MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Stinger]

I  decided to cool down a bit last night and save the post until today, especially after reading that KVS quote.  So, the Mrs and I decided to shake up a couple of mojitos, and pop in Little Miss Sunshine (If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it).

I can concur with Calvin fans that the reffing was awful. What I can't figure out: why the hell are you complaining?!!  The fouls were 26-14, and Calvin shot 29 FT's to Kzoo's 14. No, Kalamazoo doesn't employ clutch and grab tactics. They played good physical defense. Oldknight, you kind of sound like Roy Williams whining about the Big Ten's physical style of play.

I can't explain Kalamazoo never even seeing the bonus in the 2nd half, while Calvin had 10+ minutes in the bonus.  Sac, what you heard about Kzoo missing a layup at the end? Well, more like Phil Weaver tried to get the shot up, but was hacked and a no call.   It was extremely frustrating. 

I thought the Hornets played pretty damn good basketball last night. Pat was hitting some crazy shots.  Tyler stepped up and nailed shots at big times. K outrebounded Calvin 45-37.  Kellogg is a presence underneath. I'd have to say he's one of the most improved players in the league this year.  If the Hornets play like this on Wednesday, I like their chances against Tri-State.

Im trying to figure out to what KVS was referring to in his quote.  The only thing I remember is Luke Perry, er, Derek Griffin flopping after hitting a three.   I have to say, Derek,  pretty class move when you taunt the student section after making a shot. 

[oldknight]

I agree with stinger that K played very well. In fact, for the full 40 minutes they played harder and with more passion than did Calvin.

[hope1]

i can not beleive that the seasson is almost done gone way to fast  the last week man

[HopeConvert]

changing what counts for said stupid criteria in mid-stream and using a computer program that kicks out routes no one with half a brain would ever take just makes it more of a circus.  No sports teams from Hope or Carthage will ever make that trip in under 200 miles.

It's a measuring stick -- what are you gonna do? Nobody ever once said you had to travel that route. You have to use SOMETHING as a measuring stick. This is the one.

Well, except Mr. Ypsi.

I guess my gripe is that even by mappoint's software it is not under 200 miles, unless you go straight across the lake in which case the trip takes an extra five hours (if the ferry is running, and if not it ceases to exist as a route). I think the NCAA just didn't put any thought into the decision. I don't have any problem with rules changing, but there has to be some thought put into the application of the rules, and it seems to me that didn't happen in this instance. In other words, I'm not convinced they actually used their own measuring stick. Then again, as someone who studies politics, my default is to assume some incompetence among those in charge.

It's going to be a long week until the tournament starts...

[HopeConvert]

I am pleased to read that the first unit stepped up big yesterday. It sounds as if Hope is getting some of its balance and intensity back. If so, they'll be tough to beat in the tourney, although I think we can assume that if Calvin makes it to the finals they will have little difficulty finding passion and intensity for the game.

[Harrier]

MIAA Men's tournament

WEDNESDAY - quarterfinals
#8 Alma (3-21) at #1 Hope (21-3), 7:30 p.m.
#7 Olivet (5-19) at #2 Calvin (15-9), 7:30 p.m.
#6 Kalamazoo (5-18) at #3 Tri-State (15-9), 7:30 p.m.
#5 Albion (10-14) at #4 Adrian (9-14), 7:30 p.m.

FRIDAY - semi-finals at highest seed
Calvin/Olivet winner vs. Tri-State/Kalamazoo winner, 6 p.m.
Adrian/Albion winner vs. Hope/Alma winner, 8:15 p.m.

SATURDAY - championship at Friday site
Championship game, 7:30 p.m.

winner advances to NCAA Tournament

[David Collinge]

I guess my gripe is that even by mappoint's software it is not under 200 miles, unless you go straight across the lake in which case the trip takes an extra five hours.

But there's no "unless" in this scenario.  Mappoint, using the "shortest distance" option, routes you straight across the lake, period. 

There's a basic misunderstanding of this rule which I think is the source of the frustration.  The rule does not say a game is in-region if you can get from Point A to Point B in 200 miles or less.  The NCAA is not attempting to dictate driving directions; they don't care if Hope gets to Kenosha via the Skyway, the ferry, or the moon.  Instead, the 200-mile rule is an attempt to address the problem that relative neighbors could not play an in-region game against one another if they were in different evaluation regions (like, say Wabash and DePaul, or Carthage and UW-Whitewater, or hundreds of examples in the east.) 

The problem was how to determine when two schools were close enough to each other to warrant calling their game "in-region."  You could take a compass and draw a circle around each school, but that would be labor-intensive.  You could leave it up to the schools to decide, but that would be far from uniform and entirely unenforceable.  You could estimate the travel time between the schools, but that introduces so many variables (speed limits, routing, driving conditions, etc.) as to make the result nearly random.  Instead they settled on a tool that is objective, which is to set a mileage threshold which is approximate but essentially arbitrary, and to use a third-party software program to determine if that threshold is met or not. 

