MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[epohog]

Whether it was a rule or a metod it doesn't seem to matter, if they want to change, either  in mid-strem or after the fact, they're gonna change, and it won't stop until grievances and complaints are filed.

[sac]

Almost forgot this..........

2007 MIAA Fan Poll

MIAA MVP----Choose your top 3 choices for MVP

MIAA First and Second teams----Select 8 players for 1st team and 8 players for 2nd team

MIAA Freshman of the year------Select your top 3 MIAA Freshman

MIAA Coach of the year-----Select your coach of the year

MIAA Game of the year-----Your choice for game of the year


Submit your "ballots" to miaafanpoll@aol.com

miaa.org is a great resourse, please only consider conference stats with your selections.

I'll try to have the awards out by Tuesday afternoon, email addresses will be held in the strictest confidence.

Thanks and have fun with it.

[sac]

I found this absolutely hysterical....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqrkSskzQOk&eurl=

caution D1 content 

[MIdoubleA]

I found this absolutely hysterical....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqrkSskzQOk&eurl=

caution D1 content 

There are quite a few of those, and they are all pretty funny! Yours is just the most applicable one

Bobbing for lobsters 

[Pat Coleman]

Absolutely. And it wasn't the rule that changed here, it was the method, and clearly neither team knew that the game was going to count as in-region, largely because it's a stupid application of the new method.

Here's the thing that gets me about this complaint from Hope fans -- were you going to schedule differently, knowing Carthage would be ruled in-region? No, this is a four-year commitment to play these teams. You were going to play the game anyway.

Do you think Hope's players would have played the game differently knowing it was in-region in the first place? I sure as heck hope not.

So what's the difference? Really, you're complaining because it's another loss that counts. But Hope wouldn't have scheduled differently and wouldn't have played differently if it had advance knowledge.

[Dark Knight]

I remember the impression I had when reading through the piece, but I don't have time to go through it and analyze the kinds of reasoning in use in each case (though that might be an interesting exercise). However, I can pull out a few examples:

"I can't take Calvin as the No. 1 team, as they lost to Wheaton and Illinois Wesleyan beat Wheaton"

(Great point considering IWU was a one-loss team -- like Calvin -- and a No. 1 candidate -- like Calvin.)

I don't think it's a good point at all.

IWU has now lost to Wheaton by 11, but that loss occurred later, so we'll ignore it.

IWU and Calvin had other common opponents. Calvin beat Elmhurst by 37, IWU by 25 and 17. Calvin beat Carthage by 22, IWU by 12 and 2. You'd also be able to find longer chains that connect the teams.

That's why I don't like placing so much emphasis on a single game and ignoring others.

[Pat Coleman]

I believe in many cases a win is a win. You just dropped down names of teams that both teams beat every time they played. What is that proving, really?

[Dark Knight]

I believe in many cases a win is a win. You just dropped down names of teams that both teams beat every time they played. What is that proving, really?

You really don't think that a 22 point win or a 2 point win makes a difference? Then why not just tell the pollsters who won each game, and not mention the scores?

But in fact, pollsters do pay attention to the margin of victory. Some will put much less emphasis on a close, away loss to a good team. Rightly so, in my opinion.

[AndersDY]

I found this absolutely hysterical....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqrkSskzQOk&eurl=

caution D1 content 

I heard that the wreckage of the alligator was strewn as much as 82 yards away! 

[AndersDY]

For you Hope and Alma fans, here's some pictures an Alma fan posted on the mlive fourm.  Thought you might like to see them.

http://hoopmatch.com/index.php?cPath=421_422_471

Such pretty, clean bleachers they have up there at Alma...

[formerd3db]

For you Hope and Alma fans, here's some pictures an Alma fan posted on the mlive fourm.  Thought you might like to see them.

http://hoopmatch.com/index.php?cPath=421_422_471

Such pretty, clean bleachers they have up there at Alma...

It's too bad that some of the other MIAA school's students don't support their bb teams like Hope and Calvin.  The officially listed attendance for the Hope @ Alma game was about 312 (as can be seen by the photos and as noted in the posting above regarding the bleachers); and the Hope @ Albion game the other day was about 268.  Perhaps those could have been "way" down if the students were on "Winter Break" like Hope was last week (although admittedly, I have not checked Alma's or Albion's academic year calender about that possibility - probably less likely).  On the other hand, even with Hope's students being on "Winter break", the attendance for the Adrian game was just under 3,000, although certainly Hope's and Calvin's community support and attendance from that is much higher anyway compared to the other schools.  It's too bad, and while they'll never match Hope or Calvin in this category, it would be nice to see higher attendance for the other MIAA schools.

[bulldogalum]

There was good attendance for the Adrian at Hope game, but you're right, formerd3db, that came almost entirely from the community.  There were very few students at the game who were unconnected with the basketball program.

I'm always confused by Adrian's attendance figures, and have often wondered just how accurate they are.  Many times, students go into the game without checking in or showing ID, so I've frequently thought that our attendance figures for basketball games are somewhat higher than the "official" tally suggests.  That being said, there are plenty of games where there aren't as many people there as there should be.  I wish we had the community support that Calvin and Hope enjoy, and I think the school is taking steps to build that support in the years to come.

[HopeConvert]

Absolutely. And it wasn't the rule that changed here, it was the method, and clearly neither team knew that the game was going to count as in-region, largely because it's a stupid application of the new method.

Here's the thing that gets me about this complaint from Hope fans -- were you going to schedule differently, knowing Carthage would be ruled in-region? No, this is a four-year commitment to play these teams. You were going to play the game anyway.

Do you think Hope's players would have played the game differently knowing it was in-region in the first place? I sure as heck hope not.

So what's the difference? Really, you're complaining because it's another loss that counts. But Hope wouldn't have scheduled differently and wouldn't have played differently if it had advance knowledge.

I also would think the players would play no differently. But when the schools scheduled these games, they assumed they were out of region games. You say that Hope wouldn't have scheduled differently, but you also point out it was a four-year commitment, and I think that's the point. They couldn't have scheduled differently once the NCAA changed the criteria. As you say, "[we] were going to play the game anyway," but had the rules changed after the scheduling had been done. So the schools might have scheduled differently prior to the four-year commitment, had they known. That's the difference. That, and the fact that independent of the outcome the NCAA's reasoning is indefensible. The onus is on them to justify the change, and they haven't done that so far as I have seen. It (further) undermines its credibility as a rule-making institution.

[HopeConvert]

Hope wins 78-59. Listened to it on the radio, and it didn't really seem that close. Hope first visiting team to win at 3State this year. All told, a great MIAA season for Hope, and a better one than I would have predicted at the beginning of the year.

[arena]

Veldhouse 0-7 shooting 3's??  what's going on with that?