MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[oldknight]

My jaw dropped when I figured this one out

1957

Calvin 64, Hope 61  at Hope
Hope 89, Calvin 62   at Calvin

Pretty sure this was pre-Calvin Fieldhouse

..........I believe Oldknight played in those games, maybe he could provide details.

The agreement to purchase the Knollcrest farm was in 1956, construction began that year.  I'm guessing it may have been the first Calvin/Hope game in the fieldhouse.

I think the fieldhouse opened in 1964

The Fieldhouse opened for the 65-66 season. I remember it well because I was on the last of the 10 Kronemeyer sisters that year.

[almcguirejr]

I remember it well because I was on the last of the 10 Kronemeyer sisters that year.

I'm surprised she could support your weight. 

[oldknight]

I remember it well because I was on the last of the 10 Kronemeyer sisters that year.

I'm surprised she could support your weight. 

I guess a rephrase is in order. I was dating the last of the 10 Kronemeyer sisters that year.

[David Collinge]

I remember the loss better than the win. It was my senior year at the old Grand Rapids Civic Auditorium and my last game against the Dutch (please note my use of gender-inclusive language--now you know why my friends always refer to me as "Mr. Sensitivity"). Early in the game in one injudicious aside to Hope coach Russ DeVette, and in a foolish attempt to trash talk the Hope bench (I wasn't the mature OldKnight you know me to be today), I mentioned that Hope center Paul Benes appeared to be playing in wooden shoes. The referee (Todd Geerlings' grandfather) overheard the conversation and tossed me. With no one left to get Tom Newhof the ball, Benes had his way in the paint and Hope dominated the rest of the way. Like the 65' game the Knights got ripped by the officials but I think it was the moxie I showed before leaving the game that got the 10 Kronemeyer sisters interested in me. 

I'm giving you karma for this only because it's not within my power to give you the Pulitzer Prize. 

[KnightSlappy]

I decided to chime in on the MVP debate.  I think as of right now, Cramer is the frontrunner but I think Derek Griffin's name should be thrown in the mix. 

I put together some very simple calculations, ranking players in pts/40 min, reb/40 min, asst/40 min, TO/40 min, and FG%.  The result of the rankings: Cramer and Griffin tied for the top spot, Isaac Smith 3rd, and Van Solkema at the fourth spot.

[arena]

You were right to hold your child back from doing his rounds around the court, obviously some students don't have the class to react properly - and I say that with sincerity. In my opinion, your son was the bigger man in that particular instance. The idiot Hope student that took the flag, stomped on it and threw it should be ashamed. As you mentioned, a more representative model of a Hope student was the cheerleader that returned it.

However, I just can't understand why you would let your little boy taunt the Dew Crew from 5 feet away with a Calvin flag.  Firing up your student section momentarily at the risk of angering another? I an no way approve of what happened, but what did you expect? Can you honestly say, with 100% assurance, that Calvin fans (or any others, for that matter) wouldn't have done the same?

Bad situation all-around augmented by bad decisions on both sides.

The decision to let him go with the Calvin students, who he has come to know quite well over the last couple years, was in response to the initial "letter" that the Hope students brought over and basically threw in his face.  He may be only five but he can read quite well and he was visibly dismayed by that and the Calvin students were attempting to show him that they don't think he is dumb and that they love him. 

He started running his laps as a 2 1/2 or 3 year old as a way to burn off energy so he could stand sitting in the seats for the 2nd half.  Due to the response he has received, home or away (up until this year) it has become a tradition and almost a job in his mind.  This year is the first time that any student section has audibly booed him (last game at Calvin) or physically approached him.  Therefore, in most peoples mind it would not seem like a big deal to have him run.  Most people in the sections near us are encouraging him to do it more when the crowd gets a little quite. 

I can say with almost that level of assurance that they would not have done anything like that based on last years game at Calvin when your fans had a little girl with a cheerleader uniform on do the same type thing.  Like I said the only reason we had any hesitation in the first place was the audible booing from the last game.

I know I should let sleeping dogs lie, but this has to be said.  The first time or two that the young man with the flag went around the floor, it was fine.  One time the Dew Crew just turned their backs to him and his posse (a couple of Calvin students).  The problem occured when during halftime, while the Hope Pom-Pon squad was performing, he was hoisted on someone's shoulders and paraded around the arena - totally classless - there were students on the floor performing for the crowd.  Please don't take this wrong, I'm not saying the young man did anything wrong, it was the Calvin student carrying him who crossed that line.  The Hope students were reacting to the timing of the act - and their actions just compounded the problem.

