MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[realist]

TQ:  Thanks for the objective viewpoint.  We miss that during the regular season.  I tend to agree that no one on Calvin's team most nights really shines, and also the point it doesn't seem like Calvin lost control at the end.  That last point is one I am sure many Hope posters will identify with.  Cramer didn't have to play alot of minutes in many Hope games this year so his pts. total  is lower than it could easily be.  Personally I expect to see todays game with Calvin finding itself in the role of having to play catchup, and Hope trying to hold them off at the end.  Much will depend on how tired Calvin's players are  Neither team will go down without a heck of a fight.  It could resemble an episode of Survivor.

[petemcb]

HopeConvert, I will definitely be at the game tonight and am really looking forward to it.  My son is uncommitted at this point.  He already had plans but the impulsiveness of a high school junior allows room for enough unpredictability that maybe he'll still be there in the end.  I'll be sure to find you tonight.  How early will you be there?

[petemcb]

Just to confirm what's been heard, I heard it said twice last night, by Aurora officials, that tickets would be on sale at 5:30 tonight.

[HopeConvert]

What I see to be the keys for tonight's game:

1. I've said this every game: Reimink has to stay out of early foul trouble.
2. How bad is DVS's knee? He's clearly not 100%.
3. How much did that second half take out of Calvin last night? Will Hope be able to exploit its bench strength?
4. Keep Veltema from getting open looks. Calvin does an excellent job finding the open holes on the floor, and moving their shooters to those spots. Sometimes they do it with screens, sometimes with ball rotation. With Hope's trapping defense they are susceptible to leaving shooters open, and Veltema has burned them in the last two games. Griffin will get his points because he can create shots for himself, as can Veldhouse. But Veltema can't create his own shot yet at this point, but is deadly when left open. If he scores more than 10, it's Calvin's game.
5. What will Cramer do? I don't expect to see a performance like last night's, but I do expect to see him not want his last game to be against Calvin.
6. Most importantly in my estimation: Hope has to get off to a quick start. They can't spot a team like Calvin a dozen points in the first five minutes. Until last night, their last 8-10 games have been marked by sluggish beginnings. A quick start will do wonders for the confidence and looseness. A slow start will put everyone in "here we go again" mode.


I don't know that my heart, promptly and sincerely, can handle another one of these games.

[HopeConvert]

HopeConvert, I will definitely be at the game tonight and am really looking forward to it.  My son is uncommitted at this point.  He already had plans but the impulsiveness of a high school junior allows room for enough unpredictability that maybe he'll still be there in the end.  I'll be sure to find you tonight.  How early will you be there?

Probably around 5:30. I don't want to have to sit behind the Dew Crew again. One disadvantage of Hope/Calvin games: lots of tall Dutch people sitting in front of you.

[oldknight]

I'd say that Calvin played pretty well overall, but no individual player really caught my attention and nothing about Calvin made me think they can advance far in the tourney (with Hope I left thinking that Cramer is so good they could go as far as he takes them).  Hope and Calvin overall seem pretty even to me and I guess the regular season results prove that.  Cramer was by far the best player I saw last night among the 4 teams, but I see he "only" averages 16 ppg, so he can't be quite as ridiculous night in and night out as he was vs Chicago.

Your comments are very much on the mark--especially about Cramer who was clearly the best player in the MIAA this year. As you note he "only" averages 16 ppg but I've long thought that when evaluating a player's scoring ability and overall effectiveness, the most important factor to consider is not how many, but when that player scores his points. A lot of people can score baskets after the outcome is decided but not many can hoist their team on their shoulders and create scoring opportunities (and cash in on them) when the game is on the line. Calvin's 2000 championship team (led by D3 player of the year Aaron Winkle) had more than one player like that. Cramer is the type of player who can do that too which makes him a tough matchup during tournament play. He's also unselfish and doesn't seem to feel the need to promote himself which partly explains why he "only" averaged 16 a game this year. His ego never required the padding of stats in games Hope was winning easily.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I'd say that Calvin played pretty well overall, but no individual player really caught my attention and nothing about Calvin made me think they can advance far in the tourney (with Hope I left thinking that Cramer is so good they could go as far as he takes them).  Hope and Calvin overall seem pretty even to me and I guess the regular season results prove that.  Cramer was by far the best player I saw last night among the 4 teams, but I see he "only" averages 16 ppg, so he can't be quite as ridiculous night in and night out as he was vs Chicago.

Your comments are very much on the mark--especially about Cramer who was clearly the best player in the MIAA this year. As you note he "only" averages 16 ppg but I've long thought that when evaluating a player's scoring ability and overall effectiveness, the most important factor to consider is not how many, but when that player scores his points. A lot of people can score baskets after the outcome is decided but not many can hoist their team on their shoulders and create scoring opportunities (and cash in on them) when the game is on the line. Calvin's 2000 championship team (led by D3 player of the year Aaron Winkle) had more than one player like that. Cramer is the type of player who can do that too which makes him a tough matchup during tournament play. He's also unselfish and doesn't seem to feel the need to promote himself which partly explains why he "only" averaged 16 a game this year. His ego never required the padding of stats in games Hope was winning easily.

Well said oldknight - you nailed it

[northb]

I am really looking forward to the game this evening.  Having seen these two teams just once a piece, I'd say that on a neutral court Hope is favored by about 6 points.

