MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

Congrats, she obviously met all of the selection committee's criteria.

Hopefully she doesn't consider you a Pool B bid.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

on a sidenote...the Dew got engaged over the weekend in Philadelphia. I had five of my best friends fly in from around the country and I sent my now fiance, Erin around Philly with clues to our favorite places. At each was one of my/our friend and a Rose and the next clue. Last clue was to go to the Philadelphia Eagles stadium...where I was waiting on the field and we walked to midfield  of the empty WINDY stadium and I proposed. She said yes...and we went out and partied all night with our friends. Good times had by all...just thought I'd pass along to Go Hope and other people I know on here. Spring '08 wedding we think. Giddyup and GO HOPE!
My buddy Johnny had the line of the night as he dropped him off at the park with his rose/clue. "I feel like I'm meeting my internet date....I'll be the one in the park with the Red Rose"  

That a boy Dew!!!  Congrats!!

[goodknight]

I think top to bottom or bottom to top is fair.  I would think it unusual to have such a disparity between best win and worst loss.  A Hope loss to Alma would be a complete embarassment.  Typically you would probably only be dealing with losses to the third/fourth place teams, not the last place.

Right - it's rare enough that a top team would loose to last place, but for their to also be a tie at the top the same year would be really rare. 

You guys really are looser!

[realist]

Looking at the conference results there has been 1 tie at the top each decade in the 80's, 90's, and 00's.  Many ties have occurred at lower levels, and the tie breaker system seems to have worked reasonably well since the MIAA went to the tourney format in the 90's.

[ziggy]

Looking at the conference results there has been 1 tie at the top each decade in the 80's, 90's, and 00's.  Many ties have occurred at lower levels, and the tie breaker system seems to have worked reasonably well since the MIAA went to the tourney format in the 90's.

The best win tie breaker seems like a good idea for low level tie breaker while the worst loss case seems better fitted for the upper tier.  I suppose the tie breaker has to be consistent across the standings so pick your poison.

[Civic Minded]

on a sidenote...the Dew got engaged over the weekend in Philadelphia. I had five of my best friends fly in from around the country and I sent my now fiance, Erin around Philly with clues to our favorite places. At each was one of my/our friend and a Rose and the next clue. Last clue was to go to the Philadelphia Eagles stadium...where I was waiting on the field and we walked to midfield  of the empty WINDY stadium and I proposed. She said yes...and we went out and partied all night with our friends. Good times had by all...just thought I'd pass along to Go Hope and other people I know on here. Spring '08 wedding we think. Giddyup and GO HOPE!
My buddy Johnny had the line of the night as he dropped him off at the park with his rose/clue. "I feel like I'm meeting my internet date....I'll be the one in the park with the Red Rose"  

Well done dew!     Gotta hand it to a man who can pull off a proposal like that one -- wow!  Congratulations to both of you -- tell her from me that she's one lucky gal!   

[ChicagoHopeNut]

After last Wednesday its hard to try and get excited for a matchup at Alma tonight. If it weren't for the potential to claim sole possession of the regular season championship and hosting the MIAA tourney I'd have nothing to look forward.

In other depressing news, Hope would be playing 3State on the road the one weekend all year that I will be Holland:(

[Pat Coleman]

Lake Erie College doesn't have a signature win, the difference is that they just haven't lost.  I feel like weak schedules are generally rewarded in DIII as long as you win.  quantity of wins often trumps quality of wins.

And they sit at "No. 26." Signature wins are key to the Top 25 process while yes, it seems less relevant in the regional rankings.

[ziggy]

Lake Erie College doesn't have a signature win, the difference is that they just haven't lost.  I feel like weak schedules are generally rewarded in DIII as long as you win.  quantity of wins often trumps quality of wins.

And they sit at "No. 26." Signature wins are key to the Top 25 process while yes, it seems less relevant in the regional rankings.

I had regional rankings in mind, as they are the indicator of who could make the tournament and potential seeding.  The top 25 has much more of a buzz influence to it.

[almcguirejr]

It's hard to have a signature win when you dont play any signature teams.....Schools have no control over how good the teams are they are playing, they just have to play the schedule they have......Hope lost to Carthage and Wheaton (both close) early in the year on the road, and to their biggest rival....(would that be a signature loss???) Losses are always telling........why is it that wins are not as telling?  (oops, forgot, you need SIGNATURE wins!!!)!, just beating the H-E-double hockeystick out of the teams you should beat are not as telling?

Hope played a weak non conference schedule this year.  They have control over that.  They should have invited some stronger teams to their Sentinel and DeVette tournaments.  KVS scheduled a very difficult non-conference schedule with a lot less experience coming back than Hope did.  I think GVW should have found 1 or 2 more top 25 caliber DIII teams to play prior to the league season.  I think he would know a lot more about his team than he does right now

This is also why I think Calvin (although I know they wont be) should be considered for Pool C.......Throw out their preseason, look at who they are NOW!

NOW they are a 9-3 team in a weak league.  I think Pool C does throw out their non conference schedule except for the Select Bank loss to Hope.  They are not a Pool C contender because of their losses to Adrian and TSU.  Calvin played themselves into the corner they find themselves in.  They can also play themselves into the NCAA tournament by winning 3 games next week.

I dont get it....we are talking about the viability of teams for the NCAA tourney and you tell me Hope has to schedule better non-conference but in order to count for the tourney you need to schedule in-region games right? I thought the committee only took those into account so playing great teams outside of your region is pointless..both literally and figuratively....(see your comment re Calvin above)....

Your sarcasm is noted about Calvin...I just think they have pretty good talent and are playing very well and together right now.  It would show if they made it into the tournament....

