the old NCAA goals of minimizing travel in D3. But I don't understand this: why is it that Wheaton v. Calvin doesn't count as a regional game, but Wheaton could play Polar U in NW Alaska and have it count? What exactly is the NCAA trying to promote with these rules? 

[northb]

The committee passed some additions to the in-region rule, which will take effect this fall.  IN addition to the current in-region criteria, games against teams from the same NCAA-defined geographic region will also count as in-region games.

Regions are:

(a) Region 1 - Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Vermont; (Revised: 1/12/99)

(b) Region 2 - New York, Pennsylvania,; (Revised: 1/12/99)

(c) Region 3 - Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia; and (Revised: 1/12/99)

(d) Region 4 - Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Washington, Wisconsin, Wyoming.

I understood the old NCAA goals of minimizing travel in D3. But I don't understand this: why is it that Wheaton v. Calvin doesn't count as a regional game, but Wheaton could play Polar U in NW Alaska and have it count? What exactly is the NCAA trying to promote with these rules? 

Contrary to popular belief, the NCAA officials are not blithering idiots or acting on a whim.  They are trying to set up the best criteria for the most amount of schools.  You can complain about it here all you want, but who has a better idea?  Really--post it here, but consider the criteria that the NCAA has to contend with:
1) There is limited money for travel .
2) The mission of DIII is to keep academics a priority--long trips away from school when class is in session does not prioritize academics.
3) Not every league is locked in a peninsula. 
4) Other criteria I do not know about--feel free to add;

How would posters change the rules to keep these criteria in mind, but be more fair?  But remember, a change that helps the MIAA may have unintended effects elsewhere. 

[matblake]

The difficulty lies in the fact that D3 schools are not situated evenly throughout the US.  Therefore, the further west you go, the larger the designations need to be.  Unfortunately, there needs to be a dividing line somewhere.  Looks like a few in-region games can now be picked up while playing the HCAC. 

[realist]

NB;  Food for thought.  Why does an "in region game" have to be geographic by states?  Think about an "in" region formula that is your assigned region (ie: MIAA in the GL), plus  the next 100 nearest (by road miles on mapquest)  D111 schools. IMHO this is equally fair to all schools in all regions as all are subject to the same criteria, and not state borders.  In this scheme every school has their own "in region" pool.  So teams "in" for Adrian might not be "in"  for Alma or Calvin.  This eliminates the situation where you can play a team 1200 miles away, but not one only 215 miles away for credit as a regional game.  Using this formula you actually are rewarded for scheduling schools physically close to you, and if you schedule teams further away you are punishing yourself.   
When do you think the NCAA will send the check for this idea?

[albionbritfan]

Realist, you certainly offer an outside-the-box idea, but there is a potential problem.  Regions don't exist merely for statistical purposes.  The reason you have defined regions are for the purposes of comparison, most notably for the regional rankings toward the end of the season.  IMHO, the ability to compare is diminished by every team having their own region.

I think they could simply alleviate the issue by getting rid of the map software rule and measuring mileage "as the crow flies."  That alleviates the issue of being on a peninsula (although does not eliminate it obviously as no colleges are in the middle of Lake Michigan that I know of).

[realist]

ABF:  In the plan I outlined you would keep your present regional format for all current purposes.  The only difference is I go to the next closest 100 D 3 schools solely for the purpose of "in" region games..  While the NCAA relies on a geographic formula.  All MIAA schools stay in the GL for the reasons you listed.  How often do teams from MI really play teams from most of the area listed as 'In region" for us?  Has Albion ever scheduled a game with Mississippi College?  I considered "as the crow flies", and that is not a problem as long as it determines which are the next closest 100 schools.  With computers today each school having a different "in" region is not a major problem.  The present formula is also flawed in that Wheaton is "in" region for Hope for comparison, but not for Calvin. 

[sac]

Its so simple.........just count all D3 games using that silly little point system.


MIDoubleA

I believe Richardson will get the best chance to start since he's a Sr.   I don't think its too far fetched to see a 3 gaurd lineup  with VanSolkema, Cramer and/or Wolfe/ Partridge.   

[northb]

Its so simple.........just count all D3 games using that silly little point system.

