MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[NW Hope Fan]

Alma did better than a few MIAA teams closer to the Ohio border, with Wabash, Finlandia, Case Western and Denison (tournaments helped them). They had their chances... but you are right about the DIII philosophy 

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'm kinda surprised that Finlandia is within 200 miles (gonna have to brush up on my geography!).  Wabash, Case Western, and Denison, of course, are all Great Lakes teams - but how far away are they (and is that following the d3 philophy)?

I have no solution for the d3 rules, except, perhaps, to have a commission which would rule on a case-by-case basis for the geographically isolated schools whether-or-not a game against a non-d3 team should count as in-region.  I can imagine huge headaches with such a system, but I think it could potentially be a plus for the d3 philophy rather than a minus.  Missing as little as possible class time, and playing as locally as possible, is simply not an option for some schools and still playing d3 opponents.

[Titan Q]

I'm kinda surprised that Finlandia is within 200 miles (gonna have to brush up on my geography!). 

Finlandia is in the Great Lakes region (200 mile rule not needed).

[Ralph Turner]

This straight line is too good to pass up.  (The off-season can be very boring.  )

I'm kinda surprised that Finlandia is within 200 miles (gonna have to brush up on my geography!). 

Just exactly what do you Lower Michiganders say about those guys on the U.P., anyway!

[Mr. Ypsi]

Oops - with all their ties to Wisconsin, I assumed they were in the West.

[Gregory Sager]

Hope does have one huge advantage over Calvin - the Chicagoland d3s are in-region (Calvin misses by veritable inches).

Not all of them, Chuck. Wheaton is not the only D3 school in Chicagoland.

I'm using Mapquest rather than Microsoft Streets & Maps, but nevertheless I'm fairly sure that these four D3 Chicagoland schools would still turn out to be less than 200 miles from 3201 Burton St. SE, Grand Rapids MI 49546-4301 (Calvin's street address) using the NCAA's preferred software:

U. of Chicago: 177.02 miles
North Park: 191.75 miles
Concordia IL: 193.72 miles
Dominican: 194.64 miles

Elmhurst College is listed as being 200.75 miles distant from Calvin, so this is one of those connections where you'd have to hope for the Streets & Maps numbers to be more generous than Mapquest's. Benedictine (205.3 miles) and North Central (205.52 miles) are probably too far away for the Knights regardless of the map software used.

[sac]

With the geography what it is, can Hope and Calvin put together a similar schedule, where they face a number of good, solid in-region D3's without traveling too much?  (Most of those IWU non-conference opponents listed above are within a 3 hour drive of Bloomington.)  I've never looked at it closely enough to know.

I guess it depends on your definition of excessive travel

D3 teams I think would make sense, others just for reference:

 Already in the Great Lakes Region
From Holland:
Wabash  233 miles
Earlham  287 miles
Heidelberg 258 mile
Ohio Northern 270 miles

......beyond these schools the trips are all 300 plus miles to any other OAC or NCAC school

From the Midwest Region

Defiance 197 miles
Bluffton 270 miles

Manchester 160 miles
Anderson 270 miles
Franklin 290 miles
Hanover 367 miles

DePauw 260 miles

North Central, North Park, Elmhurst, Wheaton and Chicago all fall under 200 miles
Aurora 187 miles
Benedictine 171 miles
Concordia 160 miles
Dominican 160 miles
Lake Forest 180 miles

Carthage 214
Illinois Wesleyen 256

Anything outside the suburbs of Chicago is over 250 miles and a solid 4+ hour drive.

These schools don't even take into account competitiveness, but Hope has actually played almost every one of the Chicago area schools at one time or another.........all the CCIW + Chicago for sure.

So you can see there are a pretty limited number of D3 schools within a reasonalble drive (under 4 hours) avaiable for Hope to schedule.  

It gets worse for Calvin add about 30 miles, it gets a little better for Kzoo,  Albion brings the Ohio schools about 100 miles closer for them but they lose a few Chicago schools.

