MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[oldknight]

   I have to say, Derek,  pretty class move when you taunt the student section after making a shot. 

I didn't see what happened so I can't offer offer any sort of defense or plea in mitigation on Griffin's behalf. However, I did hear the K section repeatedly taunt Meckes when shooting free throws by chiming "baldy, baldy." I never saw him respond in any way. You might want to give him credit for ignoring the fans. Good thing for the K students that Josh isn't an Old Testament prophet lest he sic a couple of she-bears on the offending students (see II Kings 2:23-24). Don't dis' Elisha if he comes to the Rolla Dome guys!

[Erm Schmigget]

I can concur with Calvin fans that the reffing was awful. What I can't figure out: why the hell are you complaining?!!  The fouls were 26-14, and Calvin shot 29 FT's to Kzoo's 14.

I think people were mad about the fifteen or so fouls that weren't called on Kazoo.  Who cares how many were called ..... it matters how many were committed.

Bilk-  I couldn't agree with you more on that point.  It irks me when I hear people yell to the refs how many fouls each team has.  Are they asking the refs to even up that stat, regardless of how the players are playing the game?  The refs are there (in part) to make sure the game is played fairly and within the rules.  Not to keep the foul totals even.

I will say this, though.  When I see refs call fouls on one team, and let the other team get away with the same action and not call them on it...      "Call it both ways!!!"

Having not seen the game, I couldn't tell you which is the case in this instance.  I HOPE Stinger's comment regarding the foul tally wasn't a case of looking only at the game stats, and not viewing the game as it was played.  He's a pretty reasonable poster, so I'll defer judgement to those who were there and know. 

[Erm Schmigget]

So...  I just re-read my post and thought "hmmm...  Maybe I shouldn't have used the word 'judgement' on this board."  And the I thought  "no problem, I'll just edit it before it's out there long enough for others to jump on that word."  Then I thought "how does one edit his post anyway?"  I haven't figured that one out.  Could someone please help me out with that?

[oldknight]

I can concur with Calvin fans that the reffing was awful. What I can't figure out: why the hell are you complaining?!!  The fouls were 26-14, and Calvin shot 29 FT's to Kzoo's 14.

I think people were mad about the fifteen or so fouls that weren't called on Kazoo.  Who cares how many were called ..... it matters how many were committed.

Bilk-  I couldn't agree with you more on that point.  It irks me when I hear people yell to the refs how many fouls each team has.  Are they asking the refs to even up that stat, regardless of how the players are playing the game?  The refs are there (in part) to make sure the game is played fairly and within the rules.  Not to keep the foul totals even.

I will say this, though.  When I see refs call fouls on one team, and let the other team get away with the same action and not call them on it...      "Call it both ways!!!"

Having not seen the game, I couldn't tell you which is the case in this instance.  I HOPE Stinger's comment regarding the foul tally wasn't a case of looking only at the game stats, and not viewing the game as it was played.  He's a pretty reasonable poster, so I'll defer judgement to those who were there and know. 

Stinger was at the game and I agree he is a reasonable poster; it's just that even though we were at the same venue at the same time we saw two different games--or at least two differently officiated games. Not that we would ever let our biases factor into our evaluations.

By the way Erm, you can always make a change in your own post by clicking the "modify" box in the upper right corner of your post (between "quote" and "delete"). If you want to make a change in your post I think it's best to do so right away so that posters don't rely on your original post and quote directly from an outdated one.

[Erm Schmigget]

Stinger was at the game and I agree he is a reasonable poster; it's just that even though we were at the same venue at the same time we saw two different games--or at least two differently officiated games. Not that we would ever let our biases factor into our evaluations.

By the way Erm, you can always make a change in your own post by clicking the "modify" box in the upper right corner of your post (between "quote" and "delete"). If you want to make a change in your post I think it's best to do so right away so that posters don't rely on your original post and quote directly from an outdated one.

Thanks OK.  I looked for the Modify button as you suggested, but it's not there.  I wonder if that's a privelege one gets at 200 posts, like applauding and smiting.  I'll just choose my words more carefully.

Thanks again!

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Stinger was at the game and I agree he is a reasonable poster; it's just that even though we were at the same venue at the same time we saw two different games--or at least two differently officiated games. Not that we would ever let our biases factor into our evaluations.

By the way Erm, you can always make a change in your own post by clicking the "modify" box in the upper right corner of your post (between "quote" and "delete"). If you want to make a change in your post I think it's best to do so right away so that posters don't rely on your original post and quote directly from an outdated one.

Thanks OK.  I looked for the Modify button as you suggested, but it's not there.  I wonder if that's a privelege one gets at 200 posts, like applauding and smiting.  I'll just choose my words more carefully.

Thanks again!

I'm pretty sure that the ability to modify and the ability to award or take away karma all come when you reach the 200 post milestone

[Pat Coleman]

Modify/delete actually comes sooner, in the 50 range -- when you get off the JV and onto the second string.

[Erm Schmigget]

Thanks Pat.

FDF-
Lots of basketball this week in Holland.  Looks like the orange shorts could be pulling some extra shifts.     Will you and CM be able to make all of the games?

