MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

Watched "UCLA Dynasty" on one of the HBO channels last night, it should be required viewing for any basketball player, coach or fan.

I enjoyed the highlights of the games without palming, grabbing and constant physical contact.

[almcguirejr]

Went to the Class A semi-finals yesterday, I was underwhelmed by our Mr. Basketball, Corperryale (Manny) Harris.  I've seen about 15 in person and Harris would rank near the bottom of that list.

Warren DeLasalle played the best team basketball of the four in my opinion, extremely well coached........I imagine a couple of those Seniors might be on Albion's radar considering how many DeLasalle kids end up at Albion.  They had a nice plan for Harris, makeing his teamates beat them and fortunately for Redford they did.

Ann Arbor Pioneer looked so scared of Saginaw it was almost funny, I know at least 1 Pioneer was interested in Hope but I don't recall which one.  But they should be commended for fighting to the finish and keeping in touch with Saginaw.  Saginaw really should have won by about 25.  Interesting moment at the end, the Pioneer coach was trying to sub for his 5 Sr's on the floor and the kids at the end of the bench wouldn't go in........never saw that before, after some uh....encouragement they went in.

Saginaw is good but I think we've had better Class A Champions, they're huge for HS and take advantage of it but I don't think I saw a post move from either of their big guys all weekend.  HS teams just don't have the ball handling skills or smarts to beat the press Saginaw employs and they use it to their advantage.  Overall underwhelmed by the Trojans..........or maybe I just can't get past the king size sheets they wear as uniforms. .........that and they use the OSU fight song

I was there for Friday and Saturday.  The Saturday games (except for the A game) were very good.  Draymond Green, from Saginaw, is a very good player.  He committed to Kentucky as a junior this year, with Tubby Smith leaving he is now uncommitted.  I agree with Sac about Corpperryale Harris.  Unimpressive and rail thin, I don't see how he is able to handle physical Big 10 play.

I nominated C.J. Paquin, the kid from Cedarville, for Faces in the Crowd in Sports Illustrated.  He came off the bench to score 27 points on 8-13 shooting .  He was 6-11 on 3's.  5-5 from the line.  He is probably 5'10' and 140 lbs and a 10th grader.  He wasn't lucky either, he had a great stroke and when he received the ball he was in the shooting position and he let it go in perfect rhythm.  Cedarville scored more than 90 points in 12 games this year.  80 or more in 18.  I don't think they had a kid on their roster over 6'.

One of the nice things about the weekend for me was the MHSAA did not allow music to be played on the arena sound system.  A couple of pep bands played, but I didn't have 120 decibels of noise assaulting my ears at every stoppage of play.

[realist]

I couldn't agree more with Sac.  Perhaps today's players are bigger, faster, stronger, but basketball was intended to be a finesse game.  Take UCLA with Lew Alcindor (lka Kareem) versus this years D1 champion using refs, and rules from those days, and it is no contest.  Take Floyd Brady from Hope 68 or Marc Veenstra Calvin 77 versus Amherst with those rules, and it would equal banners every time.  The athletes may have gotten better, but the game has gone down hill.  Amen: brother Al on the noise.

[Pat Coleman]

Amherst is not exactly a power/physical team.

Other than the lack of a three-point line I am not sure they would have any trouble being just as good in 1977. And they might be able to adjust to that.

[hope1]

now they announced tonight at the blast game now april  20 at halftime dodge bowl round 1 hope vs calvin

[diehardfan]

I thought I was the karma fairy...

Or was that FDF?

Seriously, I guess I'm a CCIW person, but I didn't smite over that either... I know a funny joke when I see one.

However, I get smited at least twice every time I post on the CCIW board... It's not a friendly place in that way and should probably just be left alone for a good while....

[AndOne]

I couldn't agree more with Sac.  Perhaps today's players are bigger, faster, stronger, but basketball was intended to be a finesse game.  Take UCLA with Lew Alcindor (lka Kareem) versus this years D1 champion using refs, and rules from those days, and it is no contest.  Take Floyd Brady from Hope 68 or Marc Veenstra Calvin 77 versus Amherst with those rules, and it would equal banners every time.  The athletes may have gotten better, but the game has gone down hill.  Amen: brother Al on the noise.