Did you tell all those who were walking to concessions to not do that so as not to bother those trying to watch the half time show?

I can't believe the lengths some will go to justify the bad behavior of the students involved.

[Civic Minded]

You were right to hold your child back from doing his rounds around the court, obviously some students don't have the class to react properly - and I say that with sincerity. In my opinion, your son was the bigger man in that particular instance. The idiot Hope student that took the flag, stomped on it and threw it should be ashamed. As you mentioned, a more representative model of a Hope student was the cheerleader that returned it.

However, I just can't understand why you would let your little boy taunt the Dew Crew from 5 feet away with a Calvin flag.  Firing up your student section momentarily at the risk of angering another? I an no way approve of what happened, but what did you expect? Can you honestly say, with 100% assurance, that Calvin fans (or any others, for that matter) wouldn't have done the same?

Bad situation all-around augmented by bad decisions on both sides.

The decision to let him go with the Calvin students, who he has come to know quite well over the last couple years, was in response to the initial "letter" that the Hope students brought over and basically threw in his face.  He may be only five but he can read quite well and he was visibly dismayed by that and the Calvin students were attempting to show him that they don't think he is dumb and that they love him. 

He started running his laps as a 2 1/2 or 3 year old as a way to burn off energy so he could stand sitting in the seats for the 2nd half.  Due to the response he has received, home or away (up until this year) it has become a tradition and almost a job in his mind.  This year is the first time that any student section has audibly booed him (last game at Calvin) or physically approached him.  Therefore, in most peoples mind it would not seem like a big deal to have him run.  Most people in the sections near us are encouraging him to do it more when the crowd gets a little quite. 

I can say with almost that level of assurance that they would not have done anything like that based on last years game at Calvin when your fans had a little girl with a cheerleader uniform on do the same type thing.  Like I said the only reason we had any hesitation in the first place was the audible booing from the last game.

I know I should let sleeping dogs lie, but this has to be said.  The first time or two that the young man with the flag went around the floor, it was fine.  One time the Dew Crew just turned their backs to him and his posse (a couple of Calvin students).  The problem occured when during halftime, while the Hope Pom-Pon squad was performing, he was hoisted on someone's shoulders and paraded around the arena - totally classless - there were students on the floor performing for the crowd.  Please don't take this wrong, I'm not saying the young man did anything wrong, it was the Calvin student carrying him who crossed that line.  The Hope students were reacting to the timing of the act - and their actions just compounded the problem.

Did you tell all those who were walking to concessions to not do that so as not to bother those trying to watch the half time show?

I can't believe the lengths some will go to justify the bad behavior of the students involved.

Honest to Pete.  Are all of you Calvin fans so thick headed?  Is it a 101 class, or what?

[ChicagoHopeNut]

You were right to hold your child back from doing his rounds around the court, obviously some students don't have the class to react properly - and I say that with sincerity. In my opinion, your son was the bigger man in that particular instance. The idiot Hope student that took the flag, stomped on it and threw it should be ashamed. As you mentioned, a more representative model of a Hope student was the cheerleader that returned it.

However, I just can't understand why you would let your little boy taunt the Dew Crew from 5 feet away with a Calvin flag.  Firing up your student section momentarily at the risk of angering another? I an no way approve of what happened, but what did you expect? Can you honestly say, with 100% assurance, that Calvin fans (or any others, for that matter) wouldn't have done the same?

Bad situation all-around augmented by bad decisions on both sides.

The decision to let him go with the Calvin students, who he has come to know quite well over the last couple years, was in response to the initial "letter" that the Hope students brought over and basically threw in his face.  He may be only five but he can read quite well and he was visibly dismayed by that and the Calvin students were attempting to show him that they don't think he is dumb and that they love him. 

He started running his laps as a 2 1/2 or 3 year old as a way to burn off energy so he could stand sitting in the seats for the 2nd half.  Due to the response he has received, home or away (up until this year) it has become a tradition and almost a job in his mind.  This year is the first time that any student section has audibly booed him (last game at Calvin) or physically approached him.  Therefore, in most peoples mind it would not seem like a big deal to have him run.  Most people in the sections near us are encouraging him to do it more when the crowd gets a little quite. 

