MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[dewthedutch]

It looks like Cramer is the undisputed favorite right now for MIAA MVP, with DVS second?

This is a close race between the two players in my oppinion.  Cramer has been simply, the prettiest player to watch so far this year, while at the same time been an incredible leader for hope. 

DVS has contributed a lot with the offense and defense that hope has been displaying over the past couple of weeks.  Also, has anyone else noticed how much he has improved since last year?

I'm looking forward to some great basketball come Wed.

[HopeConvert]

That's the sickest dunk? Come on Hope fans let's not go overboard.    I was expected some sort of J Rich or Mo Ager special from Cramer.    It was a very nice play, but I woudn't call it the best ever.

I'm not unsympathetic to this claim. Yesterday's was a great "play;" I personally thought Wednesday night's dunk was more impressive. But as I said, the best shot was his layup - a combination of great basketball instincts, skill, raw talent, court sense, and tremendous self-control.

Dewthedutch: DVS is a different player this year. I think the combination of playing behind Immink and transferring in had the effect of keeping him from feeling comfortable with the team. This year, he knows it is his team. His three point shooting is so much better, his defense is better, his direction of the offense is better. It goes back to what a number of posters have referred to as the "chemistry" of this team and DVS has been a big part of that.

On a related topic, I do have concerns about how this "unit" substitution is going to play out come tournament time (assuming Hope makes it). I'm not a big fan of lineup substitutions, and while it has worked in the MIAA, I'm not convinced of it as a strategy in other venues. Hope could be susceptible to teams with big lineups, and this tactic could have the advantage of turning the game into a war of attrition. But it has a disadvantage of not having your best players on the floor, or having your best players develop a "chemistry" with substitutes. Thoughts?

[HopeConvert]

Although, having said that about the dunk yesterday, I find myself watching it over and over again on Youtube and getting chills every time.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

That's the sickest dunk? Come on Hope fans let's not go overboard.    I was expected some sort of J Rich or Mo Ager special from Cramer.    It was a very nice play, but I woudn't call it the best ever.

On a related topic, I do have concerns about how this "unit" substitution is going to play out come tournament time (assuming Hope makes it). I'm not a big fan of lineup substitutions, and while it has worked in the MIAA, I'm not convinced of it as a strategy in other venues. Hope could be susceptible to teams with big lineups, and this tactic could have the advantage of turning the game into a war of attrition. But it has a disadvantage of not having your best players on the floor, or having your best players develop a "chemistry" with substitutes. Thoughts?

My concern is that if suddenly the substitution patterns change, you end up ruining that chemistry.  The second 5 has as much chemistry as the first 5.  I would be concerned about "messing it up".

[hope1]

 
i   think it is fine what he is doing  look  what there record is leave it a alone



My concern is that if suddenly the substitution patterns change, you end up ruining that chemistry.  The second 5 has as much chemistry as the first 5.  I would be concerned about "messing it up".
[/quote]

[knights2000]

Best... dunk... ever...

(OK, ever for D3, but still)

Yup, the VS/Cramer dunk was the best I've ever seen in a live BB game . . . something I can believe they might try in practice, but in real game time on the spur of the moment?  Well, maybe when you're 30+ points ahead.

Just a couple of thoughts:

- That Cramer dunk (and the assist by DVS) would be enough for instant introduction into the Super Sweetness Hall of Fame for both.  I even heard that the folks on "media row" were ranking it very high.  I have only seen a dunk of that quality in a NBA game.

Please fill in the gaps .....

At the Civic Center .... Josh Meckes makes a dunk so far from anything ever seen in the MIAA the officials don't know what the right call is .... maybe the first time a guy has dunked, been called for a charge AND the basket counts.

oh my

If you saw both, which was better?

I didn't see the Cramer dunk, but I find it hard to believe that it was better than Meckes' at the Civic two years ago.

1. When Meckes put it down over Andy Phillips, the game was actually a game, and not a 40 point blowout.

2. Competition level?? A dunk against a Hope defense is much more impressive than one over an Alma defense. (Not that Alma made any effort to stop Cramer)

[knights2000]

Hopefully I can get this post up before my karma gets docked
(although there's a good chance it will anyway)

Alma did actually make an effort to get back on D.

[realist]

It was a nice dunk, and deserves to be in the high light reel, but not sure it passes the test as best ever   It is difficult at best to compare one dunk to another.  Hope wouldn't be the first team to go into the NCAA tourney platooning players.  Calvin saw it a couple of times in 00 tourney.  Biggest advantage to mixing, and matching players is for injury, and foul trouble situations. 

[mjfasteenwolf]

actually the best dunk ever happened against hope about 3  years ago at the civic  center against tri-state.  Dave hutter of tri-state stole the ball, dunked it over i believe Imminck and the ref called it a charge.  It was the sickest dunk i have ever seen in a d3 basketball game.

do any hope posters remember this one? 

I remember that dunk and it was absolutely nasty. I also remember someone from one of the scrub teams Hope was playing during winter break last year going coast to coast and dunking over someone on Hope, Voison if I remember right. Not sure if anyone can help clear up my memory but it was pretty sweet.
As far as Hope Dunks go, Cramer' on Saturday was solid, but from what I hear, the one on Wednesday was better. This dunk was great, and took a lot of athletecism but don't go calling it the best dunk in Hope's history, that might be going too far. Personally I think Cramer's against Albion in the MIAA tourney last year was probably better. Also how can everyone forget Voison wanging Crawford last year, that was quite impressive. Last but not least from recent memory, how can you leave out Pete Overbeeks 5 second half dunk performance vs Trinity two years ago , Pete may have never gotten much of a chance at Hope but wow could he dunk.

