MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Here's a thought.........maybe the kid wanted to go to Wooster.



This is nice......

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/050206/localsports_20060502031.shtml

A Junior and 4 Sophomores, pretty cool but Lincoln, Nebraska?

Not exactly the first golf destination I think of.

Oh, it's a lot of fun playing golf out there - just avoid the sand trap/manure piles.   

[MIdoubleA]

It's pointless to scapegoat an administrative office because some kid didn't choose Hope.

My only point was that Hope's usually able to come up with scholarship money if they really want a kid.  Maybe they didn't feel this guy was worth the reach.  I have no idea and I've never seen him play.  But rest assured that if there's someone out there they really want, there's no way that person is paying full sticker price. 

I understand that it may have been that way in the past, but some things are actually changing at Hope (gasp!). Because of increased applications, Hope is actually becoming more selective. Because of its selectivity, more scholarships are going towards more academic oriented students and athletes are no longer able to receive those convenient scholarships unless they too are very strong academically.

It's a bittersweet problem for a school like Hope. Academics increase, but athletics decrease.

All in all, Hope will fill its classes in the fall with or without Joe Basketball, so throwing money at him isn't a priority.

As far as paying full sticker price, regardless of what ANYONE tells you, nobody pays the entire tuition at Hope 

[devossed]

It's pointless to scapegoat an administrative office because some kid didn't choose Hope.

My only point was that Hope's usually able to come up with scholarship money if they really want a kid.  Maybe they didn't feel this guy was worth the reach.  I have no idea and I've never seen him play.  But rest assured that if there's someone out there they really want, there's no way that person is paying full sticker price. 

I understand that it may have been that way in the past, but some things are actually changing at Hope (gasp!). Because of increased applications, Hope is actually becoming more selective. Because of its selectivity, more scholarships are going towards more academic oriented students and athletes are no longer able to receive those convenient scholarships unless they too are very strong academically.

It's a bittersweet problem for a school like Hope. Academics increase, but athletics decrease.

All in all, Hope will fill its classes in the fall with or without Joe Basketball, so throwing money at him isn't a priority.

As far as paying full sticker price, regardless of what ANYONE tells you, nobody pays the entire tuition at Hope 

MIdoubleA -- you are "righter" than you know--having gone through the process many years ago and now having family and close friends go through the process (even "star athletes" who are all-conference caliber in various sports), I can concur that the climate is nowhere what it used to be. Oftentimes, it seems the admissions office and financial aid offices of Hope operate independently without much consultation with each other (big suprise). You hit the nail on the head when you said that Hope will fill its classes regardless: I read a friend's latest alumni newsletter that said something to the effect of having 2,500 applicants for only 800 freshman spots next year!!!

Wolverinekeith's premise held water for a period in the early-to-mid nineties, but rest assured that the Hope admission staff (and worse yet) the coaching staff has not much control in how much aid is offererd. In fact, I've heard Glenn (and KVS and Mike Turner too, as it's not just a Hope-only problem) lament that the last 5 years have been the hardest to successfully recruit. No longer is the Bosma/Elliott/Gugino/Hondered/Veenstra simply going to each school as expected. The proliferation of AAU pumping these kids' heads full of crud along with the economic realities of life in Michigan are the two biggest factors that are hurting the talent level in the MIAA.

You see the Van Solkemas, Vanderheides, Partridges taking the money at the big schools first and then coming back, if they even do come back at all (see Tony Bowne, TJ Meerman, etc).

Also, thanks to MIdoubleA for pointing out what (I think) is called the "Hope Fund" -- which takes about $5,000 off of the $30,000 sticker for ALL students at Hope. But it doesn't mean much to Glenn/KVS/Mike Turner/etc when a kid's family is still stuck with a $20,000 bill (figure a $5,000 academic scholarship) when another D-3 school can offer a different grade of academic "aid" and cover $17,000 of the $20,000 it "costs" to attend.

It's just a differnt game nowadays...

[oldknight]

You see the Van Solkemas, Vanderheides, Partridges taking the money at the big schools first and then coming back, if they even do come back at all (see Tony Bowne, TJ Meerman, etc).


It's just a differnt game nowadays...

Maybe this is the new model for getting top talent at the D3 level--wait 1 or 2 years for your best recruits to reach the disappointment level that so often hits athletes at scholarship schools, where--for a year or two--they get their college education for free, mature as a player against better competition and then take off for a school where the recruit is really wanted and valued.

[Facenorth]

I love this mindless banter.  No one on here knows the half of the process, what it entails and how it can benefit different people.  I guess I'm no different, I'm no better but I would like to add the following: 

First of all, the Hope Grant isn't awarded to every student at Hope.  Call the financial aid office and ask them.  Anything that they award is based on financial need.  Yes, people at Hope do pay the full shot, ouch.  The best athlete every to come to Hope paid the full shot and passed on countless d1 offers, from big ten schools, pac 10 schools and would've been a d1 All American.  And sorry friends, he wasn't a basketball player either. 

