MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Titan Q]

We might have to check with TitanQ on this but I think Albion is the first MIAA program to play at IWU's Shirk Center, possibly first ever at IWU ever.

I would have never thought of that Sac, but I believe you're right.  I've been around for the entire Shirk Center era, and can't recall a single MIAA team coming in.  In fact, I can't think of a single IWU/MIAA matchup, period...regular season or tournament.

That seems strange.

[Titan Q]

You called it, sac.  I should have seen this one coming.  North Central is now a very solid 7-3, while Albion falls to 2-7.

Roughrider

I'm not sure anyone around the CCIW would call North Central "a very solid 7-3."  They were pasted at home by Aurora, lost to a terrible NAIA Harris-Stowe team, and got drilled by Lincoln.  Of their 7 wins, I'm not sure any is real impressive:

http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=North%20Central&team=m

NCC, the preseason CCIW favorite, has struggled.

[Dark Knight]

Calvin vs UW LaCrosse.........to me its a toss up, UWL didn't overwhelm me last spring, this would be a good place to start with quality win.

It would definitely be a good place to start with a quality win, but I wouldn't call it a toss-up -- LaCrosse is a clear favorite. Calvin isn't yet to the level they were at the end of last season.  Massey has LaCrosse over Calvin by 9.

Sadly for Calvin, Ohio Northern has also moved up in the world, and they'll also be a 7-point favorite if they play Calvin.

If Calvin makes it through to Wooster, the Knights will be a 19-point underdog.

[Roughrider]

. . . So the MIAA now has a less than stellar 22-42 overall record going into the final weekend of the non-conference portion of the MIAA season.  Easily the worst in the past decade. . .

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not taking credit for raising this issue.  Sac brought it up long before I did.  But I am having some fun dredging up some interesting statistical trivia in support of this unsavory theory.  

Just how poorly is the MIAA playing so far this season?  To put things into perspective, here's how the MIAA stacks up against a few other in-region and "nearby-region" conferences of some of the better known "rival" schools.

Conference	Latest Update	W	L	Conf %	Top 3	Top 3 %
MIAA	12/28/06	22	42	0.344	Hope, Calvin, Tri-State	0.667
CCIW	12/28/06	57	20	0.740	Aug., Elmhurst, Carthage	0.897
NCAC	12/20/06	42	44	0.488	Woo., Witt., OH Wesleyan	0.840
OAC	12/22/06	58	35	0.624	JCU, ONU, Capital	0.724

The MIAA has the lowest overall winning percentage among the conferences compared.  Even our top three have the lowest percentage of all the top three's compared.  The CCIW has eight schools, all with winning records, and their top 3 have only one loss each!  Very impressive!  The NCAC schools all have already played 2 or 3 conference games each, and all but Wooster have at least one conference loss.  The OAC schools all have already played 4 conference games each, and their top 5 all have 1 conference loss each.

Roughrider

[Roughrider]

You called it, sac.  I should have seen this one coming.  North Central is now a very solid 7-3, while Albion falls to 2-7.

Roughrider

I'm not sure anyone around the CCIW would call North Central "a very solid 7-3."  They were pasted at home by Aurora, lost to a terrible NAIA Harris-Stowe team, and got drilled by Lincoln.  Of their 7 wins, I'm not sure any is real impressive:

http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=North%20Central&team=m

NCC, the preseason CCIW favorite, has struggled.

Titan Q, you would know better than I would.  I yield to your knowledge of the CCIW.  At this point, I don't have all the time required to research the strength-of-schedules of all the schools involved.  I was operating under the assumption (and I know what that implies     ), right or wrong, that some of the wins could have been against "competitive" opponents, and some of the wins could have been against "cream-puffs".  I was only using that observation as a lead-in to my evaluation of the MIAA as a whole, compared to the CCIW.  If it doesn't show how "solid" NCC is, then surely it shows how far Albion has fallen by comparison.  Thanks for the clarification.

Roughrider

[sac]

A quick check of Massey's ratings has the MIAA rated #32 sandwiched between the Mass State Ath Conf and something called the California Pacific league, which untill a few moments ago I'd never heard of.

Within the past 6 years the MIAA has floated around the #5-#8 range with its best being #3 a couple years ago.


Massey also has Guilford ranked #1 so take the ratings with a grain of salt.  D3hoops voters have the Quakers at #39.  Interesting to note Guilford is coached by former Defiance head coach Tom Palombo.

[sac]

Tonight's Russ DeVette tournament at Hope kicks off ...........this is the 18th Russ DeVette, Hope will be gunning for their 12 title.  Spring Arbor, Trinity Christian and Rochester are each makeing their 2nd appearance.

Spring Arbor takeing on Rochester College in the opener.  Spring Arbor won an earlier season game 80-75.

Rochester comes in 8-6 with 3 straight losses but have 3 wins vs MIAA competition........Albion, Alma, Adrian by margins of 13, 11, 11.

They have 3 wins vs Canadian colleges, somehow managed a split with Madonna and have a 103-44 win over the infamous Ohio State-Marian.

Spring Arbor is 11-5 and  has a 5 game wining streak and are a stelllar 11-1 outside the tough NAIA Midwest Conf where they are 0-4.  They've beaten Madonna twice, Cornerstone and Aquinas.  Their best effort was probably their 21 point win at Albion in which they led by 30.



