MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[NW Hope Fan]

For the 2005-06 year, the NCAA used Microsoft Streets and
Trips.  However, for 2006-07, we changed to an online program, Microsoft
MapPoint, that all institutions can access. 

Why wouldn't the NCAA just use mapquest.com? I imagine it is the most commonly used mapping software in use by individuals throughout the country and it is free online!!!

Mappoint is free and accessible (mappoint.com brings you to Microsoft's Live Maps). It also uses the SAME software that Streets and Trips uses... This is what confuses me the most, how are there inconsistencies between two programs using the same mapping software???

[David Collinge]

The Division III Championships committee decided that if the different
systems yielded different results, the NCAA staff liaisons would look at
the situation and determine how the game would be classified.  I sent
your e-mail to our staff liaison yesterday afternoon, and they have
determined that the game would be considered in-region, based on it
having been in-region in previous years, using Microsoft Streets and
Trips.

WHAT ?   Hope v Carthage has never been in-region and if it was it shouldn't have been.

The results from last year on this site have Hope/Carthage as in-region...

http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Hope&team=mens&year=2006

In that case, I think the NCAA's response to this is exactly correct.  Bravo to them for doing the right thing.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

For the 2005-06 year, the NCAA used Microsoft Streets and
Trips.  However, for 2006-07, we changed to an online program, Microsoft
MapPoint, that all institutions can access. 

Why wouldn't the NCAA just use mapquest.com? I imagine it is the most commonly used mapping software in use by individuals throughout the country and it is free online!!!

Mappoint is free and accessible (mappoint.com brings you to Microsoft's Live Maps). It also uses the SAME software that Streets and Trips uses... This is what confuses me the most, how are there inconsistencies between two programs using the same mapping software???

Because it's software, which is a living breathing, ever changing, unpredictable, buggy thing (can you tell I work for a company that produces software).  That's why I don't think it's the right answer.  There is such a simple answer to this, it's ridiculous.  COUNT EVERY GAME AGAINST A DIII OPPONENT.

[wiz]

I have a very credible source that says the Calvin mascot has always been in the master plan.  Calvin also has the world's best dunk in the master plan and it is coming soon to a site nearby!

[almcguirejr]

 COUNT EVERY GAME AGAINST A DIII OPPONENT.

I'll drink to that.

[almcguirejr]

Calvin also has the world's best dunk in the master plan and it is coming soon to a site nearby!

Would that be Sac in the Sem pond? 

[epohog]

I have a very credible source that says the Calvin mascot has always been in the master plan.  Calvin also has the world's best dunk in the master plan and it is coming soon to a site nearby!

Could it be in the DeVoss site? Real soon like?!?!?

[NW Hope Fan]

The Division III Championships committee decided that if the different
systems yielded different results, the NCAA staff liaisons would look at
the situation and determine how the game would be classified.  I sent
your e-mail to our staff liaison yesterday afternoon, and they have
determined that the game would be considered in-region, based on it
having been in-region in previous years, using Microsoft Streets and
Trips.

WHAT ?   Hope v Carthage has never been in-region and if it was it shouldn't have been.

The results from last year on this site have Hope/Carthage as in-region...

http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Hope&team=mens&year=2006

In that case, I think the NCAA's response to this is exactly correct.  Bravo to them for doing the right thing.

But it was not the year before!!! Why is that OK???

I agree that all games we can slip in as "in-region" is better in the long run, but the fact still remains, the spirit of the rule has long been broken by Streets and Trips/Mappoint by possibly using a much longer drive time to accomplish the under 200 miles... even if it
can be done.

[flash96]

As we know the universe is expanding and bodies are moving away from one another.  Does this mean that next year Carthage will be not be considered in reagion.  

The NCAA is an asinine institution who's soul purpose is alter the rules every couple years to justify their existence.  As a high school coach I can see plenty of similarities between the MHSAA and the NCAA.  Idiots on parade!

NCAA  Not a College Advanced Association.  Haven't come up with an acronym for MHSAA yet, at least one that is acceptable on this site.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Of course every D3 game should count!!! The fact they don't will never make any sense and there is no justification for the "regional" breakdown.
The only way to deal with all this is to go enjoy a large variety of micro brews from around the country at one of DC's finest dining locations.

[ziggy]

The fact that they use any software to judge this is in some ways ridiculous.  Software is an ever changing entity, with new versions, bug fixes, service packs, and database updates, all possibly changing the final results. 

I think the NCAA has proven that they are just fine with letting computers determine championship matchups.

[epohog]

As we know the universe is expanding and bodies are moving away from one another.  Does this mean that next year Carthage will be not be considered in reagion.  

The NCAA is an asinine institution who's soul purpose is alter the rules every couple years to justify their existence.  As a high school coach I can see plenty of similarities between the MHSAA and the NCAA.  Idiots on parade!

NCAA  Not a College Advanced Association.  Haven't come up with an acronym for MHSAA yet, at least one that is acceptable on this site.