[AndersDY]

Working OT in the Hope media office

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=150296567

Scott Glasers' dunk


I realize video never does D3 games justice, you had to be there, but please feel free to upload all those other off the backboard dunks between two gaurds at 6-2 in Division 3.  Thanks

After watching it a few times, you have to be impressed on what a great play it was all around right from the start.  Beauty!

I'm confused, the only video I see linked from that random myspace page is the Dick in a Box music video from SNL.

As to the impossible argument of this being the best dunk ever, you can't start putting them side by side perfectly. Cramer's slam doesn't have the element of being thrown down over anyone, but how about most exciting dunk in a Hope game perhaps? I certainly haven't see the Dew Crew ever blow up that big over one play before, and this was in the midst of one of the more boring possible games.

[MIAAFAN3002]

Thank you mjfast...i know other hope posters remember that dunk from the tri-state game...

[Gregory Sager]

Meckes' was good but no......

1. Cramer today--you just don't see that in D3

Actually, you do. Six years ago I saw an off-the-backboard alley-oop in a JV game (North Park vs. Elmhurst) in which Tyler Erickson laid one up off the glass on a fast break and O'Dest Riley put down one of the most emphatic one-handed jams I've ever seen on any level, including the NBA. He had almost his entire arm and head up over the rim. Riley was a skinny 6'7 freshman with major holes in his game, and he only lasted one year at the Park. But he could leap over the moon, and that dunk had all thirty or so of us who were in NPU's gym for the prelim out of our seats and screaming.

That Cramer dunk was terrific, but I've seen dunks from players his size that were every bit as impressive. Three years or so ago Martin Trimiew of Wheaton, who's about the same size as Cramer although he played forward instead of guard, went up in traffic and had a putback dunk at NPU where he was just as elevated as Cramer was in that Youtube video. And I once saw former Carthage guard Greg Ktistou, who was about 6'2 and was a solid wall of muscle, throw one down against SCAD with such force that it actually rocked the stanchion back and forth.

[oldknight]

Realist has it right. Cramer's dunk was highlight worthy but not the best ever in D3--and not the best I've seen in D3. For that honor I have to go back to the 70's when Mark Veenstra was, I believe, a junior and Calvin played a huge game at Albion that would go a long ways in deciding the conference champion. Albion had a solid team led by Paul Cryderman and I believe also had a young John Nibert (later a two time league MVP) on their roster. Calvin had opened up a decent lead at half that slowly dissipated during the second 20 minutes of play. The Kresege Crazies were just as crazy then as now and the decibel level was deafening as the Brit fans (and a younger version of OldKnight) sensed their comeback was (pre)destined to end in an Albion comeback victory. Late in the game a Calvin player took a shot from the wing that came off the back of the rim. As it happened, Veenstra was running down the lane, elevated just as the ball was coming toward him and, at the peak of his jump, grabbed it in his substantial left paw and tomahawked it through the net in one graceful and rim-rattling motion. I've never heard a gym go from deafening noise to dead silence so quickly. As I recall Calvin's lead went from 2 to 4 on that play and I think there was still about 5 minutes left on the clock but that single dunk made it--game, set, match. Considering the quality of the dunk and its impact on the game it was the best D3 dunk I ever saw.

[Dark Knight]

Engelsma and Schuster of Calvin are still tearing up the JV league. They've both improved their averages a bit in MIAA action -- through four games so far.

Schuster has moved into a starting role and is averaging 14.8 points and 6.3 rebounds a game. Currently Isaac Smith of Alma is leading the MIAA (varsity) with 19.9 points and 7.0 rebounds a game. Schuster's numbers translated to the varsity charts would put him at fifth in scoring and second in rebounding. I don't know how hard the move from JV to V is, but he should definitely be a contributor next year.

Engelsma, on the other hand, is averaging 20.8 points and an astonishing 16 rebounds per game in MIAA action. The best rebounding performances in the MIAA varsity this year have been 12 in a game, and Smith of Alma tops the average chart at 7.0 per game. Engelsma had 30 points at 18 rebounds against Olivet. Hope "held" him to 15 points and 16 rebounds by double- and triple-teaming him every time he got the ball. They held him to 2-11 shooting -- but he got 19 free throws and made 11.

[HopeConvert]

I still think Wednesday's dunk against Adrian impressed me more, because it was in traffic, right off the floor, in the middle of three defenders. While it did not make the student section erupt in excitement, it did put a cork in the student section, which might be better. 

In '05 when Calvin blew out Hope at their Fieldhouse they nailed an alley-oop right before the half, someone coming in from the left wing. I can't remember who it was, but that was a good dunk. I remember Meckes' over Philips also - I hate to admit it had some pretty serious wow factor.

MIAAFan3002: If I remember right, that was against Carthage last year. My recollection is that it was one of their bench players - a tall, lanky guy with serious hops - and he did take it right over Voison. His head was about even with the rim, and he took off a good 8 feet from the hoop.