But that does not consider criteria 1 or 2

[realist]

Criteria 1 (cost) is only a consideration for the NCAA.  How else does one explain some conferences?  Does U of Chicago really need to be in a conference with Rochester et. al?  No, they choose that themselves.   Cost seems to be the least of the considerations.  Frankly the same thing can be said for academics, or criteria 2.  Unless the NCAA wants to start organizing conferences like high school districts.   Costs and academics are only fall back positions when the NCAA doesn't want to do something.  Schools, and conferences decide for themselves what they will or won't allow/do/admit etc. etc. etc.
The potential problem with Sac's answer is a. it's too simple, and logical b. it removes the need for a body like the NCAA to make arcane rules, decisions, and judgments.  One set of aribitrary rules or guidelines is no better than any other.  Let's face the fact that in the NCAA, with a few exceptions the power in D3 in almost all sports lies within a few conferences and states, and the NCAA needs to placate some schools/conferences (via the rules) so they don't bolt to another organizing body.  Sadly the NCAA at all levels finds that it is trying to provide an image of parity, and fairness to college sports when in reality it doesn't exist.  Make all the rules you want to manipulate the tournaments, some conferences will probably never field a championship team.

[northb]

Criteria 1 is only a consideration for the NCAA.  How else does one explain some conferences.  Does U of Chicago really need to be in a conference with Rochester et. al?  No, they choose that themselves.   Cost seems to be the least of the considerations.

What influence does the NCAA exert over conference formation?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Criteria 1 is only a consideration for the NCAA.  How else does one explain some conferences.  Does U of Chicago really need to be in a conference with Rochester et. al?  No, they choose that themselves.   Cost seems to be the least of the considerations.

The UAA schools are hardly typical of d3 - cost most certainly IS a major (perhaps even THE major) consideration for most schools. 

I've always liked the solution that sac proposes.  For most schools, nothing will change (due to both cost and class-time considerations), but it avoids such ridiculous anomalies as IWU's games last season against UT-Dallas and Puget Sound would have been in-region, but we can't play ANY MIAA team (POSSIBLE exception: Hope, but I'd guess even they are over 200 miles) as an in-region game!

[realist]

Mr. Y:  I understand that costs are a consideration for many schools, but we also find Calvin driving by how many D3 schools to get to Wooster to play in their Christmas tournament?   It is hard to find almost any school that makes all decisions strictly on costs.
We also need to acknowledge that some schools/conferences don't really like the idea of getting beat by Hope, Albion, Calvin or IWU.  You can't argue cost is your criteria when you drive by one school to play another (past your 100 closest D3 schjools), and that is why my suggestion penalizes a team that does that when they schedule team 155 in terms of distance..
It seems every year we have long conversations about some schoold playing weak sisters while others go for a bit tougher schedule.

[KnightSlappy]

"In region" games do not need to be strictly defined.  The NCAA could add in "rivalries" into the regional games.  For example Calvin makes a point to play Wheaton every year, a game could be considered a 'rivalry' if the two have met in the regular season four of the past five years, or something to that affect.

[Mr. Ypsi]

realist and KS,

Rather than nibbling at the edges and tinkering with the in-region format, why NOT go with sac's suggestion that ALL d3 games count as 'in-region'?  Even if you don't trust schools to 'do the right thing' for class-time reasons, for most schools cost considerations would mean no noticeable change in the schedule.  Hypothetically, a rich school could become a powerhouse by promising recruits a trip to Hawaii every Christmas, but a) they already could, if they were willing to forego a couple of in-region games (and if they are that much much of a powerhouse, pool C considerations wouldn't matter anyway), b) we've got some very rich schools in d3, but no one has adopted this strategy, and c) would such a school even be attracted to d3 anyway (I suspect that in the wider world 'powerhouse' and 'd3' are spoken in different languages)!

By adopting such a simple solution, we would avoid such silliness as IWU's games this past season against UT-Dallas and UPS would be in-region, while there is not a single MIAA team we could schedule who would be.  Hope, Calvin, and K'zoo could make the natural trip to Chicagoland, as could others if that seems more reasonable than Alabama or Arkansas!