[Pat Coleman]

Hope does have one huge advantage over Calvin - the Chicagoland d3s are in-region (Calvin misses by veritable inches).

Not all of them, Chuck. Wheaton is not the only D3 school in Chicagoland.

I'm using Mapquest rather than Microsoft Streets & Maps, but nevertheless I'm fairly sure that these four D3 Chicagoland schools would still turn out to be less than 200 miles from 3201 Burton St. SE, Grand Rapids MI 49546-4301 (Calvin's street address) using the NCAA's preferred software:

U. of Chicago: 177.02 miles
North Park: 191.75 miles
Concordia IL: 193.72 miles
Dominican: 194.64 miles

Elmhurst College is listed as being 200.75 miles distant from Calvin, so this is one of those connections where you'd have to hope for the Streets & Maps numbers to be more generous than Mapquest's. Benedictine (205.3 miles) and North Central (205.52 miles) are probably too far away for the Knights regardless of the map software used.

Calvin-to-Elmhurst is 193.1, Calvin-to-Benedictine is 197.2, Calvin-to-North Central is 199.3. And Calvin-to-Wheaton is the infamous 201.3.

[NW Hope Fan]

Too bad it can't be "miles driven."  The Muskegon to Milwaukee ferry could open up a lot of options... Drive to Muskegon, and wheels stop while on board... drive miles start again on the other side! But alas... not only have the NCAA against that possibility, but winter travel across the lake doesn't happen.

[Dark Knight]

Is the d3 philophy really served by making them go 5-7 hours to Ohio rather than 3 hours to Chicagoland? 

Here's a complete list of non-MIAA DIII schools within a 3-hour drive from Calvin (for anyone but sac ):

[sac]

Took me awhile to get that DK........I was about to talk tech support.

[northb]

How about this as a modification to the rule:  If you travel to 1 game, it is up to 200 miles.  If you travel to 2 games, it is up to 400 miles, etc.  What is the difference between traveling twice for the two games (i.e., on different days), vs. traveling the same distance, all for one destination of two games, such as a tournament.  This seems to meet with the philosophy of limiting travel, but gives a fair shake to the landlocked teams such as in the MIAA.

[northb]

[

Here's a complete list of non-MIAA DIII schools within a 3-hour drive from Calvin (for anyone but sac ):

good one

[Pat Coleman]

How about this as a modification to the rule:  If you travel to 1 game, it is up to 200 miles.  If you travel to 2 games, it is up to 400 miles, etc.  What is the difference between traveling twice for the two games (i.e., on different days), vs. traveling the same distance, all for one destination of two games, such as a tournament.  This seems to meet with the philosophy of limiting travel, but gives a fair shake to the landlocked teams such as in the MIAA.

You have plenty of teams within 400 miles that are in the Great Lakes region. There's no philosophy preventing that if you have the will to do it.

You can also invite GL teams to your own tourney.

[Mr. Ypsi]

How about this as a modification to the rule:  If you travel to 1 game, it is up to 200 miles.  If you travel to 2 games, it is up to 400 miles, etc.  What is the difference between traveling twice for the two games (i.e., on different days), vs. traveling the same distance, all for one destination of two games, such as a tournament.  This seems to meet with the philosophy of limiting travel, but gives a fair shake to the landlocked teams such as in the MIAA.

You have plenty of teams within 400 miles that are in the Great Lakes region. There's no philosophy preventing that if you have the will to do it.

You can also invite GL teams to your own tourney.

Pat,

By current rules, your point, of course, is correct, but northb raises an interesting angle.  In terms of travel (and perhaps even more in terms of class time), a trip of up to 400 miles to meet TWO teams (in a tourney, or for that matter, a road trip to two nearby schools on say Friday and Saturday nights) is no more than two separate trips of up to 200 miles.  I wonder if anyone has ever raised that angle - it certainly does not seem to violate any d3 philosophical point that I can think of.

That would certainly make the MIAA-CCIW challenge more attractive for Calvin and Carthage, and I'm sure there must be dozens (hundreds?) of similar situations.