MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Oh my, first of all I think Calvin ended up with a better first round opponent. Aurora seems like less of a battle tested team than Chicago. So despite the fact that Hope had better numbers in all the categories being measured I believe that Hope has the tougher first round match up. I guess Aurora had better numbers than Chicago then but I doubt many of us believe that head to head Aurora would beat Chicago more often than not.

As far as a Hope-Calvin V I just can't take it. Sorry, I think I may actually consider rooting against Calvin in the first round (I honestly would normally root for them in the tourney if they weren't playing Hope) but this year I just can't take a fifth match up. Its too much.

Hope and Chicago shared one common opponent this year. Chicago beat Wheaton 81-77 in a home game early in the year. As we all know Hope lost to Wheaton at Carthage by 5ish points. I would say it should be a very very even match up and a tight game. I expect both teams should draw good fan support in Aurora.

[keith45]

Calvin and Aurora shared common opponents in Concordia (WI) and Benedictine.  Calvin played those two during the Calvin tip off tourney while Aurora met those two as part of their conference season.  I don't think Aurora is a battle tested team.  They lost to Wisconsin Lutheran earlier this year, and remember what Hope did to WLC in last year's tournament.

WLC played their best game of the year, and AU was flat...AU is a tough match up, they have 5 players that shoot over 40% from 3, and 2 of them shoot over 45% from 3 land. They have 2 of the best players in the region, in PG D. Leonard and F Larry Welton. Both are hard match ups, imo. Their weakness is downlow, as they are not a big, physical team. However, teams with big strong post players have problems running with AU, and guarding Welton on the perimeter (North Park, Edgewood, etc).
Leonard is a big pg, 6-1 or 6-2, and physical. Avg around 16, 6 and 6. Should be a good game

[oldknight]

Yikes, just like last year with a potential 2nd round Calvin-Hope match-up.  Only this time it could be the fifth time in the season, and 9th time in 2 seasons.  Don't know why the tourney committee does this but oh well.  I guess if you're a Hope fan that wants a chance at revenge, then you got your wish.

Anybody know anything about Aurora and/or Chicago?  Like I said last yesturday.  I remember Aurora from 2 years ago being a very athletic team that had a good freshmen who would now be a junior.

Also, Aurora gym size is pretty average for a d3 gym if anyone cared.  Smaller than Hope and Calvins', though.

A quick look at their stats shows 6 guys averaging 9.6 pts or better.
Those six play the bulk of the minutes.  3 guys average 30 + minutes

Larry Welton is their stud.

No seniors on the roster

No Centers on the roster

From what I remember about Aurora from two years ago is they were very athletic, a bit undisciplined, and they didn't shy away from physical contact at all. Calvin's team of two years ago was well suited to play and beat them because that team knew how to play against Aurora's style. In the end Calvin pulled away because they frustrated the daylights out of Aurora with patient offensive sets and solid defensive play and Aurora's shooters wound up taking numerous bad shots down the stretch when the game was still close. I also remember half of Calvin's team was sick that night and one player (I think Trewhella) even left the floor for a time to go to the locker room and throw up. This year's version of Knights' basketball makes me think they may be less suited to playing a style that will give Aurora fits. I do remember Welton and I think he was guarded by Meckes in a matchup that was a real treat to watch. They are both big men with good footspeed and hops. If I remember correctly Welton made a steal near mid-court when he tried to go in for what he thought was going to be an uncontested thunder dunk only to be run down from behind by Meckes who made an unbelievable (and clean) block from behind. The play left Calvin fans roaring and Aurora fans agape in wonder. It really had an impact on the game--positively for Calvin and negatively for Aurora. I honestly don't think I've ever seen a better block in a D3 game in my life. Fact of the matter is it should have been on YouTube.

[HopeConvert]

So KVS is a genious again I see.......

Takes a real great coach to have Derek Griffen take and hit a bomb from 28 feet. 

Sorry but I don't see a great coaching effort from KVS this year, Calvin should have been right in the MIAA race and they played themselves out of it and were completely uncompetitive against good teams like Carthage, Wheaton, Lax, Wooster and once vs Hope.  Despite the great win last night, thats still mostly a 1 on 1 team, without Derek Griffen's fortunate transfer to Calvin the Knights have a miserable season by Calvin standards.


That is just how I see it.

Sac, once again your frustration seems to turn into sarcasm and putting words into other people's mouths.   

CCMom - truer words were never spoken.

