MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[GoKnights68]

Embarassed: As a Hope student and college student in general, I'm extremely embarassed at the poor sportsmanship displayed on both sidelines. To whomever decided that sending a small child to 400 screaming, riled-up college kids in a rivalry like this was a good idea: shame on you. That child is the scapegoat of a heated competition between men on a basketball court. Don't send him over to the lions den. Where are the parents?

To Mr. Istealflagsfromkidsandgocrazy, are you aware of what you did? The president of the NCAA was in attendance, wearing a Hope colored tie nonetheless, and you had to go and do that. If I were you, I'd be drafting several letters of apology. I almost left the game.



I watched the game on TV, so I didn't get to see any of this.  What exactly happened?  (For the record, I think the sending the kid around to the other side is a little overdone, but what exactly did the Hope fans do?)

Just to respond to the initial posting.....as one of the parents of the child.  We had told him that he could not do his usual crowd routine at the game because we didn't think that the Hope students would be able to handle it with class.  The Hope students came over and brought a "transfer student application" and gave it to the people around him.  One line on the application was 4. We have real cheerleaders not just some dumb little kid with a flag.

He was pretty upset by that and the Calvin students saw that and asked if they could carry him around on their shoulders.  When they were in front of the hope section one of the students grabbed his flag and stomped on it.  I thought it pretty classless of the Hope contingent that they could find nothing better to pick on than a five year old that loves the Knights so much that he begs to attend the games so he can "help" the team by being ball boy and occasionally running with the flag to get the crowd fired up.

You were right to hold your child back from doing his rounds around the court, obviously some students don't have the class to react properly - and I say that with sincerity. In my opinion, your son was the bigger man in that particular instance. The idiot Hope student that took the flag, stomped on it and threw it should be ashamed. As you mentioned, a more representative model of a Hope student was the cheerleader that returned it.

However, I just can't understand why you would let your little boy taunt the Dew Crew from 5 feet away with a Calvin flag.  Firing up your student section momentarily at the risk of angering another? I an no way approve of what happened, but what did you expect? Can you honestly say, with 100% assurance, that Calvin fans (or any others, for that matter) wouldn't have done the same?

Bad situation all-around augmented by bad decisions on both sides.

A couple things:  2005 NCAA tourney first round game vs Wheaton at Wheaton.  Any Calvin fan remember that dude dressed up in a banana suit that kept going over the Calvin student section in the last few minutes to taunt Calvin fans when they(Wheaton) were winning(we got the last laugh)

Last years 2nd round NCAA tourney game Hope vs Calvin.  It seems about 5 nine year old Hope kids kept going over to the Calvin section and pointing at us all when they were winning. Hmmmmmm.



Jees, this is a 5 year old kid we're talking about, who just likes to get the crowd fired up and looks forward to this.  It will be hard for him to do this in the future if there's going to be a controversey like this.  I doubt he's even old enough to know what taunting exactly means.

[jd_knight]

You were right to hold your child back from doing his rounds around the court, obviously some students don't have the class to react properly - and I say that with sincerity. In my opinion, your son was the bigger man in that particular instance. The idiot Hope student that took the flag, stomped on it and threw it should be ashamed. As you mentioned, a more representative model of a Hope student was the cheerleader that returned it.

However, I just can't understand why you would let your little boy taunt the Dew Crew from 5 feet away with a Calvin flag.  Firing up your student section momentarily at the risk of angering another? I an no way approve of what happened, but what did you expect? Can you honestly say, with 100% assurance, that Calvin fans (or any others, for that matter) wouldn't have done the same?

Bad situation all-around augmented by bad decisions on both sides.

The decision to let him go with the Calvin students, who he has come to know quite well over the last couple years, was in response to the initial "letter" that the Hope students brought over and basically threw in his face.  He may be only five but he can read quite well and he was visibly dismayed by that and the Calvin students were attempting to show him that they don't think he is dumb and that they love him. 

He started running his laps as a 2 1/2 or 3 year old as a way to burn off energy so he could stand sitting in the seats for the 2nd half.  Due to the response he has received, home or away (up until this year) it has become a tradition and almost a job in his mind.  This year is the first time that any student section has audibly booed him (last game at Calvin) or physically approached him.  Therefore, in most peoples mind it would not seem like a big deal to have him run.  Most people in the sections near us are encouraging him to do it more when the crowd gets a little quite. 