Application of this rule over thousands and thousands of games has resulted in a small number of anomalies cropping up, which is to be expected from this or any method.  We're focusing on one anomaly which seems particularly absurd when looked at as actual driving directions, which they are not and were never intended to be.  If it were actually important that it be possible to get from Holland to Kenosha in under 200 miles, there'd be a real problem with a rule that routes you over a non-existent ferry.  But it isn't.  This is just a way to estimate what extra-regional games are un-burdensome enough to be considered in-region and thus encouraged. 

Looking at it in abstract, isn't it better that an anomaly in the rule makes a game in-region, rather than the opposite?  Isn't that something we've been arguing about for years, that the regional structure discourages games that should "count" (like, especially, Calvin/Wheaton)? 

The only thing about this that bothers me is that the Hope/Carthage game was undoubtedly scheduled before the switch to mappoint was announced, and was non-regional under the old software.  Pat's probably right that it made no practical difference in the scheduling or playing of the game, and I'm not sure how the problem could have been avoided, short of just sticking with the old software that is probably outdated and unavailable to the schools.

[Pat Coleman]

FDF:

Both the rule and the measuring stick have changed. The NCAA championships committee, after complaints by the membership, added the administrative regions this year as a way to declare a game in-region, and also changed the software used, probably for reasons of availability as David Collinge suggested.

Schools should not be surprised that the definition of regional games changed, since changes were requested, and should have known it was possible that their existing and future schedules could be redefined.

[NW Hope Fan]

The onus is on them to justify the change, and they haven't done that so far as I have seen. It (further) undermines its credibility as a rule-making institution.

Well, in all honesty, I'm not entirely sure they are required to justify it to you personally. I'm sure if the institutions inquired they might get a more specific reason than we did. I think the reason we got was more than they are required to give to you guys.

With all honesty Pat, as the A#1 guy on this site, maybe you should try a little harder to be a bit more professional when answering people's questions... I mean come on... A number of times this year I've noticed in questions that were not directly asked of you or directed at you, you respond in a defensive and somewhat jerky sort of way.

I appreciate everything you put into all the DIII sites, and you are way more of an authority than most of the people on here could ever dream of being, but I think that puts you in a very delicate position. You are not a "Joe Blow" poster that can or should go off on people just because they bother you. There is and should be a certain amount of integrity that goes along with running a website, and frankly I've lost a bit of respect for you this basketball season.

Sorry -- just because I run the site doesn't mean I give up my right to be a fan or to post on the boards. I would get a lot less enjoyment out of the site and it just wouldn't be worth my while if I had to conform to your idea of what I should be like.

Because I can come in and post on the boards, it makes the sites enjoyable for me. Since I spend thousands of hours a year on the sites, it needs to be something I enjoy, esp. since it doesn't pay the mortgage and I have a full-time job on top of it.

I know you are not the only person who feels this way, but this is actually the way it has been for a decade and while I've certainly mellowed with age, I'm not going to be able to take a bland, boring tone with every single post.

You are obviously a passionate fan, and that is why this site works, but because of your A#1 status, I believe you are held at a higher standard. No one is asking you to be bland or boring, but after a decade you should realize that getting all caught up personally in something, losing your objectivity and resort to name calling, finger pointing and nanny nanny poo poo, makes you look more like a college age chump, rather than the DIII "guru" you are.

All I'm asking for is passion w/ tact. Let the rest of us "non-professional" DIII junkies act like jack a$$es...

[Pat Coleman]

resort to name calling, finger pointing and nanny nanny poo poo, makes you look more like a college age chump, rather than the DIII "guru" you are.

... if you say so. I'm not even sure that the three "things" you cite are even accurate. Nanny nanny poo poo sounds like you're suggesting I say "I told you so" to posters that make claims their teams later fail to back up.

I specifically and intentionally do not do that. If you see me taunting a poster whose team lived "up" to our not ranking them, call me on it.

Name calling? I suppose that's possible but in the course of 16,000-some posts you could probably find a little of everything.

Not softening my tone in order to keep from insulting people? Guilty.

[realist]

Stinger:  Kalamazoo was very aggressive, and did what they thought they had to do to keep close to Calvin, and have a chance to win.   I (for one) did not intend to imply in any fashion that Kalamazoo was dirty.  It is good coaching when the players can react to game situations, and make it play to their strenght. I think what really got KVS was the early call on Smith when he was the one who had a Kalamazoo player over his back.  As for the call at the end that Kalamazoo didn't get (Passage was quite upset about that) you are probably right.  The refs. missed so many calls (both ways) it wouldn't surprise me.  I heard later with about 3 minutes to go the Calvin radio announcer was convinced Kalamazoo was going to win.
Pat:  FWIW  Don't you realize when you are around sacred cows it isn't cool to order a hamburger?  

[sac]

A couple MIAA records to keep an eye on this week.........

Jesse Reimink's .677 MIAA 3pt percentage would break the old MIAA record of .653 by Hope's Greg Mitchell in 1988.........of course the trouble for Jesse is he could go .500 for the week and his average would drop.  .609 by Marcus VanderHeide last year is 3rd on the list.