I would suggest that before you accuse sac of those things, you look at the post he was responding to:

Maybe we can soon end the talk about how many miles separates the Illinois and the Michigan teams.  A good coach knows the sure way to get in is by being prepared for the automatic bid from a conference tournament championship.  That's the way KVS played it and now, of course, we all know it worked.  He had a young team that needed to be patiently guided to learn the system and be ready to play good ball in February.  Last night it was clear that one team improved greatly as the season went on and one not so much.  KVS proved once again he is MIAA coach of the year.  After the game, a Holland local was asking me some things about Calvin College and then he mentioned "that's a well coached outfit".  I couldn't agree more.

wizardry seems to be saying that KVS had it planned all along that his team would just win the conference tournament and his entire coaching strategy for the year was focused on that.  Yeah right - he's telling them to not worry about losing games to Adrian, Tri-State, and Albion, it's all part of the strategy.  And it was all strategy when KVS spent entire timeouts getting after his team to just put forth the effort (I'm paraphrasing a post from a Calvin supporter mid-season) and him questioning his own coaching abillity on the radio.

sac is absolutely right - and I'll bet the house KVS would agree, that this has not been one of his better years and that this years team (while they may have improved immensly) took most of the year to get to the level of play that was expected out of the gate.

Except that Sac did not quote anyone when he made his comments.  The comment you mention was made several posts earlier.  So it's not always clear, as I think Sac will admit, who or what he is responding to.  Regarding your own comments about KVS not having one of his better years, etc. that is pretty much what I said in my earlier post.

It seems we are all saying something pretty similar here. Perhaps we can eliminate part of the difficulty by suggesting that KVS's team, rather than KVS himself, didn't have one of its best years. I doubt he is much different as a coach than he has been before. Might I suggest that the main difference is that this Calvin team is simply young and inexperienced? Dealing with college students on a daily basis I can assure you the difference between freshmen and sophomores on the one hand and juniors and seniors on the other is enormous. The latter bring a level of judgment, flexibility, receptivity, experience, maturity, commitment and desire that the former developmentally typically don't yet possess. Veldhouse is still only a sophomore and is in part of victim of his own enormous success as a freshman. I'd be hesitant to criticize KVS too much now, or give him too much credit two years from now when this team is playing in the final four (or so I predict). It seemed to me that KVS's frustration was not that he wasn't coaching well, but that he had a hard time motivating his team to play hard all the time. I also find it difficult to motivate freshmen and sophomores, but typically have little challenge with juniors and seniors. Different venues, but same principle.

[HopeConvert]

Calvin and Aurora shared common opponents in Concordia (WI) and Benedictine.  Calvin played those two during the Calvin tip off tourney while Aurora met those two as part of their conference season.  I don't think Aurora is a battle tested team.  They lost to Wisconsin Lutheran earlier this year, and remember what Hope did to WLC in last year's tournament.

WLC played their best game of the year, and AU was flat...AU is a tough match up, they have 5 players that shoot over 40% from 3, and 2 of them shoot over 45% from 3 land. They have 2 of the best players in the region, in PG D. Leonard and F Larry Welton. Both are hard match ups, imo. Their weakness is downlow, as they are not a big, physical team. However, teams with big strong post players have problems running with AU, and guarding Welton on the perimeter (North Park, Edgewood, etc).
Leonard is a big pg, 6-1 or 6-2, and physical. Avg around 16, 6 and 6. Should be a good game

They sound a little like Hope, then, and we know what Calvin has done recently against them.

[almcguirejr]

Aurora's spring break begins this weekend. 

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Aurora's spring break begins this weekend. 

Good news for those wanting tickets.

I just realized I will be on a plane to Germany during the first round games:( and so I won't even know a Hope-Calvin V occurred until the game is already over! Although I will miss the weekend I think this is the best thing for my psyche that and visiting the Hofbrauhaus.

Smite me if you must for this comment: I just saw the Hope women have been sent to DePauw, which is really unfortunate based on the stories I heard about DePauw's fan behavior from last year. I hope the ladies can run them out of they gym again.

[almcguirejr]

I'm hoping they empty the gym between games.  I estimate the place holds 2000 people.  In 05 Calvin had probably 1500 people there.  I'm sure Hope could bring that many as well.  There is a large contingent of alumni in the western suburbs.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

I just checked the Chicago statistics and they have 11 players that average 10+ minutes, however, one of those players only played 8 games and averaged 23 minutes. I am thinking he was hurt and has not played since because I think they'd have too many minutes overall otherwise. 3 double digit scorers on the team but it seems like a well balanced team just like Hope. We'll see lots of bench play and probably won't see one player carry either team. I know Cramer can and did on Saturday but he really doesn't do that real often as the pts/gm average for Hope show.

[kcrest]

So KVS is a genious again I see.......

Takes a real great coach to have Derek Griffen take and hit a bomb from 28 feet. 

Sorry but I don't see a great coaching effort from KVS this year, Calvin should have been right in the MIAA race and they played themselves out of it and were completely uncompetitive against good teams like Carthage, Wheaton, Lax, Wooster and once vs Hope.  Despite the great win last night, thats still mostly a 1 on 1 team, without Derek Griffen's fortunate transfer to Calvin the Knights have a miserable season by Calvin standards.


That is just how I see it.

Sac, once again your frustration seems to turn into sarcasm and putting words into other people's mouths.   

CCMom - truer words were never spoken.