I can say with almost that level of assurance that they would not have done anything like that based on last years game at Calvin when your fans had a little girl with a cheerleader uniform on do the same type thing.  Like I said the only reason we had any hesitation in the first place was the audible booing from the last game.

[sac]

Keep it in perspective folks, at least you can take a 5 year old to this game.

I was at a game this past weekend where you'd be answering alot of questions about what alot of colorfull words mean.

[Pat Coleman]

Keep it in perspective folks, at least you can take a 5 year old to this game.

I was at a game this past weekend where you'd be answering alot of questions about what alot of colorfull words mean.

Kinda sounds like you're trying to spin a pretty bad-sounding incident. Might be worth just letting it go. Not sure what perspective really is called for here.

[NW Hope Fan]

Keep it in perspective folks, at least you can take a 5 year old to this game.

I was at a game this past weekend where you'd be answering alot of questions about what alot of colorfull words mean.

Kinda sounds like you're trying to spin a pretty bad-sounding incident. Might be worth just letting it go. Not sure what perspective really is called for here.

As Always... Thanks Pat! 

[NW Hope Fan]

By the way, I saw someone wearing an orange WWKVSD shirt tonight. Anyone on here?

ES and VG... And hopefully I have one in the mail w/ my name on it.

[Gregory Sager]

A couple things:  2005 NCAA tourney first round game vs Wheaton at Wheaton.  Any Calvin fan remember that dude dressed up in a banana suit that kept going over the Calvin student section in the last few minutes to taunt Calvin fans when they(Wheaton) were winning(we got the last laugh)

C'mon, stop and think about that for a moment. It was a dude dressed up in a banana suit. How hypersensitive do you have to be to be offended by anything said or done by a guy in a banana suit? If he's taunting you, all you have to do is simply say, "Hey ... you're dressed in a banana suit!", and you automatically win.

Besides, the guy in the gorilla suit always got Banana Suit Guy in the end.

[Dark Knight]

I still think the MIAA is having a below-average year, but I think they're a lot closer to average than they were in December.

The MIAA was typically in the #25-30 range in the Massey conference ranking list, and now they're listed at #23. However, once the conference season starts, teams don't play out-of-conference teams very often and relative conference rankings get almost frozen.

Meanwhile, three MIAA teams have made significant improvements, it seems to me. Adrian went through the pre-conference at 1-8, picked up a D-I transfer, and has been 7-4 since. Albion and Calvin have also picked up their level of play considerably. Hope seems to have improved since December as well, for that matter, though it's harder to tell if they've improved more than the average DIII team.

If the MIAA were at its typical level of about #6 or #7, they'd have an average power rating of about 0. As it is, they conference average power rating is about -6.85, but that was essentially locked in place at the end of December.

If three teams are 10 points per game stronger than in December, as seems plausible to me, that'd raise MIAA to about #12 in the conference ranking, more than half way back to their typical strength.

[ziggy]

A couple things:  2005 NCAA tourney first round game vs Wheaton at Wheaton.  Any Calvin fan remember that dude dressed up in a banana suit that kept going over the Calvin student section in the last few minutes to taunt Calvin fans when they(Wheaton) were winning(we got the last laugh)

Also at that Wheaton game, don't forget about the guy that had something written on this shirtless body (still don't know what it was) and ran around with a "flag" made from a snow shovel and a pink blanket.  I had heard he was a French exchange student, guess that would explain it all.

[oldknight]

Some thoughts(watched the game on TV)

-I thought Calvin also missed some easy shots down low, at least in the 2nd half



-Don't know what happened to Calvin's offense during Hope's comeback period.  They were moving the ball too much behind the arc and weren't getting it down low too much.

-

Calvin missed some short shots down low in the 2nd half--they weren't easy. Hope's defense in the second half was outstanding and combined with Reimink's outrageous shooting got Hope back into the game.

What happened to Calvin's offense during the second half is the fact that Hope turned up the pressure a couple of notches both in the half court and in the full court. Hope started the game with full court pressure and several times Calvin was able to break it with a long entry pass--usually to Griffin who took it to the hole for some quick scores that helped build the early lead and give the Knights momentum. Hope eventually had to call off the press to right the ship. In the second half Dutch full court pressure was much more effective leading to more turnovers and causing the Knights to take more time before even getting into their offense. I'm not sure why Calvin didn't use the long entry pass in the second half--I'd have to watch tape and KVS doesn't usually loan me his copy.