Obviously you know alot more than me and are an expert in this field...I am not at all, just commenting on the validity of having signature wins in a weak league.....(although in any league, wins are harder to come by than in non-league due to familiarity with opponents and motivation)

First of all I was not being sarcastic about Calvin.  You seem to want to throw out what has happened this season and focus on how their playing right NOW (your emphasis). I am a Calvin fan but I am not going to state that they are deserving of consideration of a Pool C bid as you are.  You are focusing on a 10 day stretch where they played better basketball.  If you honestly assess Calvin's year, they weren't very good the first 18 games they played.  The last 4 games have shown consistent effort and better play.

Your comments about signature wins were in response to being ranked and how pollsters viewed certain wins if I have the context of all the posts correct about of this. If Hope had played somebody like Wooster and won they would be helped in the D3hoops poll.  But they lost  to Wheaton and Carthage which are middle of the road teams in their (very strong) conference.  A "signature" win would have helped them in the polls but would not have done anything for them regionally for the NCAA tournament.

I don't know if I know alot more than you.  I don't consider myself an expert.  I happen to have an opinion that is different than yours.  That's what this discussion board is for.

[almcguirejr]

Hope also had a game scheduled the first weekend where the opponent dropped out, so Hope had to add Purdue North-Central at the last minute.  On top of that they are 1 game short of the 25 limit............no one finds that telling?

Its always a two-way street when it come to scheduling, yet no one seems willing to acknowledge that.

(.......except me and realist )

I posted earlier this year that all MIAA teams were playing 1 less game this year. I was told that the first game of MIAA tournament had to be counted against your allotment of 25 games.  Pat Coleman responded back that he knew of no such rule.  But, I have to believe there is some validity to it because no teams in the MIAA are playing a 25 game schedule.  It looks like 6 teams are playing 24 games and 2 teams 23 games.             

Also, on the CCIW board a few weeks ago there was a discussion about having an 8 team league tournament format instead of the current 4 team.  If the CCIW adopted the 8 team proposal they would also go to a 24 game schedule.

[AndersDY]

Interesting Adrian is Hope's best win, and Calvin's worst loss.  Isn't Calvin being punished in this scenario?

I'm assuming you are referring to records other than against each other, since I doubt you would discount winning at Calvin as being a lesser win than beating Adrian. However, Calvin has lost to both Tri-State and Adrian, who presumably will be 3rd and 4th and Hope has at least one win against each of those. In whatever order they finish, Calvin's worst loss will be whoever is in 4th and Hope's best win will be whoever is in 3rd, so the situation won't quite be that dramatic. It would seem odd however that tie-breaking wouldn't even get down to the point of looking at: "wait, you lost to Alma??"

Which reminds us again, all this hypothesizing is first of all dependent on Alma beating Hope.... we'll see you in Holland next week.

[David Collinge]

Hope also had a game scheduled the first weekend where the opponent dropped out, so Hope had to add Purdue North-Central at the last minute.  On top of that they are 1 game short of the 25 limit............no one finds that telling?

Its always a two-way street when it come to scheduling, yet no one seems willing to acknowledge that.

(.......except me and realist )

I posted earlier this year that all MIAA teams were playing 1 less game this year. I was told that the first game of MIAA tournament had to be counted against your allotment of 25 games.  Pat Coleman responded back that he knew of no such rule.  But, I have to believe there is some validity to it because no teams in the MIAA are playing a 25 game schedule.  It looks like 6 teams are playing 24 games and 2 teams 23 games.             

Also, on the CCIW board a few weeks ago there was a discussion about having an 8 team league tournament format instead of the current 4 team.  If the CCIW adopted the 8 team proposal they would also go to a 24 game schedule.

There is no rule mandating that the first round of an 8-team tournament counts against your regular season quota.  As evidence, the NCAC teams all play 25-game schedules, and we have an 8-team tournament.

The CCIW is a special case, as they have opted to maintain a four-team tournament, and append to it a "play-in round."  It sounds like semantics, but the effect is that the "play-in round" does in fact count as one of the maximum 25 games.  Had they chosen instead to call it an 8-team tournament, it would not have counted against the regular season total. 

[almcguirejr]

Hope also had a game scheduled the first weekend where the opponent dropped out, so Hope had to add Purdue North-Central at the last minute.  On top of that they are 1 game short of the 25 limit............no one finds that telling?

Its always a two-way street when it come to scheduling, yet no one seems willing to acknowledge that.

(.......except me and realist )

I posted earlier this year that all MIAA teams were playing 1 less game this year. I was told that the first game of MIAA tournament had to be counted against your allotment of 25 games.  Pat Coleman responded back that he knew of no such rule.  But, I have to believe there is some validity to it because no teams in the MIAA are playing a 25 game schedule.  It looks like 6 teams are playing 24 games and 2 teams 23 games.             

Also, on the CCIW board a few weeks ago there was a discussion about having an 8 team league tournament format instead of the current 4 team.  If the CCIW adopted the 8 team proposal they would also go to a 24 game schedule.

There is no rule mandating that the first round of an 8-team tournament counts against your regular season quota.  As evidence, the NCAC teams all play 25-game schedules, and we have an 8-team tournament.

The CCIW is a special case, as they have opted to maintain a four-team tournament, and append to it a "play-in round."  It sounds like semantics, but the effect is that the "play-in round" does in fact count as one of the maximum 25 games.  Had they chosen instead to call it an 8-team tournament, it would not have counted against the regular season total. 

Does the 8 team NCAC tournament take place at one location or do the top 4 seeds each host 1 round like in the MIAA?

[AndersDY]

Does the 8 team NCAC tournament take place at one location or do the top 4 seeds each host 1 round like in the MIAA?

The first round is hosted by the higher seed in each game. Then they flip a coin with representatives from Wooster and Wittenberg to determine the site of the semi's and finals.