[veragrace]

Hope fans who are season tix holders...I just picked up my tix for Wed night and my seats had been taken .  First come first serve I guess.  So if you want your actual seats, I wouldn't wait too long to call the office or hustle on over to the Fieldhouse and pick them up.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Thanks Pat.

FDF-
Lots of basketball this week in Holland.  Looks like the orange shorts could be pulling some extra shifts.     Will you and CM be able to make all of the games?

Already got our tickets for Tuesday and Wednesday, although the shorts are reserved for the guys games.  I wore them once to a girls game and they shot poorly - I think because my muscular calfs were... 

OK, I couldn't even get that one all the way out before I started to gross myself out   

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Hope fans who are season tix holders...I just picked up my tix for Wed night and my seats had been taken .  First come first serve I guess.  So if you want your actual seats, I wouldn't wait too long to call the office or hustle on over to the Fieldhouse and pick them up.

Yeah, we're sitting in different seats as well.  I think Hope has to provide a certain percentage of the ticketss to Alma (although I suspect almost all of them will be coming back to Hope), so folks can't necessairly get their own seats.  It will be even more "fun" if we win on Wednesday as 25% of the tickets are given to each school for Friday (at least I think that's how it works).

[ChicagoHopeNut]

So my question is, did they actually change the rule to start using ferry's, or are they now considering the backroads & city streets through Chicago?  IF it's the latter, then why was this not in region last year - it's not like those streets just popped up in the last 12 months. 

Neither; they changed the program used to determine distance.  This year it's mappoint; last year IIRC it was Streets & Trips.

While continuing to beat this long dead horse... Mappoint (www.mappoint.msn.com) is the Microsoft live maps I referred to in my other post. Which, as I pointed out, uses the same software (from the Microsoft site) that Streets and Trips uses.

So using this free software and manipulating it to not allow a ferry trip ("shortest drive" from Hope to Carthage takes you on the ferry). I went from Hope College (a legal search term) to Lakeview, MI (500) yards off the freeway, and then on to Carthage College. I did this all using the "shortest distance" (which indeed does take you all through Robin Hood's barn in Chicago), coming up with 203.6 miles.

Still wondering how the NCAA travel office does it... 

I'm hoping to find out, as I have a request in to the "travel office" to get some turn by turn directions from Hope to Carthage... That should be enlightening! 

Since I have been out of town I have not had the chance to comment on this ongoing discussion. I agree with the general consensus that the NCAA system is "lacking" to say the least. Granted if it was up to me I'd blow up the whole NCAA system because I think the folks in Indy running it are the most hypocritcal group of individuals the country has seen outside of Ted Haggard and DC politicians.

That said my biggest complaint is that the new system has a much bigger effect on teams around Lake Michigan and Lake Huron/Erie than anyone else in the country. For good or bad teams near the lakes in Michigan, Eastern Wisconsin or Northern Ohio will always be more affected by this rule than any other teams in the country (for good or bad depending on the team and the year). No one else has a large lake that cannot be realistically ferried so the actual road route will always be very close 200 miles if the "as the bird flies" is 200 miles. While Hope to Carthage by car is significantly more than 200 miles. Ok, that should be it for now.

I apologize if someone mentioned this point earlier as I did not read all 20 pages I missed in the last week.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

And now for a comment related to MIAA officiating.

Admittedly, I have only seen a few games in the last 2 years in person or on tv so I am not as up to date on the regular officials as I was 2 years ago. With that disclaimer out of the way I would say I was regularly shocked, appalled, and bitter with the officials. Its one thing to be bad its much worse to be inconsistent and call the game differently for both teams.

I have no idea how MIAA officials are picked, trained or tested for competency. Or if the coaches are able to submit reviews after each game (if they cannot, they should be allowed to). All said I think the MIAA head of officials does a poor job overall when compared to the games I have seen officiated in the CCIW and CAC. Its unfortunate that such a good league is regularly brought down by bad officiating. I know it happens everywhere but it seems to be worse in the MIAA. And when both teams fans agree that the officiating is bad you know you have a problem (not the case with K and Calvin but that has been the case earlier in the season).

[diehardfan]

Thanks Pat.

FDF-
Lots of basketball this week in Holland.  Looks like the orange shorts could be pulling some extra shifts.     Will you and CM be able to make all of the games?

Already got our tickets for Tuesday and Wednesday, although the shorts are reserved for the guys games.  I wore them once to a girls game and they shot poorly - I think because my muscular calfs were... 

OK, I couldn't even get that one all the way out before I started to gross myself out   

Erm, as an aside, until you reach 50, you can always ask a site administrator (or one of us lowly HOFers) to edit your post for you if you feel it's important.

[Civic Minded]

Thanks Pat.

FDF-
Lots of basketball this week in Holland.  Looks like the orange shorts could be pulling some extra shifts.     Will you and CM be able to make all of the games?

Erm, 
The good news is that the shorts can now be washed, thanks to the loss to Calvin.  Before then, they were way off limits for any soap and water!  LOL!