I can say with almost that level of assurance that they would not have done anything like that based on last years game at Calvin when your fans had a little girl with a cheerleader uniform on do the same type thing.  Like I said the only reason we had any hesitation in the first place was the audible booing from the last game.

I know I should let sleeping dogs lie, but this has to be said.  The first time or two that the young man with the flag went around the floor, it was fine.  One time the Dew Crew just turned their backs to him and his posse (a couple of Calvin students).  The problem occured when during halftime, while the Hope Pom-Pon squad was performing, he was hoisted on someone's shoulders and paraded around the arena - totally classless - there were students on the floor performing for the crowd.  Please don't take this wrong, I'm not saying the young man did anything wrong, it was the Calvin student carrying him who crossed that line.  The Hope students were reacting to the timing of the act - and their actions just compounded the problem.

Did you tell all those who were walking to concessions to not do that so as not to bother those trying to watch the half time show?

I can't believe the lengths some will go to justify the bad behavior of the students involved.

I don't think that is a valid comparison at all.

Moreover, I think when all is said and done. Any fan, at any age, alone or accompanied should not parade in front of the opposing teams fan section, either at home or on the road. I do not condone the actions of the Hope student but I also don't think its right for a Calvin student to parade in front of the Dew Crew using a 5 year old as "protection." No one would be nearly as upset if a Calvin student paraded in front of the Dew Crew and had a flag stolen from him (not that that would make taking the flag right either.) The Calvin student used a 5 year old child as protection to engage in taunting and did it at a particularly inappropriate time. They easily could have waited and done it after the Pom Pon routine was over and that is the point being made by others.

[arena]

You were right to hold your child back from doing his rounds around the court, obviously some students don't have the class to react properly - and I say that with sincerity. In my opinion, your son was the bigger man in that particular instance. The idiot Hope student that took the flag, stomped on it and threw it should be ashamed. As you mentioned, a more representative model of a Hope student was the cheerleader that returned it.

However, I just can't understand why you would let your little boy taunt the Dew Crew from 5 feet away with a Calvin flag.  Firing up your student section momentarily at the risk of angering another? I an no way approve of what happened, but what did you expect? Can you honestly say, with 100% assurance, that Calvin fans (or any others, for that matter) wouldn't have done the same?

Bad situation all-around augmented by bad decisions on both sides.

The decision to let him go with the Calvin students, who he has come to know quite well over the last couple years, was in response to the initial "letter" that the Hope students brought over and basically threw in his face.  He may be only five but he can read quite well and he was visibly dismayed by that and the Calvin students were attempting to show him that they don't think he is dumb and that they love him. 

He started running his laps as a 2 1/2 or 3 year old as a way to burn off energy so he could stand sitting in the seats for the 2nd half.  Due to the response he has received, home or away (up until this year) it has become a tradition and almost a job in his mind.  This year is the first time that any student section has audibly booed him (last game at Calvin) or physically approached him.  Therefore, in most peoples mind it would not seem like a big deal to have him run.  Most people in the sections near us are encouraging him to do it more when the crowd gets a little quite. 

I can say with almost that level of assurance that they would not have done anything like that based on last years game at Calvin when your fans had a little girl with a cheerleader uniform on do the same type thing.  Like I said the only reason we had any hesitation in the first place was the audible booing from the last game.

I know I should let sleeping dogs lie, but this has to be said.  The first time or two that the young man with the flag went around the floor, it was fine.  One time the Dew Crew just turned their backs to him and his posse (a couple of Calvin students).  The problem occured when during halftime, while the Hope Pom-Pon squad was performing, he was hoisted on someone's shoulders and paraded around the arena - totally classless - there were students on the floor performing for the crowd.  Please don't take this wrong, I'm not saying the young man did anything wrong, it was the Calvin student carrying him who crossed that line.  The Hope students were reacting to the timing of the act - and their actions just compounded the problem.

Did you tell all those who were walking to concessions to not do that so as not to bother those trying to watch the half time show?

I can't believe the lengths some will go to justify the bad behavior of the students involved.

Honest to Pete.  Are all of you Calvin fans so thick headed?  Is it a 101 class, or what?

So, now we've come to ad-homs on this board?