[ziggy]

Calvin missed some short shots down low in the 2nd half--they weren't easy. Hope's defense in the second half was outstanding and combined with Reimink's outrageous shooting got Hope back into the game.

What happened to Calvin's offense during the second half is the fact that Hope turned up the pressure a couple of notches both in the half court and in the full court.
[/quotte]

To me, Calvin settled for too many jump shots in the half court set during their second half cold spell.  I would have liked to have seen them continuing the aggression that got them that lead by challenging the basket.

[Stinger]

  Comic note: a student read the NCAA and MIAA rules on fan behavior before the game.

What was up with that?  Were we sucking up to Myles Brand?  Reading things like that does not change anyone's conduct at the game.

The MIAA statement is supposed to be read before every sporting event by a student-athlete from the host school.  It shouldn't be odd, or comic , it's what is supposed to happen.

[ziggy]

  Comic note: a student read the NCAA and MIAA rules on fan behavior before the game.

What was up with that?  Were we sucking up to Myles Brand?  Reading things like that does not change anyone's conduct at the game.

The MIAA statement is supposed to be read before every sporting event by a student-athlete from the host school.  It shouldn't be odd, or comic , it's what is supposed to happen.

Correct, although I think it is typically done by the PA announcer

[almcguirejr]

[
To me, Calvin settled for too many jump shots in the half court set during their second half cold spell.  I would have liked to have seen them continuing the aggression that got them that lead by challenging the basket.

From the 13:21 mark to the 7:50 mark of the second half Calvin was held without a point.  Calvin had some  poor possessions in that stretch where they were out of control, only 1 or 2 passes before a shot went up, or we just didn't move the ball well.

  Comic note: a student read the NCAA and MIAA rules on fan behavior before the game.

What was up with that?  Were we sucking up to Myles Brand?  Reading things like that does not change anyone's conduct at the game.

The MIAA statement is supposed to be read before every sporting event by a student-athlete from the host school.  It shouldn't be odd, or comic , it's what is supposed to happen.

I've been to a lot of games and I don't remember this being read one time.  I have never heard it at a Calvin game.  I believe 99.9% of the fans tune these kind of things out. 

[Flying Dutch Fan]

You were right to hold your child back from doing his rounds around the court, obviously some students don't have the class to react properly - and I say that with sincerity. In my opinion, your son was the bigger man in that particular instance. The idiot Hope student that took the flag, stomped on it and threw it should be ashamed. As you mentioned, a more representative model of a Hope student was the cheerleader that returned it.

However, I just can't understand why you would let your little boy taunt the Dew Crew from 5 feet away with a Calvin flag.  Firing up your student section momentarily at the risk of angering another? I an no way approve of what happened, but what did you expect? Can you honestly say, with 100% assurance, that Calvin fans (or any others, for that matter) wouldn't have done the same?

Bad situation all-around augmented by bad decisions on both sides.

The decision to let him go with the Calvin students, who he has come to know quite well over the last couple years, was in response to the initial "letter" that the Hope students brought over and basically threw in his face.  He may be only five but he can read quite well and he was visibly dismayed by that and the Calvin students were attempting to show him that they don't think he is dumb and that they love him. 

He started running his laps as a 2 1/2 or 3 year old as a way to burn off energy so he could stand sitting in the seats for the 2nd half.  Due to the response he has received, home or away (up until this year) it has become a tradition and almost a job in his mind.  This year is the first time that any student section has audibly booed him (last game at Calvin) or physically approached him.  Therefore, in most peoples mind it would not seem like a big deal to have him run.  Most people in the sections near us are encouraging him to do it more when the crowd gets a little quite. 

I can say with almost that level of assurance that they would not have done anything like that based on last years game at Calvin when your fans had a little girl with a cheerleader uniform on do the same type thing.  Like I said the only reason we had any hesitation in the first place was the audible booing from the last game.

I know I should let sleeping dogs lie, but this has to be said.  The first time or two that the young man with the flag went around the floor, it was fine.  One time the Dew Crew just turned their backs to him and his posse (a couple of Calvin students).  The problem occured when during halftime, while the Hope Pom-Pon squad was performing, he was hoisted on someone's shoulders and paraded around the arena - totally classless - there were students on the floor performing for the crowd.  Please don't take this wrong, I'm not saying the young man did anything wrong, it was the Calvin student carrying him who crossed that line.  The Hope students were reacting to the timing of the act - and their actions just compounded the problem.