Zak Silas' .932 from the FT line gives him a shot at the top 5 all-time in a single season.  #5 on that list is .933. 

Lastly Hope's 9.67 3 pointers per game would finish #2 all-time in MIAA play, they need just 12 more to fit in the top 3 all-time 3's per game.  Tri-State's "system ball" season 2 years ago tops the list at 13.4

To follow up

Jesse Reimink did indeed break the single season 3 point percentage record finishing at 23-34 for .676,  congrats to Jesse.

BEST THREE-POINT SHOOTING PERCENTAGE
.676  Jesse Reimink, Hope, 2006-07 (23-34)
.653    Greg Mitchell, Hope, 1987-88 (17-26)
.615  Jeff Reinoehl, Kalamazoo, 1989-90 (16-26)
.609  Marcus Vanderheide, Hope, 2005-06 (14-23)


Zak Silas missed a FT this week which unfortunatley keeps him out of the top 5 single season FT percentage record book.  His career average is close to being among the best, I'll have to check that one out.

BEST FREE THROW SHOOTING PERCENTAGE
.967    Doug Austin, Alma, 1997-98 (29-30)
.944 Jim Kramer, Alma, 1982-83 (34-36)
.944 Dirk Rhinehart, Kalamazoo, 2000-01 (34-36)
.935 Tom Crawford, Kalamazoo, 1965-66 (43-46)
.933 Mike Winkle, Calvin, 1981-82 (28-30)
.933 Ken Dietz, Olivet, 1984-85 (28-30)





A tough first half shooting 3's at TSU prevented Hope from finishing 2nd all-time for average 3 pointers, but they did slip in at #3 averaging 9.36, in fact just 1 more would have given them the #2 spot

THREE-POINTERS SCORED
13.4 Tri-State, 2004-05 (188 in 14 games)
9.4 Adrian, 2001-02 (113 in 12 games)
9.36 Hope, 2006-07 (131 in 14 games)
9.1    Tri-State, 2005-06 (128 in 14 games)

....sidenote.....despite leading the NCAA D3 in 3pt shooting for most of Jan/Feb, they aren't even close to the MIAA record of .532 in 1988 by Hope.  That team only took 107 shots though,  most MIAA teams today do that by game 5.

[sac]

Out of curiosity were the 3 officials at Kzoo a balding gentleman, a younger guy and a short guy with a mustache............if so, yeah that was the crew at Alma which I'd never seen before.

....and if so, I sympathize........they could use a rule book refresher.

[oldknight]

Out of curiosity were the 3 officials at Kzoo a balding gentleman, a younger guy and a short guy with a mustache............if so, yeah that was the crew at Alma which I'd never seen before.

....and if so, I sympathize........they could use a rule book refresher.

The three officials were Rich Ames, Nuf Perez, and Danny Sapp. Perez I've seen a number of times before although mainly at the high school level. I think he only recently graduated to MIAA games. He was the youngest and shortest of the three but he doesn't have any facial hair. Another official (I think Sapp) is someone who looked only vaguely familiar and the third official is someone I've never seen before.

[goodknight]

I  decided to cool down a bit last night and save the post until today, especially after reading that KVS quote.  So, the Mrs and I decided to shake up a couple of mojitos, and pop in Little Miss Sunshine (If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it).

I can concur with Calvin fans that the reffing was awful. What I can't figure out: why the hell are you complaining?!!  The fouls were 26-14, and Calvin shot 29 FT's to Kzoo's 14. No, Kalamazoo doesn't employ clutch and grab tactics. They played good physical defense. Oldknight, you kind of sound like Roy Williams whining about the Big Ten's physical style of play.

I can't explain Kalamazoo never even seeing the bonus in the 2nd half, while Calvin had 10+ minutes in the bonus.  Sac, what you heard about Kzoo missing a layup at the end? Well, more like Phil Weaver tried to get the shot up, but was hacked and a no call.   It was extremely frustrating. 

I thought the Hornets played pretty damn good basketball last night. Pat was hitting some crazy shots.  Tyler stepped up and nailed shots at big times. K outrebounded Calvin 45-37.  Kellogg is a presence underneath. I'd have to say he's one of the most improved players in the league this year.  If the Hornets play like this on Wednesday, I like their chances against Tri-State.

Im trying to figure out to what KVS was referring to in his quote.  The only thing I remember is Luke Perry, er, Derek Griffin flopping after hitting a three.   I have to say, Derek,  pretty class move when you taunt the student section after making a shot. 

Stinger, I find mojitos far too sweet, but it's wonderful that they mellow you out after contemplating KVS's complaints about the officiating.  

Great call on Little Miss Sunshine, though.   

You note a taunting incident near the student section.

Although I didn't see it, I don't condone players taunting fans.  What's more, K's student section does not deserve to be taunted by anyone.  They are the model of positive sportsmanship not only in the MIAA but in all of D3.