The goal in any financial aid office is for that school to be affordable for the family of the student (call one and ask).  It's an opportunity more than anything else.  Typically where the gap is generated is when schools offer merit based awards (academic scholarships for all of you struggling to follow along) for a student whose family will not qualify for any need based financial aid.  Now because this is the MIAA forum, why don't you look around the league a little bit at the criteria for these awards.  My guess is you will find some schools will have very clear cut parameters for scholarships.  Others will have 'loop' holes, if you will, with part of the scholarship being based on 'outside activities' or 'leadership' or these types of things.  What the average household does not know is that at the d3 level anything athletic related cannot (or is not supposed) to be counted or even taken into consideration for these types of scholarships.  So that would mean the best athlete in your high school that plays three sports and is captain of all three but does not do anything else outside of the classroom would have ZERO outside involvement to anyone looking to award merit at the d3 level.  Unfortunate?  Very.  It's unfortunate for any school, for any athlete.  But who checks that and how does one school know how much another student is involved and what their criteria involves before awarding a student a merit based award?  Often times one can speculate that  these 'leadership' scholarships exist to help find ways to make sure the right kids have a better chance of coming to their school.  Not any kid, the right kid.

As far as scholarships go, like I said before, go look at the websites for the different schools.  A school should have outlined very clearly what a student needs in order to reach a particular scholarship whether that be a standardized test score, GPA requirement or whatever the case may be.  As the dollar amount increases so should the caliber of student.

It's one of those things that everyone loves to speculate about but no one that posts really knows the facts.  Anyway, I'm no better than anyone else but this is how I understand things.

[matblake]

Although from last year, here is an interesting article on wait listing and the ripple effect.  An increase in applications is likely coming from people to applying to more schools to assure they get in somewhere.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2005-05-03-waitlist_x.htm

[MIdoubleA]

Anyway...

Thanks for keeping us updated, SBell - even if those updates ARE a little sad for us dutch folk 

[Sturdevant]

Facenorth,

I think what MIdoubleA and Devossed are trying to point out is that the cost to attend Hope, even for a student who pays full tuition is less than what it costs Hope to provide said students education due to donations to the Hope Fund.  Yes, some students, even exceptional athletes, pay the full cost of tuition, but the premise is that they are still receiving an excellent value. 

It's just a hunch, but I'd said facenorth has a better idea than most of us how the interworkings of an MIAA institution really function.

[northb]

It's just a hunch, but I'd said facenorth has a better idea than most of us how the interworkings of an MIAA institution really function.

WHY?

[MIdoubleA]

I'd say Facenorth might even work in one of those departments... maybe for Hope? 

[jidji6]

It's pointless to scapegoat an administrative office because some kid didn't choose Hope.

My only point was that Hope's usually able to come up with scholarship money if they really want a kid.  Maybe they didn't feel this guy was worth the reach.  I have no idea and I've never seen him play.  But rest assured that if there's someone out there they really want, there's no way that person is paying full sticker price. 

I understand that it may have been that way in the past, but some things are actually changing at Hope (gasp!). Because of increased applications, Hope is actually becoming more selective. Because of its selectivity, more scholarships are going towards more academic oriented students and athletes are no longer able to receive those convenient scholarships unless they too are very strong academically.

It's a bittersweet problem for a school like Hope. Academics increase, but athletics decrease.

All in all, Hope will fill its classes in the fall with or without Joe Basketball, so throwing money at him isn't a priority.

As far as paying full sticker price, regardless of what ANYONE tells you, nobody pays the entire tuition at Hope 

[ScotsFan]

Those posts must have had a pretty profound affect on you jidji6.  Anything you wish to add???   Or did you just like the posts so  much you just wanted us all to read them again?

[realist]

One problem with most of us posters is we live in this year or next year.  We really tend to forget what is happening today isn't really that new.  Hope, Calvin, and all D3 schools have been loosing athletes to D1, D2, and NAIA schools for years.  Remember guys named Stegenga, Voskuil, Kooiker, Vande Linde?  The list is long, and it goes back 40-50 years.  What may have changed is the old religious objections to kids playing on Sunday, and failing family ties/loyalty to the various schools. 

[jidji6]

Scotsfan,
  I was so upset at being informed that I am the only guy paying full tuition at Hope that I must have accidently deleted my reply! To make matters worse, our son who we're paying the tuition for has a 3.9 GPA after his junior year.

[northb]

One problem with most of us posters is we live in this year or next year.  We really tend to forget what is happening today isn't really that new.  Hope, Calvin, and all D3 schools have been loosing athletes to D1, D2, and NAIA schools for years.  Remember guys named Stegenga, Voskuil, Kooiker, Vande Linde?  The list is long, and it goes back 40-50 years.  What may have changed is the old religious objections to kids playing on Sunday, and failing family ties/loyalty to the various schools. 

so which is it, Realist--is it the same now as in the past or is it different?
IMHO it has become tougher over the past 5 years, with more competetion from schools that give scholarships--maybe that is Michigan's economy gradually reaching to this level.