Your placing the blame on the kid is crazy.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Wow, that didn't take long for my karma to take a hit for stating a very reserved opinion.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Your placing the blame on the kid is crazy.

I don't think anyone blames the 5 year old. He's 5, he doesn't know what stupid things happen at sporting events. I think the blame is on the Calvin students who took him over there. That does not in any way at all excuse the "letter thrown at the Calvin student section that made fun of the boy" or the dumb Hope student who took the flag. The point is that everyone made bad decisions.

[arena]

You were right to hold your child back from doing his rounds around the court, obviously some students don't have the class to react properly - and I say that with sincerity. In my opinion, your son was the bigger man in that particular instance. The idiot Hope student that took the flag, stomped on it and threw it should be ashamed. As you mentioned, a more representative model of a Hope student was the cheerleader that returned it.

However, I just can't understand why you would let your little boy taunt the Dew Crew from 5 feet away with a Calvin flag.  Firing up your student section momentarily at the risk of angering another? I an no way approve of what happened, but what did you expect? Can you honestly say, with 100% assurance, that Calvin fans (or any others, for that matter) wouldn't have done the same?

Bad situation all-around augmented by bad decisions on both sides.

The decision to let him go with the Calvin students, who he has come to know quite well over the last couple years, was in response to the initial "letter" that the Hope students brought over and basically threw in his face.  He may be only five but he can read quite well and he was visibly dismayed by that and the Calvin students were attempting to show him that they don't think he is dumb and that they love him. 

He started running his laps as a 2 1/2 or 3 year old as a way to burn off energy so he could stand sitting in the seats for the 2nd half.  Due to the response he has received, home or away (up until this year) it has become a tradition and almost a job in his mind.  This year is the first time that any student section has audibly booed him (last game at Calvin) or physically approached him.  Therefore, in most peoples mind it would not seem like a big deal to have him run.  Most people in the sections near us are encouraging him to do it more when the crowd gets a little quite. 

I can say with almost that level of assurance that they would not have done anything like that based on last years game at Calvin when your fans had a little girl with a cheerleader uniform on do the same type thing.  Like I said the only reason we had any hesitation in the first place was the audible booing from the last game.

I know I should let sleeping dogs lie, but this has to be said.  The first time or two that the young man with the flag went around the floor, it was fine.  One time the Dew Crew just turned their backs to him and his posse (a couple of Calvin students).  The problem occured when during halftime, while the Hope Pom-Pon squad was performing, he was hoisted on someone's shoulders and paraded around the arena - totally classless - there were students on the floor performing for the crowd.  Please don't take this wrong, I'm not saying the young man did anything wrong, it was the Calvin student carrying him who crossed that line.  The Hope students were reacting to the timing of the act - and their actions just compounded the problem.

Did you tell all those who were walking to concessions to not do that so as not to bother those trying to watch the half time show?

I can't believe the lengths some will go to justify the bad behavior of the students involved.

I don't think that is a valid comparison at all.

Moreover, I think when all is said and done. Any fan, at any age, alone or accompanied should not parade in front of the opposing teams fan section, either at home or on the road. I do not condone the actions of the Hope student but I also don't think its right for a Calvin student to parade in front of the Dew Crew using a 5 year old as "protection." No one would be nearly as upset if a Calvin student paraded in front of the Dew Crew and had a flag stolen from him (not that that would make taking the flag right either.) The Calvin student used a 5 year old child as protection to engage in taunting and did it at a particularly inappropriate time. They easily could have waited and done it after the Pom Pon routine was over and that is the point being made by others.

It seems to me there is some residual bitterness of the loss last night that being projected on the kid.

[arena]

Wow, that didn't take long for my karma to take a hit for stating a very reserved opinion.

Or mine to get hit either.......

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Wow, that didn't take long for my karma to take a hit for stating a very reserved opinion.

Or mine to get hit either.......

The next time you post a reserved opinion (which would be the first time ever) you will find that it doesn't affect your karma.

[arena]

Wow, that didn't take long for my karma to take a hit for stating a very reserved opinion.

Or mine to get hit either.......

The next time you post a reserved opinion (which would be the first time ever) you will find that it doesn't affect your karma.

LOL  Too funny.

I've gone back and looked at my responses to see if I've been out of line.  I've looked at other posters comments about this incident.  Mine are no less reserved or unreserved than those. 

You can think what you will.  I can't change that.