MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Civic Minded]

Is it just me, or do the numbers indicate that Hope fans get smitten more than Calvin fans? Is this some sort of system of double predestination: the Calvin fans reward each other and damn the Hopesters? What type of harsh justice is in the knights' soul? Then again, the RCA has always had a kinder, gentler Calvinism.

Splendid deduction Watson!

between sympathy applauds I lost 10 on Wednesday night alone........imagine if Calvin had lost.  

You might also want to look back at those posts -- even Calvin fans sometimes have reasons for their smites. Saying that you want to knife someone may be crossing the line in some people's books, even if said with a smile on your face.

Personally, I rarely smite, unless the post involves name-calling, ad hominem, etc. I applaud more frequently, when posts make me laugh or are very informative or witty.

IMHO, I think it depends to a large extent on the smitiness (smiticity? smititude?), or perception of being offended, of the smiter, and the smitibility, or perception of being an offender, of the smitee.    To delve any deeper, we might want opinions from the barristers on the board.  

RR

NOW we can drag out the picture of the deceased equine...   

[AndersDY]

NOW we can drag out the picture of the deceased equine...   

Take your pick:





What ever did we do without Google?

[Dark Knight]

The new poll is out. Hope at 10; no votes for Calvin. I would say this, there are teams that got votes that, if CAlvin were to play them right now, I'd put my money and Calvin (and that is not a shameless attempt to grab some karma either).

That is, of course, if I were to BET on a game. That is clearly not in keeping with the tradition. But I suppose if we are using Hindu theology, we can just as easily circumvent gambling restrictions.

That's one problem with the national polls. Many pollsters treat the whole season the same, as though teams don't progress, have injuries, etc. A loss back in November is still a loss. Massey does a little better by weighting more recent games more heavily over the course of the year. In the latest Massey rating Calvin jumped 44 places, from #103 to #59. Hope went from #6 to #20.

[ziggy]

The new poll is out. Hope at 10; no votes for Calvin. I would say this, there are teams that got votes that, if CAlvin were to play them right now, I'd put my money and Calvin (and that is not a shameless attempt to grab some karma either).

That is, of course, if I were to BET on a game. That is clearly not in keeping with the tradition. But I suppose if we are using Hindu theology, we can just as easily circumvent gambling restrictions.

That's one problem with the national polls. Many pollsters treat the whole season the same, as though teams don't progress, have injuries, etc. A loss back in November is still a loss. Massey does a little better by weighting more recent games more heavily over the course of the year. In the latest Massey rating Calvin jumped 44 places, from #103 to #59. Hope went from #6 to #20.

The poll is less of a problem to me than the national tournament which doesn't allow for the best possible field to compete.  Polls are just opinions but the tournament should be for the nation's best to settle it out on the floor.  It's a shame that some legit teams don't even get the chance.  If Calvin runs the table only to lose in a close one to Hope in the MIAA championship game I think they would be deserving of a spot in the big tourney, but they wouldn't get one.

[ziggy]

The new poll is out. Hope at 10; no votes for Calvin. I would say this, there are teams that got votes that, if CAlvin were to play them right now, I'd put my money and Calvin (and that is not a shameless attempt to grab some karma either).

I wish we could see the Mose Hole tournament played at this point in the season.  Those were Barometer games for Calvin at a time they really weren't ready for them.

[Mr. Ypsi]

The new poll is out. Hope at 10; no votes for Calvin. I would say this, there are teams that got votes that, if CAlvin were to play them right now, I'd put my money and Calvin (and that is not a shameless attempt to grab some karma either).

That is, of course, if I were to BET on a game. That is clearly not in keeping with the tradition. But I suppose if we are using Hindu theology, we can just as easily circumvent gambling restrictions.

That's one problem with the national polls. Many pollsters treat the whole season the same, as though teams don't progress, have injuries, etc. A loss back in November is still a loss. Massey does a little better by weighting more recent games more heavily over the course of the year. In the latest Massey rating Calvin jumped 44 places, from #103 to #59. Hope went from #6 to #20.

That MAY be true of a handful of voters, but I seriously doubt it is true in general.  There is inevitably a certain 'inertia' to the process (where early beliefs still hold some sway over current interpretations of outcomes), but I'm confident that most voters take their last ballot as a starting point, and adjust as needed based upon THIS week's games.  And voters (unlike tournament selection committees) DO take into account extenuating factors such as injuries, improvement over time, etc.

[Pat Coleman]

The new poll is out. Hope at 10; no votes for Calvin. I would say this, there are teams that got votes that, if CAlvin were to play them right now, I'd put my money and Calvin

Unfortunately they can't replay the Wheaton, Carthage and La Crosse games, among others. Those are just teams getting votes.

[Pat Coleman]

That's one problem with the national polls. Many pollsters treat the whole season the same, as though teams don't progress, have injuries, etc. A loss back in November is still a loss. Massey does a little better by weighting more recent games more heavily over the course of the year. In the latest Massey rating Calvin jumped 44 places, from #103 to #59. Hope went from #6 to #20.

Who's to say that our voters didn't jump Calvin 44 spots too? No. 59 doesn't make our poll.

