MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[wiz]

Whether he was suggesting it or not, it is the truth.  I went to Calvin from '90-'94 and you had to get to the gym during the JV game if you wanted to sit in the student section.

I was at the Calvin-Albion game a couple of weeks ago, and the student section was only 1/4 full of students at best.  I go to 1 or 2 games a year and student attendance is WAY, WAY down from what is was about 10 years ago.

Not sure why.

Attendance is down for many reasons.  First of all, Calvin is an academically rich and diverse school and has much more to offer than just basketball.  During January, a prime month for basketball, 1/3 of the student body is overseas studying during the interim program.  Many of those that remain on campus simply show up for the Hope game to take a look across the way and say, "there but for the grace of God, go I."

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Whether he was suggesting it or not, it is the truth.  I went to Calvin from '90-'94 and you had to get to the gym during the JV game if you wanted to sit in the student section.

I was at the Calvin-Albion game a couple of weeks ago, and the student section was only 1/4 full of students at best.  I go to 1 or 2 games a year and student attendance is WAY, WAY down from what is was about 10 years ago.

Not sure why.

Attendance is down for many reasons.  First of all, Calvin is an academically rich and diverse school and has much more to offer than just basketball.  During January, a prime month for basketball, 1/3 of the student body is overseas studying during the interim program.  Many of those that remain on campus simply show up for the Hope game to take a look across the way and say, "there but for the grace of God, go I."

Right, and that would be God's grace to the Hope students 

[oldknight]

Whether he was suggesting it or not, it is the truth.  I went to Calvin from '90-'94 and you had to get to the gym during the JV game if you wanted to sit in the student section.

I was at the Calvin-Albion game a couple of weeks ago, and the student section was only 1/4 full of students at best.  I go to 1 or 2 games a year and student attendance is WAY, WAY down from what is was about 10 years ago.

Not sure why.

Attendance is down for many reasons.  First of all, Calvin is an academically rich and diverse school and has much more to offer than just basketball.  During January, a prime month for basketball, 1/3 of the student body is overseas studying during the interim program.  Many of those that remain on campus simply show up for the Hope game to take a look across the way and say, "there but for the grace of God, go I."

In addition, Interim classes ended the day before the game against K on Wednesday evening and classes for second semester didn't resume until this Monday. Student attendance is typically better in February than January for the reasons wizardly states. But Stinger's point that student attendance was better in the early 90's is true. Of course, being on top of the conference as Calvin was back then always helps attendance.

[oldknight]

Ok, I know you havent seen many HOPE games but as I said before....Calvin didnt play in the post!!!  They ran ball and slip screens out on the perimeter...all Reiminks fouls and 2 of Richardsons fouls came on either perimeter play by hedging out too hard or helping on dribble penetration by Calvins guards.  I am just saying in the post defense ALWAYS favors the physically stronger defender. 

I also think that Mantel is a quality big man but most of his points came on jumpers or pick and rolls, not post moves! 

Basketball today (especially the way the post is officiated) does NOT favor the "back to the basket" big man....that is in Hopes favor.
 

Strictly speaking, you're right that in the game at the Fieldhouse earlier this month Calvin's post players were scoring--for the most part--by means other than low post moves. But even if that scoring was by cutting to the basket after setting a high post screens they were still scoring some inside baskets for the Knights and that is something that has been lacking this year. Diversity is a good thing for offenses on a basketball court because it puts on defenses on the defensive.

[almcguirejr]

Basketball today (especially the way the post is officiated) does NOT favor the "back to the basket" big man....that is in Hopes favor.
 

Couldn't disagree with you more.  A quality low post player with good footwork is invaluable to his team.  Aultman and Crawford the last 2 years in the MIAA show what a presence in the low post can do for a team.  The problem as I see it is, most big men want to play small and hang out by the three point line.  Someone like Mantel could dominate if he develops the fundamentals to play in the low post and learns to pass out of the post when double teams come.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Basketball today (especially the way the post is officiated) does NOT favor the "back to the basket" big man....that is in Hopes favor.
 

Couldn't disagree with you more.  A quality low post player with good footwork is invaluable to his team.  Aultman and Crawford the last 2 years in the MIAA show what a presence in the low post can do for a team.  The problem as I see it is, most big men want to play small and hang out by the three point line.  Someone like Mantel could dominate if he develops the fundamentals to play in the low post and learns to pass out of the post when double teams come.

Al - I agree completely.  What is it that makes those big guys all want to play like they're guards.  Wonder if it's some kind of European influence - since that seems to be more of their style of play.