Not going to comment on individual players or any specific teams here, and I'm not sure if "basketball was intended to be a finesse game." However, I do know two things (hopefully more) about the game:

1. Today's kids are bigger, faster, stronger, and can jump a lot higher, in most cases, than the players of 10-30 years ago. From a pure athletic standpoint, its no contest. That a huge chunk of today's game is played "above the rim" as compared with the past, is a basic truism.

2. Today's kids are, however, significantly lacking behind yesterday's players in the areas of ballhandling/dribbling, passing, shooting, defense, hustle, and teamwork. How often do we see a superior ballhandler that can break down a defense or is a master of the drive and dish? Heck, the refs could call palming/carrying the ball at least half the time. Passing has degenerated into simple handoffs or lazy one handed passes that as often as not result in a turnover rather than an assist. As far as shooting---the ability of the vast majority of players to hit a mid-range jumper is almost a lost art. Its not hard to explain why---its because hardly anybody ever practices shooting from 6-14 feet anymore. Its like the only points that count are slam dunks or 25 foot 3 point bombs. When players get together for pickup games and after formal team practice ends, what do the kids all do---they try to outdo eact other and show off dunking, or they go out and fire up 25 footers. Also, many players current idea of defense is either an imitation of a matador or operating under the doctrine I heard a player explain to his coach this year, namely "I'm not here to play defense coach, I'm here to score."

Not sure about you, but give me a player who hustles, plays defense/rebounds, passes more to his teammates than to players wearing a different color jersey, and can shoot a decent percentage of "good" shots and free throws, and I'll bet he would see some significant minutes. Give me a team of guys like that and I'll show you a winner.

Lastly, this is not meant to be an inditement of today's players who can do things players of earlier generations never even thought of, but rather an observation of what I see on a regular basis. And yes, of course there are exceptions to these general observations. Those exceptions are often the type of player that many of us who love basketball like to watch play the most of all.

[HopeConvert]

Two observations on recent posts:

1. One thing I have lamented is the loss of the mid-range jumper. Clearly the 3-point line has had a negative effect on this skill, but it is also a simple risk-reward calculus. The advent of the 3-point shot introduced some gains to the game, but also significant losses. My preference would be to eliminate it. Then again, I'm still waging battles on the incorporation doctrine, so I guess I'm used to titling at windmills.
2. I agree with Pat - all the officials have to do is call the game the way the rulebook indicates and the players will adjust. If they start consistently calling palming and bumping and handchecking, it won't take too long for players to stop doing those things. A variation on natural selection.

[oldknight]

Being an oldknight I'll weigh in on the topic of the week--the differences between basketball (and the players who play it) of today compared to many years ago. As I see it there are three basic changes in the game that have occurred over the years.

1) An increased emphasis on weight training.

2) An increased use of benches (with more frequent rotations) by coaches.

3) Officiating that allows more body contact.

Players today do seem to have more muscular (almost football-like) bodies than did players of years ago which presumably makes a better all-around athlete. But I don't agree that this characteristic necessarily translates into a better basketball athlete. Players of years ago relied more on finesse than players do today but there were plenty of big bodies around in the 60's and 70's. Floyd Brady was a muscular but silky smooth 6'5" who would be just as dominating today as he was when playing for the Dutchmen teams of the 60's. Mark Veenstra was a monstrous 6'9", 245, who would be just as difficult to stop today as he was in the 70's. Larry Vanderveen was a bruising 6'3" player who would easily handle the physical nature that today's officiating allows. These players were great athletes who would adjust to today's game in a heartbeat.

Even in today's game there is still a place for the basketball athlete who understands how to use finesse to play effectively. Aaron Winkle is one recent MIAA basketball athlete who knew how to play the game without the need to try and overpower an opponent with physical play. There was many a game when I sat in the north bleachers and marveled at his ability to avoid the type of contact that a more physical (i.e., the "better athlete") player would try to use to throw Aaron off balance. He also developed the necessary outside shot to draw that type of defender outside of his comfort zone. Steve Cramer was that type of player too.