I would suggest that before you accuse sac of those things, you look at the post he was responding to:

Maybe we can soon end the talk about how many miles separates the Illinois and the Michigan teams.  A good coach knows the sure way to get in is by being prepared for the automatic bid from a conference tournament championship.  That's the way KVS played it and now, of course, we all know it worked.  He had a young team that needed to be patiently guided to learn the system and be ready to play good ball in February.  Last night it was clear that one team improved greatly as the season went on and one not so much.  KVS proved once again he is MIAA coach of the year.  After the game, a Holland local was asking me some things about Calvin College and then he mentioned "that's a well coached outfit".  I couldn't agree more.

wizardry seems to be saying that KVS had it planned all along that his team would just win the conference tournament and his entire coaching strategy for the year was focused on that.  Yeah right - he's telling them to not worry about losing games to Adrian, Tri-State, and Albion, it's all part of the strategy.  And it was all strategy when KVS spent entire timeouts getting after his team to just put forth the effort (I'm paraphrasing a post from a Calvin supporter mid-season) and him questioning his own coaching abillity on the radio.

sac is absolutely right - and I'll bet the house KVS would agree, that this has not been one of his better years and that this years team (while they may have improved immensly) took most of the year to get to the level of play that was expected out of the gate.

I think they're both good coaches.  Did Calvin struggle at times this season?  Yep.  Some new faces, some adjustments in various areas.  I felt all along Calvin would be a far better team in February than they were in November and I think they are.  And I credit KVS *and* the players for that.  I think Hope's potential gap between November and February was a lot smaller, so the improvement Calvin has made should not have been expected on Hope's part.  Hope was pretty darn good in November and Hope in February is still a terffic team, despite Saturday's loss.  For me the evidence of that is how little I would want to play them on Saturday, were Calvin fortunate enough to get by Aurora.  :-)    I think SAC's post was probably a good reminder to all of us D3 fans to not get too down on our coaches or deify them too much either.

[realist]

Not overly surprised by the pairings.  I sort of suspected Calvin would go west/midwest, and sending Hope there also makes as much sense as the rest of the brackets.  

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Some comparitive team stats for Hope & Chicago

Offense	% 2pt	% 3pt	% FT
Hope	48.3	42.6	73.9
Chicago	46.7	39.8	74.3
Defense	% 2pt	% 3pt
Hope	39.9	30.9
Chicago	46.7	34.6
Rebounds	Team	Opp	Margin
Hope	37.2	33.0	4.2
Chicago	31.8	30.9	0.9

[realist]

CCM:  Glad to see you still posting.  One can neither assume that everyone reads all the previous posts or that they are understood the way the writer intends.   At this point all Calvin has to do is come out an play the way they did last Sat.  Good intensity, and focus.  No shame if you get beat by a better team once the dancing starts.

[ladyknight]

Not to prolong the discussion about coaching longer, but I must say that I think KVS and his staff consistently have Calvin playing their best basketball in February and (if they can make it) March.  This, and KVS's coaching at the end of close games are two things that almost always impress me.  I echo that KVS may not have had his best coaching year thus far, but the season isn't over yet, and the best may be yet to come!

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I just checked the Chicago statistics and they have 11 players that average 10+ minutes, however, one of those players only played 8 games and averaged 23 minutes.

I noted that as well, although if you look at their close games, they are only playing 8 or 9 guys.  Tim Reynolds (23.9 minutes in 8 games which he started) hasn't played since their 8th game - must be out with an injury.

Chicago starters

Nate Hainje - 6'5" f - 13.6 ppg - 6.1 rpg - 29.9 min
Jason Vismantas - 6"4" f/c - 6.6 ppg - 5.1 rpg - 21.6 min
Jesse Meyer - 6'3" g - 12.2 ppg - 3.3 rpg - 28.1 minutes (shoots 42% from 3)
Brandon Woodhead - 6'2" g - 15.8 ppg - 3.2 rpg - 29.7 min
Drew Adams - 5'10' g - 7.9 ppg - 1.5 rpg- 23.0 min

Off the bench (bench averaging 25.2 points per game (not including Reynolds)  - Hope's bench averages 34.8)

Jake Pancratz - 6'1" g - 6.0 ppg - 1.4 rpg - 17.8 min in 25 games
Derek Brannon - 6'2" g - 3.3 ppg - 1.0 rpg - 10.9 min in 24 games
Tom Watson - 6'8" c - 2.3 ppg - 2.6 rpg - 15.2 min in 19 games
Adam Machones 6'5" f - 3.2 ppg - 1.8 rpg - 13.2 min in 18 games
Matt Corning - 6'4" g - 5.1 ppg - 2.1 rpg - 10.9 min in 15 games

I like our match-ups with this team, as well as our depth (10 guys averaging over 13 minutes a game in all 27 games - minus the two games Partridge was hurt - oh yeah, those were our only two losses to someone other than Calvin).