If this season is any indicator for this rivalry, a neutral court is an advantage when compared to home court.

[gohope]

I'd say that Calvin played pretty well overall, but no individual player really caught my attention and nothing about Calvin made me think they can advance far in the tourney (with Hope I left thinking that Cramer is so good they could go as far as he takes them).  Hope and Calvin overall seem pretty even to me and I guess the regular season results prove that.  Cramer was by far the best player I saw last night among the 4 teams, but I see he "only" averages 16 ppg, so he can't be quite as ridiculous night in and night out as he was vs Chicago.

Your comments are very much on the mark--especially about Cramer who was clearly the best player in the MIAA this year. As you note he "only" averages 16 ppg but I've long thought that when evaluating a player's scoring ability and overall effectiveness, the most important factor to consider is not how many, but when that player scores his points. A lot of people can score baskets after the outcome is decided but not many can hoist their team on their shoulders and create scoring opportunities (and cash in on them) when the game is on the line. Calvin's 2000 championship team (led by D3 player of the year Aaron Winkle) had more than one player like that. Cramer is the type of player who can do that too which makes him a tough matchup during tournament play. He's also unselfish and doesn't seem to feel the need to promote himself which partly explains why he "only" averaged 16 a game this year. His ego never required the padding of stats in games Hope was winning easily.

Well said oldknight - you nailed it

That's it? We expect more from you! Give us your real thoughts!

[hope1]

the doors open  1 1/2  hours before the game tonight

[Titan Q]

What an odd development.  The Rivalry that can put 11,000 fans in the seats will play in front of its smallest crowd in years!  It's like Rocky and Apollo fighting it out in the empty gym.

After all of the questions about AU's gym size (whether it really held as many fans as D3hoops says it did), was the gym packed last night?  And, as Hope and Calvin have two of the best followings in D-3, will it really be a small crowd tonight?  I mean, comparitively, there aren't going to be 3000 people at the game... but AU's gym won't seem empty, will it?  It seems like more Calvin and Hope fans would have made the trip?

I don't forsee it being the the UWSP/Lawrence Elite 8 game from three years ago, where 250 people (maybe...) saw one of the best basketball games that I've ever seen, for sure.

Hope and Calvin had terrific crowds there last night -- I know each school sold out its allotment (not sure what that final number was).  With a lot of tickets now available, I'd expect a ton of Calvin and Hope fans who weren't there last night to pile into AU's gym this evening.  This is what happened last year when Illinois Wesleyan defeated Lawrence on Friday night in the Sectional and faced Puget Sound on Saturday.  IWU fans travel just like Hope and Calvin fans, and I'll bet there were twice as many Titans supporters in Appleton, WI Saturday as there were the night before.  And IWU/Puget Sound is obviously nothing like Calvin/Hope.

Aurora's gym is not very big -- I'd guess it holds about 2000.  I'd estimate that last night there were about 700 Hope and Calvin fans there combined (about 1/3 of the capacity, whatever that actually is).  I'll bet tonight there will be double that.  And then you have all of the casual Division III fans like Pete McBride, Greg Sager, myself, misc. coaches from around the region, etc. who are all heading back.

Put it this way -- it won't resemble that Stevens Point/Lawrence game played in Tacoma, WA in any way, shape, or form.

[Titan Q]

HopeConvert, I will definitely be at the game tonight and am really looking forward to it.  My son is uncommitted at this point.  He already had plans but the impulsiveness of a high school junior allows room for enough unpredictability that maybe he'll still be there in the end.  I'll be sure to find you tonight.  How early will you be there?

Among Pete's son's final college choices are Calvin, Hope, and Illinois Wesleyan.  The young man obviously likes Division III schools that draw well!

http://www.ncaa.org/stats/m_basketball/attendance/2006_basketball_attend.pdf

[ScotsFan]

I am really looking forward to the game this evening.  Having seen these two teams just once a piece, I'd say that on a neutral court Hope is favored by about 6 points.

Interesting that you would feel that way TitanQ.  Especially, given the fact that Calvin has won consecutive games at Hope, a neutral court will almost seem like a home game for Calvin comparatively speaking.  Who knows, mabybe the change of scenery will be good for Hope.

[chidutch]

the doors open  1 1/2  hours before the game tonight

I know it's a silly question, but one that bears asking.  I've never been to AU and will be in attendance tonight waiting at the doors when the gym opens and was wondering what the parking situation is like over there?  Easy to find?  Impossible to find?  Any insight from last night's attendees?

[petemcb]

What an odd development.  The Rivalry that can put 11,000 fans in the seats will play in front of its smallest crowd in years!  It's like Rocky and Apollo fighting it out in the empty gym.

Aurora's gym is not very big -- I'd guess it holds about 2000.  I'd estimate that last night there were about 700 Hope and Calvin fans there combined (about 1/3 of the capacity, whatever that actually is).  I'll bet tonight there will be double that.  And then you have all of the casual Division III fans like Pete McBride, Greg Sager, myself, misc. coaches from around the region, etc. who are all heading back.

Put it this way -- it won't resemble that Stevens Point/Lawrence game played in Tacoma, WA in any way, shape, or form.

Bob, if you and Greg fall into the category of "casual Division III fans", who would you see as committed, passionate, well-versed in the ways of D3, and fanatical enough to be classed as a serious fan.