I think most of us would agree that in today's world the use of midrange jumpers to make life more difficult for defenses is less common and the 3 point line has a lot to do with that. Richard Hamilton is one of the few professional players who is able to make a pretty good living with the use of that skill. The use of midrange jumpers once was considered bread and butter for almost all players but in today's game it's a rarity.

Coaches' substitution patterns are an area of the game that has changed a lot over the years. Years ago I think it was pretty common for a coach to play his top two or three players 30-35 minutes a game but that is no longer the case. On many teams the top players average less than 30 minutes a game and players 9 and 10 get more PT than in the past when they used to get little more than mop up duty. KVS often uses 4 minute rotations for his starters and uses frequent use of his ninth and tenth players. 

The bottom line is that the best players of years ago would be the best players today--and the best players of today would be the best players of years ago.

[realist]

Not sure I was at the same games as some of you.   "Above the rim".  Really!  How many total dunks were made or even attempted in the 5 Hope/Calvin games?  I didn't see much "above the rim" that Veenstra or Brady didn't do years ago.  Also for a period of time it was a technical foul to dunk" the ball.  My point was.  One game winner take all those 68 & 77 teams beat this years teams.   In the few games I actually saw a palming or carrying or even traveling called it seemed to negatively impact the player everytime.  Could they adjust over a season yes, but one game no.  Having seen both of them play Floyd Brady was Hope's best all time player, and he would have been mvp this year just like 68.  Ditto for Veentsra.  If you didn't see them play you probably don't fully appreciate what good athletes, and players they were.  Their  records have stood for decades because they were that good.

[almcguirejr]

There is also a desire by some to bring a shot clock to High School basketball.  Anything that brings HS or College basketball closer to the NBA game of today needs to be resisted.  That is a game and a culture that few should want to emulate.

[almcguirejr]

Stephen Bell is reporting 6'1" guard Kelvin Carter from Midland is going to Hope.
He's a 3rd team Class A All State player.  Kelvin has a personal diary going on Great Lakes Hoops.   

[sac]

I believe this is the first time ever that the 3 most frequently mentioned names on the annual circulation of emails I get from time to time have all chosen Hope.  Kelvin is the 2nd Class A all-stater to choose Hope, joining Tanis.........thats alot for D3.

I understand that Kelvin is also an outstanding student.  He's been described to me as a super point, quick with good ability to drive the lane.  Needs to develop an outside shot.........kind of reminds me of how Matt Taylor was described a few years back.


Stephen Bell also has John Mantel listed as the top remaining power forward ........   (last years list obviously)

Bankhoops.com  ----from time to time there's some good info on a number of other players who seem to "disappear" from our consciousness. 

[sac]

There is also a desire by some to bring a shot clock to High School basketball.  Anything that brings HS or College basketball closer to the NBA game of today needs to be resisted.  That is a game and a culture that few should want to emulate.

We actually talked about a shot clock during the semi-final games when both Saginaw and Redford took the air out of the ball, and the life out of each semi-final game.  I'd be in favor of some sort of shot clock..........but with only 8 minute quarters a shot clock may actually have the undesireable affect of slowing down the HS game even more.


Who remembers when the Big East played their conference season with 6 fouls as an experiment?

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Two observations on recent posts:

1. One thing I have lamented is the loss of the mid-range jumper. Clearly the 3-point line has had a negative effect on this skill, but it is also a simple risk-reward calculus. The advent of the 3-point shot introduced some gains to the game, but also significant losses. My preference would be to eliminate it. Then again, I'm still waging battles on the incorporation doctrine, so I guess I'm used to titling at windmills.

I realize this is not a D3 player of course. But when of the best pure midrange shooters in basketball at any level is Luol Deng of the Chicago Bulls. He has only taken 4 3-point attempts all year and is not a typical post up player. He creates almost every point by slashing to the hoop or taking a mid-range shot. He had 38 on Monday against the Blazers without taking a 3. I think a lot of players would be well suited to watch him play to see how good they could be without relying on the three.