MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[realist]

AlMcjr:  In defense of GVW I don't think D3 coaches are standing in line to sign up to play Hope in pre-conference games.  Several non-Hope posters over the years have made comments similar to yours (myself included).   With the CCIW/MIAA challenge I do think GVW is more aware how important pre-conference games are, however it is still difficult to get "quality" programs to play each other.  Personally I would like to see  MIAA/NCAC challenge, and also MIAA/OAC challenge.  Problem with this is the early season L's kill you like people are pointing out with Hope's L's to Carthage, and Wheaton.
Calvin may be a bit more agressive in scheduling "quality" pre-conference games like the one at Wooster this season.  Many of these teams (like Hope) prefer home games so it is hard to get home and home committments.
DC:  Thanks for the heads up on the NYT article board.  Being a creature of habit I many times blow by those screens.

[dumezrules]

Actually, I re-read and it's one pollster twice. You seem to have a problem with the Hope comment -- do you have an answer to that? I would like to know what the signature win is for Hope. The losses are telling but if there were a signature win it might make things different.

It's hard to have a signature win when you dont play any signature teams.....Schools have no control over how good the teams are they are playing, they just have to play the schedule they have......Hope lost to Carthage and Wheaton (both close) early in the year on the road, and to their biggest rival....(would that be a signature loss???) Losses are always telling........why is it that wins are not as telling?  (oops, forgot, you need SIGNATURE wins!!!)!, just beating the H-E-double hockeystick out of the teams you should beat are not as telling?

Hope played a weak non conference schedule this year.  They have control over that.  They should have invited some stronger teams to their Sentinel and DeVette tournaments.  KVS scheduled a very difficult non-conference schedule with a lot less experience coming back than Hope did.  I think GVW should have found 1 or 2 more top 25 caliber DIII teams to play prior to the league season.  I think he would know a lot more about his team than he does right now

This is also why I think Calvin (although I know they wont be) should be considered for Pool C.......Throw out their preseason, look at who they are NOW!

NOW they are a 9-3 team in a weak league.  I think Pool C does throw out their non conference schedule except for the Select Bank loss to Hope.  They are not a Pool C contender because of their losses to Adrian and TSU.  Calvin played themselves into the corner they find themselves in.  They can also play themselves into the NCAA tournament by winning 3 games next week.

I dont get it....we are talking about the viability of teams for the NCAA tourney and you tell me Hope has to schedule better non-conference but in order to count for the tourney you need to schedule in-region games right? I thought the committee only took those into account so playing great teams outside of your region is pointless..both literally and figuratively....(see your comment re Calvin above)....

Your sarcasm is noted about Calvin...I just think they have pretty good talent and are playing very well and together right now.  It would show if they made it into the tournament....

Obviously you know alot more than me and are an expert in this field...I am not at all, just commenting on the validity of having signature wins in a weak league.....(although in any league, wins are harder to come by than in non-league due to familiarity with opponents and motivation)

[ziggy]

Lake Erie College doesn't have a signature win, the difference is that they just haven't lost.  I feel like weak schedules are generally rewarded in DIII as long as you win.  quantity of wins often trumps quality of wins.

[section7]

Random Thought/Question:

If the following scenario happens, is my final assumption correct?:

1.  Hope loses tonight at Alma and Saturday at Tri-State

2.  Calvin wins tonight at Albion and Saturday at KZoo.

Calvin hosts the MIAA tourney due to tri-breaker.

1.  Head-to-Head even
2.  Both lost to Tri-State
3.  Calvin lost to Adrian; Hope lost to Alma.

Higher finisher is Adrian vs Alma, Calvin wins tiebreaker??

[sac]

Under that scenario Section7, Hope would host by virtue of beating Adrian twice, Calvin being 1-1 vs Adrian............if they of course win their first round game next week.

[ziggy]

Under that scenario Section7, Hope would host by virtue of beating Adrian twice, Calvin being 1-1 vs Adrian............if they of course win their first round game next week.