[Dark Knight]

The new poll is out. Hope at 10; no votes for Calvin. I would say this, there are teams that got votes that, if CAlvin were to play them right now, I'd put my money and Calvin (and that is not a shameless attempt to grab some karma either).

That is, of course, if I were to BET on a game. That is clearly not in keeping with the tradition. But I suppose if we are using Hindu theology, we can just as easily circumvent gambling restrictions.

That's one problem with the national polls. Many pollsters treat the whole season the same, as though teams don't progress, have injuries, etc. A loss back in November is still a loss. Massey does a little better by weighting more recent games more heavily over the course of the year. In the latest Massey rating Calvin jumped 44 places, from #103 to #59. Hope went from #6 to #20.

That MAY be true of a handful of voters, but I seriously doubt it is true in general.  There is inevitably a certain 'inertia' to the process (where early beliefs still hold some sway over current interpretations of outcomes), but I'm confident that most voters take their last ballot as a starting point, and adjust as needed based upon THIS week's games.  And voters (unlike tournament selection committees) DO take into account extenuating factors such as injuries, improvement over time, etc.

That's what I thought too until I read the "Around the Nation" segment where four pollsters "thought out loud." Too much of the reasoning (for my taste) was of the form "Team A beat Team B, so team A should be higher in the poll, ..." etc. This kind of reasoning doesn't take into account that a team can have an exceptionally bad or good game, that a team plays in a weak or strong conference, that a game was early in the season or recent, etc. Of course, there were other lines of reasoning as well.

[almcguirejr]

I wish we could see the Mose Hole tournament played at this point in the season.  Those were Barometer games for Calvin at a time they really weren't ready for them.

I have to disagree with you about these being the barometer games.  These games aren't hurting us.  The barometer games to me are Adrian and Tri-State.  Those were 2 bad losses.  If Calvin does not win the MIAA tournament those 2 games will be the biggest factor in them not being in the NCAA tournament.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Switching topics for a minute: there has been talk about who should be conference MVP (MOP? whatever).  I'm surprised that there has been no mention at all of Desmond Young.  Adrian was 0-8 before he played, is 8-5 since (8-3 against all teams not named Hope).  I'm not necessarily advocating for him (I only saw him for the first half of the Hope @ Adrian game, and that night he stunk up the place though the raw talent was still apparent), just curious that his name has not come up at all.

[oldknight]

Despite its imperfections I think that both the polls and the NCAA's process of admitting teams to post season play is really about as fair as can be. Even though Calvin is clearly a better team than the one we saw a month ago there is undeniable merit to giving higher ranked teams who have been consistent since November an advantage over teams like Calvin who--after a slow and disappointing start--may have caught up with these other teams. Calvin has proven themselves over the last 2-3 weeks to be a very good team. But why should Calvin's recent progress move them into the rankings with teams that have proven themselves to be a very good since November? It shouldn't. Calvin can be thankful that they have been given a second chance to redeem themselves by winning the conference tournament and if they can't do that they have nothing to complain about. The 2005 team seized that second chance after finishing second in the conference and ran with it all the way to Salem. This year's squad is given the same opportunity and Knight fans needn't complain if they can't clear that hurdle. 

[oldknight]

Switching topics for a minute: there has been talk about who should be conference MVP (MOP? whatever).  I'm surprised that there has been no mention at all of Desmond Young.  Adrian was 0-8 before he played, is 8-5 since (8-3 against all teams not named Hope).  I'm not necessarily advocating for him (I only saw him for the first half of the Hope @ Adrian game, and that night he stunk up the place though the raw talent was still apparent), just curious that his name has not come up at all.

That's an excellent point and I had forgotten about Young. Based upon his positive impact on his team's play since the semester break he at least deserves a look. If I had a vote for the award I probably would give him a third place vote.

[almcguirejr]

Switching topics for a minute: there has been talk about who should be conference MVP (MOP? whatever).  I'm surprised that there has been no mention at all of Desmond Young.  Adrian was 0-8 before he played, is 8-5 since (8-3 against all teams not named Hope).  I'm not necessarily advocating for him (I only saw him for the first half of the Hope @ Adrian game, and that night he stunk up the place though the raw talent was still apparent), just curious that his name has not come up at all.

Mr. Ypsi, I thought the reason his name hadn't come up would be a given:


mid season transfer  ( I am trying to provide a little levity)

[Pat Coleman]

That's what I thought too until I read the "Around the Nation" segment where four pollsters "thought out loud." Too much of the reasoning (for my taste) was of the form "Team A beat Team B, so team A should be higher in the poll, ..." etc. This kind of reasoning doesn't take into account that a team can have an exceptionally bad or good game, that a team plays in a weak or strong conference, that a game was early in the season or recent, etc. Of course, there were other lines of reasoning as well.

Plenty.

"Road losses to very good teams do little to affect ranking ie. Wash U's lost at NYU by itself affects little change (losing at Brandeis is more significant)"

In fact, I'm scanning through and nothing jumps out at me in the men's poll that says what you cite above. I'm not reading it very closely so I'm sure you have some reason to say that, but I'd be interested to see what.