Hope takes on Trinity Christian in the night cap, the Trolls come into Holland just 4-8 with their 4 wins coming against suspect competition.  However the Trolls have not been blown out of any game they've played.  They have 3 local to Holland players Ty DeWitte--Hudsonville, Kurt Gruppen--Zeeland, Nick Rykse--Jenison...........a fourth on the JV Brett Kalkman hails from Zeeland.   All 3 of the varsity locals will play more than 25 minutes.

Hope comes in 6-2 riding the momentum of a 4 game win streak and looking to extend their DeVos win streak to 22 which could come under fire Saturday.  A win tonight will  make Hope 6-0 vs NAIA schools.

Trinity Christian is Hope's 8th most played collegiate rivalry outside the MIAA.  First played in 1971 Hope holds a 23-2 advantage and have won 22 straight games going back to 1973 when TC won 2.


Hope's other most played non-MIAA rivals

Aquinas............69 games..........Hope 44-25
Hillsdale..............66 games.......Hope 51-15**
Western Mich......43 games........WMU 30-13*
Michigan State....30 games.........MSU 18-12*
Wheaton.............30 games........Hope 16-14
Concordia, ILL ...29 games........Hope 27-10
Lake Forest........26 gmaes.........Hope 20-6
Cornerstone.......25 games........Hope 16-9
Trinity Christian...25 games........Hope 23-2

*----Have not played MSU since 1938 and WMU since 1951.......not likely to happen anytime soon.   Some of the MSU games were when MSU was in the MIAA as Michigan Agricultural College I assume.

**---Most of these games happened when Hillsdale was a part of the MIAA, have not played since 1961, in fact I think Hillsdale left in 1961.



------Is Trinity Christian assistant Nick Ploegstra the same Ploegstra who played at Calvin a couple years back?...........I seem to remember a Ploegstra on a Calvin roster.


Is it obvious I'm procrastinating about something?

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Is it obvious I'm procrastinating about something?

Talk about your loaded questions   

See you tonight

[realist]

Sac:  Yes, it is the same Nick P.  You may also recall that the Trinity coach spent some time on the Calvin bench.   That may account for the decidedly W. MI flavor to the roster.
Titan Q:  The closest I can come up with a IWU/MIAA matchup was about 10 years back.  If memory serves correctly  the MIAA champ would have faced IWU as their 2nd round opponent, but a loss intervened

[gohope]

Is it obvious I'm procrastinating about something?

Well it's that or you're definitely the "Trivia King" of the website for the day!

Cheer the Hope Teams on for me tonight, I can't be there. But I'll be ready to cheer them on tomorrow.  Go HOPE!

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Here another angle on how well the league is doing over the last few years.

I looked at teams overall records (year by year) back to the 96/97 season (cause that's how far back the MIAA website archives go).  Here are the number of teams at or above .500 for each year

05/06  3/8 or 37.5%
04/05  4/8 or 50.0%
03/04  4/7 or 57.1%
02/03  4/7 or 57.1%
01/02  5/7 or 71.4%
00/01  5/7 or 71.4%
99/00  5/8 or 62.5%
98/99  5/8 or 62.5%
97/98  3/7 or 42.9%
96/97  4/7 or 57.1%

Currently we are at 3/8 or 37.5% this year.

Of course this can be quite misleading, since most would say we had a pretty good league last year.  I also think the quality of our non-conference opponents has increased.

[Dark Knight]

A quick check of Massey's ratings has the MIAA rated #32 sandwiched between the Mass State Ath Conf and something called the California Pacific league, which untill a few moments ago I'd never heard of.

Within the past 6 years the MIAA has floated around the #5-#8 range with its best being #3 a couple years ago.

Massey also has Guilford ranked #1 so take the ratings with a grain of salt.  D3hoops voters have the Quakers at #39.  Interesting to note Guilford is coached by former Defiance head coach Tom Palombo.

SAC, Massey's Margin of Victory-based ratings are better than the ones you referred to. They have Amherst #1, Stevens Point #2, Wooster #3, and Guilford #20. The other system is especially weak with undefeated teams -- how do you tell them apart without looking at margins of victory?

The MOV-based Massey ratings have the MIAA at #24, between American SW and Empire 8. Still way, way down.

[Pat Coleman]

The CalPac is an NAIA league, FWIW. Massey's list isn't always reflective of who's actually in Division III -- sometimes you have to take out schools he lists, such as Menlo.

[Dark Knight]

The CalPac is an NAIA league, FWIW. Massey's list isn't always reflective of who's actually in Division III -- sometimes you have to take out schools he lists, such as Menlo.

Yes, sometimes the DIII conference listing shows things like NCCAA, NAIA II, CalPac. For example, the current list has "NAIA II Ind" listed with 1 team and a 10 and 51 record. Wow. 

My theory is that if a DIII team is cross-listed in another association/conference such as NAIA II Ind, that gets pulled into the conference list. But you do have to ignore those if you want a realistic DIII conference ranking.

[realist]

FDF:  It is interesting that the numbers are similar this year compared to last season.  To me the key point here is obviously Calvin getting an at large bid with the conference numbers low last season means a concern expressed earlier on this board (poor strenght of schedule number rulling out 2 teams from MIAA) is not necessarily true.   Provided the numbers don't sink any further.  However, most of us would probably agree at this point the MIAA getting two teams in the tournamnet would require someone beating Hope in the MIAA tourney, and that will be a tall order.