The system rewards the best win rather than punishing a team for the worst loss

[sac]

Hope also had a game scheduled the first weekend where the opponent dropped out, so Hope had to add Purdue North-Central at the last minute.  On top of that they are 1 game short of the 25 limit............no one finds that telling?

Its always a two-way street when it come to scheduling, yet no one seems willing to acknowledge that.

(.......except me and realist )

[realist]

Interesting Adrian is Hope's best win, and Calvin's worst loss.  Isn't Calvin being punished in this scenario?
"Its always a two-way street when it come to scheduling, yet no one seems willing to acknowledge that."
Sac:  I think I addressed that in a post on the last page.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Random Thought/Question:

If the following scenario happens, is my final assumption correct?:

1.  Hope loses tonight at Alma and Saturday at Tri-State

2.  Calvin wins tonight at Albion and Saturday at KZoo.

Calvin hosts the MIAA tourney due to tri-breaker.

1.  Head-to-Head even
2.  Both lost to Tri-State
3.  Calvin lost to Adrian; Hope lost to Alma.

Higher finisher is Adrian vs Alma, Calvin wins tiebreaker??

If that happens (yeah right), I don't think it will matter who hosts - Hope would be done...

and I would be placing large amounts of money on the Cubs winning the world series this year   

[ziggy]

Hope also had a game scheduled the first weekend where the opponent dropped out, so Hope had to add Purdue North-Central at the last minute.  On top of that they are 1 game short of the 25 limit............no one finds that telling?

Its always a two-way street when it come to scheduling, yet no one seems willing to acknowledge that.

It's that stupid Lake's fault.  The darn glacier just dug too deep.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Under that scenario Section7, Hope would host by virtue of beating Adrian twice, Calvin being 1-1 vs Adrian............if they of course win their first round game next week.

The system rewards the best win rather than punishing a team for the worst loss

I think that's a reasonable system for all (other than for someone who would benefit from a different system this year).  

Honest question - does anyone diasgree?  If so, is there a better method?  I know I hated it when we got down to a coin flip a few years back.

[sac]

Hope also had a game scheduled the first weekend where the opponent dropped out, so Hope had to add Purdue North-Central at the last minute.  On top of that they are 1 game short of the 25 limit............no one finds that telling?

Its always a two-way street when it come to scheduling, yet no one seems willing to acknowledge that.

It's that stupid Lake's fault.  The darn glacier just dug too deep.

Haven't you heard?............there's a magic ferry now.




By the way if Alma wins tonight I'm willing to put all the money in my wallet on Isaac Smith's jersey number in roulette up at Soaring Eagle.

[ziggy]

I think top to bottom or bottom to top is fair.  I would think it unusual to have such a disparity between best win and worst loss.  A Hope loss to Alma would be a complete embarassment.  Typically you would probably only be dealing with losses to the third/fourth place teams, not the last place.

[dothedew]

on a sidenote...the Dew got engaged over the weekend in Philadelphia. I had five of my best friends fly in from around the country and I sent my now fiance, Erin around Philly with clues to our favorite places. At each was one of my/our friend and a Rose and the next clue. Last clue was to go to the Philadelphia Eagles stadium...where I was waiting on the field and we walked to midfield  of the empty WINDY stadium and I proposed. She said yes...and we went out and partied all night with our friends. Good times had by all...just thought I'd pass along to Go Hope and other people I know on here. Spring '08 wedding we think. Giddyup and GO HOPE!
My buddy Johnny had the line of the night as he dropped him off at the park with his rose/clue. "I feel like I'm meeting my internet date....I'll be the one in the park with the Red Rose"  

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I think top to bottom or bottom to top is fair.  I would think it unusual to have such a disparity between best win and worst loss.  A Hope loss to Alma would be a complete embarassment.  Typically you would probably only be dealing with losses to the third/fourth place teams, not the last place.

Right - it's rare enough that a top team would loose to last place, but for their to also be a tie at the top the same year would be really rare.