From the experiences I've also had with the MHSAA how does this grab you? Majestic Headcoach Silencers All knowing Assoc.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

In the spirit of NCAA bashing, the NCAA just forced University of Illinois to dump its "mascot" (many in Illinois would furiously debate that Chief Illiniwek was ever a mascot like the Stanford tree, MSU Spartan, etc.) because it was "hostile and abusive." I have decided to investigate the future of MIAA mascots.

Category 1: Ethnic Related Mascots, Easily Classified as Offensive

Hope Flying Dutchman: Some people believe the Flying Dutchman was a slave ship (there are many competing stories behind the name). Result: Offensive.

Albion Brits: The Brits taxed my ancestors without representation and if you ever watched Braveheart you know they are not particularly nice people. Result: Offensive to America and Scotland at least!

Alma Scots: Hmm, first, the MIAA is a very balkanized group of ethnicities. Second, someone must not like the Scots, say the Irish, Welsh, and those same Brits who were pissed off in Braveheart. Result: Offensive!

Note the exclusion of all these names as well. No one feels welcomed at these schools

Category 2: Wheaton College "What's our name this year?" Category

Calvin Knights: Knights led the Crusades throughout the Middle Ages and we all know how the Wheaton Crusaders ended up! Result: Offensive

Category 3: Animal Names (Admittedly it is getting hard to classify these as offensive but still lets try in 15 seconds per school)

Adrian Bulldogs: Oh my, Bulldogs were bred to attack Bulls! (hence the name) They are cruel little dogs that could attack and kill young children. Result: Offensive
Disclaimer* I love bulldogs, I am getting a little bulldog puppy in just 18 days and could not be more excited.

Kalamazoo Hornets: Many children are allergic to bee and hornet stings, so much so that being stung by one could result in death. I know if I had a child with this allergy I would be offended by a bunch of students cheering on the little buzzzing "death machines." Result: Offensive

Category 4: Inanimate Objects (Might actually be allowed!)

Olivet Comets: Seems one cannot be offended by a Comet but if a comet did wipe out the dinosaurs and could superheat the oceans and kill all of us too. Not sure I want to celebrate that sort of death. Result: Probably gets a pass but may be offensive.

Tri-State Thunder: Wheaton College seems to believe this is acceptable and well Wheaton is a fine institution of higher learning and Billy Graham went there and my dad used to work just down the street. Still many young children are terrified of Thunder Storms!!! Thunder often accompanies hurricanes and tornadoes as well. Hmm, tough. Result: I will say its ok based on Wheaton College's due diligence on the issue. Granted if this was a real legal issue I would check it out myself.

Category 5: Partial MIAA members

Wisconsin Lutheran Warriors: Warriors, please! They kill everything, war, violence, Amnesty Intl would have a field day. Result: Offensive

Saint Mary's Belles: (I know this is not the women's board but I feel inclusion is always best ) Belles, not entirely sure what they mean so I think its ok. However, it does sound rather gender specific based on what I think they mean and well that just isn't right! Sure, its an all girls school but really should be segregating like this? I am sure someone, somewhere has strong feelings against gender segregation and based on that alone St Mary's as a whole may be offensive! Result: Alright, but probably gender specific and we know that is not acceptable post Title 9 at any other school.


Ok, I hope you read this all because just writing it made me laugh

[David Collinge]

The Division III Championships committee decided that if the different
systems yielded different results, the NCAA staff liaisons would look at
the situation and determine how the game would be classified.  I sent
your e-mail to our staff liaison yesterday afternoon, and they have
determined that the game would be considered in-region, based on it
having been in-region in previous years, using Microsoft Streets and
Trips.

WHAT ?   Hope v Carthage has never been in-region and if it was it shouldn't have been.

The results from last year on this site have Hope/Carthage as in-region...

http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Hope&team=mens&year=2006

In that case, I think the NCAA's response to this is exactly correct.  Bravo to them for doing the right thing.

But it was not the year before!!! Why is that OK???

If the NCAA was presented with a ridiculous result (the Ferry Fiasco), they were right to not accept it blindly but instead consider it in light of other relevant factors.  As far as I am concerned, the most important factor is what the schools thought when they scheduled and played the game.  Since the game was in-region last year (rightly or wrongly), the schools probably assumed it would still be in-region this year, so the NCAA's decision is the right one in my book.

[Ralph Turner]

The travel department doesn't really make the determination of what is
considered in or out of region.  We merely determine the mileage program
that we use.  For the 2005-06 year, the NCAA used Microsoft Streets and
Trips.  However, for 2006-07, we changed to an online program, Microsoft
MapPoint, that all institutions can access.  During this transition it
was discovered that not all mileage calculations were the same between
the two programs and that this could potentially affect the in-region
determination.  

The Division III Championships committee decided that if the different
systems yielded different results, the NCAA staff liaisons would look at
the situation and determine how the game would be classified.  I sent
your e-mail to our staff liaison yesterday afternoon, and they have
determined that the game would be considered in-region, based on it
having been in-region in previous years, using Microsoft Streets and
Trips.
...

This memorandum was circulated last fall to answer the question raised by coaches and AD's.  Certain opponents had been contracted based on the Streets and Trips in-region definition prior to the change, and so the adminsitrative ruling was given to permit in-reigon games under the accepted definition when the contract was made to remain such.