[kresgekrazy]

Ben and Bill encounter trouble on their way out of Amsterdam

[HopeConvert]

Whether he was suggesting it or not, it is the truth.  I went to Calvin from '90-'94 and you had to get to the gym during the JV game if you wanted to sit in the student section.

I was at the Calvin-Albion game a couple of weeks ago, and the student section was only 1/4 full of students at best.  I go to 1 or 2 games a year and student attendance is WAY, WAY down from what is was about 10 years ago.

Not sure why.

Attendance is down for many reasons.  First of all, Calvin is an academically rich and diverse school and has much more to offer than just basketball.  During January, a prime month for basketball, 1/3 of the student body is overseas studying during the interim program.  Many of those that remain on campus simply show up for the Hope game to take a look across the way and say, "there but for the grace of God, go I."

Wow. Well, next time someone asks me why I converted, I'll just give them a copy of this.

[NW Hope Fan]

IK's student section has flat out been awful over the past  5 or so years.  This year,  they had a solid contingent at the Tri-State game, but the kids  just stood there and did nothing.  Gone are the days of the Stingers, coming into AAC single file about 2 minutes before tip,  all painted up, and ready to go nutso on the opposing team.

Gone are the days of your leader... Smokin' Joe! Everything changed when Coach Joe left... He brought toughness to K basketball, and "encouraged/supported" the stingers... no?? On the other hand, I'm sure no one outside of (and maybe some inside) K miss the drunken stupidness...

[almcguirejr]

Al - I agree completely.  What is it that makes those big guys all want to play like they're guards.  Wonder if it's some kind of European influence - since that seems to be more of their style of play.

I attribute some of it to the ESPNification of sports.  They show highlights of 3's and dunks.  Also, it seems the mid- range jumper is on the endangered list because why not step back a few feet, check where your feet are, and let it fly.  Hope, for example, they celebrate the 3 by having someone in the Dew crew put something on the wall after a made 3.  I'm not being critical of that, but it is what we put the emphasis on.  The old fashioned 3 of a basket and a foul is not celebrated. 

[KnightSlappy]

As we all know the three pointer in the college game is much closer than in the NBA.  Making it much more of a mid-range shot.  I do agree that big men tend to play outside way too much.  I would much rather see Big John Mantel go down low than put up the three. (He has taken WAY too many in my opinion.)  If you have a big body, use it!

[Dew Nation]

Basketball today (especially the way the post is officiated) does NOT favor the "back to the basket" big man....that is in Hopes favor.
 

Couldn't disagree with you more.  A quality low post player with good footwork is invaluable to his team.  Aultman and Crawford the last 2 years in the MIAA show what a presence in the low post can do for a team.  The problem as I see it is, most big men want to play small and hang out by the three point line.  Someone like Mantel could dominate if he develops the fundamentals to play in the low post and learns to pass out of the post when double teams come.

I think it is important to note that Hope would love a real big man.  It is the only thing that people questions about them and they have a hard time ever posing up their bigs.  VH gets the most with his back to the basket and that isn't even as often as it should be.  It isnt that Hope has chosen to have a team with no center that can score it is that they haven't been able to land one.  Appearantly noone else in the league has outside of Mantel (who was a "lock" to come to Hope according to those close to the program.  Obviously he changed his mind at the last minute for whatever reason).

[NW Hope Fan]

Appearantly noone else in the league has outside of Mantel (who was a "lock" to come to Hope according to those close to the program.  Obviously he changed his mind at the last minute for whatever reason).

Wonder what his mom has to say about that... Not that she will. 

[almcguirejr]

Out of 403 Division 3 Teams, here's how the MIAA teams rank in the current Massey ratings (adjusted for margin of victory)

    8.  Hope
  92.  Tri-State
112.  Calvin
185.  Adrian
249.  Albion
308.  Olivet
337.  Kalamazoo
362.  Alma

The MIAA as a league is ranked 24th.

I don't pretend to know what all this means, but I saw that Mr. Sager posted the CCIW rankings on their board and I thought it would be interesting to see where the MIAA teams fall in the rankings.  Unfortunately most have fallen to the bottom. 

[sac]

Appearantly noone else in the league has outside of Mantel (who was a "lock" to come to Hope according to those close to the program.  Obviously he changed his mind at the last minute for whatever reason).

Wonder what his mom has to say about that... Not that she will. 

I probably get the same forwarded emails about recruits as the "insiders" and Mantel was NEVER regarded as a "lock", in fact most of the time they seemed to think he was a bit of a longshot.

Dex Batista was the one most thought was a lock for Hope, he ended up at Wooster.