MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Mr. Ypsi]

While NYU's FT undergrad enrollment is only about 17,500, their website lists 'over 40,000' students including grad students, international campuses, etc.  I can't think of any other school that would be anywhere close to 40,000.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Turnover sac. Cal-vin bas-ket-ball.

"Back - to - bas - ics..."

I was watching a bit of the Pistons playing at Cleveland a few days ago, and had to laugh at the Cleveland announcer saying:

"De - troit   turn - over"

[realist]

OK: Thanks for the listing.  It is an article most posters should want to read.  It looks to me like the schools have definitely given themselves a very difficult task.  As D3 has grown in size, and more wanting to join every year a possible split does make some sense.  It will be interesting to see what comes out of these discussions.  Not sure D4 has anymore stigma than D3.  Do the high schools in class D feel less happy when they win a championship contested among like sized schools?  Most important to me at this point is how the divisons are structured, and will schools like Calvin and Hope be forced to a different divison (based on size alone) from the rest of the MIAA? 

[ziggy]

The article didn't give anything more than a slew of possible senarios.  Comments ranged from the status quo cannot continue to maybe nothing will happen.  Another possibility was that it would be up to the individual schools to decide how they want to compete.  I would imagine that Calvin and Hope would remain in the traditional DIII becuase of the athletic success they've had while smaller schools that feel they can't compete would choose a DIV or III-b.

My hope is that whatever happens leads to an improvement in the DIII experience for the athletes, schools, and fans.  I take the discussion as a positive and affirmation that DIII is not a forgotten level of the NCAA.

[David Collinge]

Not sure D4 has anymore stigma than D3.  Do the high schools in class D feel less happy when they win a championship contested among like sized schools?  Most important to me at this point is how the divisons are structured, and will schools like Calvin and Hope be forced to a different divison (based on size alone) from the rest of the MIAA? 

But the D3/D4 split, if it happens, will probably not be based on enrollment, like high school classifications (I am assuming that Michigan's Class D is an enrollment-based class.)  It will be more likely to be based on philosophy, which could be described as "commitment to athletics."  Looked at that way, there could very easily be a "stigma" attached to a D4 as being less committed to winning than a D3.  Of course, all of the current D3 bears the stigmata of fewer resources and lower emphasis vis-a-vis D1 and D2, so I don't see how a proposed D4 is really much worse (or, if you will, better) than the current D3 in this regard.

[ziggy]

Not sure D4 has anymore stigma than D3.  Do the high schools in class D feel less happy when they win a championship contested among like sized schools?  Most important to me at this point is how the divisons are structured, and will schools like Calvin and Hope be forced to a different divison (based on size alone) from the rest of the MIAA? 

But the D3/D4 split, if it happens, will probably not be based on enrollment, like high school classifications (I am assuming that Michigan's Class D is an enrollment-based class.)  It will be more likely to be based on philosophy, which could be described as "commitment to athletics."  Looked at that way, there could very easily be a "stigma" attached to a D4 as being less committed to winning than a D3.  Of course, all of the current D3 bears the stigmata of fewer resources and lower emphasis vis-a-vis D1 and D2, so I don't see how a proposed D4 is really much worse (or, if you will, better) than the current D3 in this regard.

You're exactly right about enrollment based classes.  I disagree with you're assessment of the implication of commitment level of a possible D4 school.  I've always thought of the division breakdown as being based on what a school can offer their student athlete.  For example, DI can offer full athletic scholorships and perhaps near professional level facilities, DII can offer partial athletic scholorships, whie DIII as a base philosophy does not allow for athletic scholorships.  A DIII school under a four division system gives the impression that they are committed to giving the student athlete the ability to participate on the highest level against other non-scholorship competition.  If classifications are not done on an enrollment basis, a D4 school would have to overcome the stigma associated with competing in a division lower than other similar schools, even though they are not at a systematic disadvantage to traditional DIII schools.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Not sure D4 has anymore stigma than D3.  Do the high schools in class D feel less happy when they win a championship contested among like sized schools?  Most important to me at this point is how the divisons are structured, and will schools like Calvin and Hope be forced to a different divison (based on size alone) from the rest of the MIAA? 

But the D3/D4 split, if it happens, will probably not be based on enrollment, like high school classifications (I am assuming that Michigan's Class D is an enrollment-based class.)  It will be more likely to be based on philosophy, which could be described as "commitment to athletics."  Looked at that way, there could very easily be a "stigma" attached to a D4 as being less committed to winning than a D3.  Of course, all of the current D3 bears the stigmata of fewer resources and lower emphasis vis-a-vis D1 and D2, so I don't see how a proposed D4 is really much worse (or, if you will, better) than the current D3 in this regard.

I would hope that if we go down this road that DIII vs DIV would count as an in-region game, etc.  If not, the travel budgets of many teams might make regional play prohibitive.

[sac]

I get the joy of braving the weather tonight to see Michigan and Michigan State tangle in an all-important in-region contest that will be pivotal for each teams NCAA hopes.

I'll let you know how it compares to Hope/Calvin. .........at least I know I can get a hotdog at Breslin.


...........who starts a basketball game at 9, I mean really

[goodknight]

...........who starts a basketball game at 9, I mean really

People who are neither prompt nor sincere?

Drive carefully.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

...........who starts a basketball game at 9, I mean really

People who are neither prompt nor sincere?

Drive carefully.

How about...

People who are neither prompt nor sincere but enjoy a good beer?

[gohope]

...........who starts a basketball game at 9, I mean really

People who are neither prompt nor sincere?



Drive carefully.

How about...

People who are neither prompt nor sincere but enjoy a good beer?

FDF - You're a poet and you didn't even know it (that's why your feet are Longfellows!    (Sorry I couldn't resist, it has been a REALLY LONG day! I'll stop now!)

[almcguirejr]

...........who starts a basketball game at 9, I mean really

those who are beholden to  the almighty dollar.

[oldknight]

...........who starts a basketball game at 9, I mean really

People who are neither prompt nor sincere?

GK offered a rather heartless response. Cor meum tibi offero domine prompte et sincere.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

...........who starts a basketball game at 9, I mean really

those who are beholden to  the almighty dollar.

For me 9 is great - I can get some other stuff done around the house, and then enjoy the game (OK, I'll probably watch the second half in bed, but what the heck).  And if this is really a rivalry game it doens't matter what time it's played.

Q. How many fans would show up for a Hope Calvin game at 4am?

A. About 300 more than the gym would hold

[Civic Minded]

...........who starts a basketball game at 9, I mean really

those who are beholden to  the almighty dollar.

Ding ding ding....we have a winner!