MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

News of the day........  Looks like some Hope frat boys might have to work a bit harder this summer.

http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/michigan/index.ssf?/base/news-44/1180987469292160.xml&storylist=newsmichigan

[Flying Dutch Fan]

When's the Holland summer league kick into action?

Tonight

here's the schedule:

http://www.cityofholland.com/cihollandmius/assets/Rec_Summer07BBScheduleA.pdf

[Civic Minded]

Oh good grief...   

[hope1]

missed you tonight  civic and flying dutchmen   at the summer league game tonight hope looked pretty good tonight  going to watch calvin play next week

[NW Hope Fan]

Been gone for a few days, so just catching up.

Sorry to see April go, but I do have one issue/complaint: I sort of get the idea of HOF's being able to "correct" posts, and in some ways it makes sense to have individuals, who by their very posting nature, are able to "screen" or "filter" inappropriate posts... But why is it possible to completely remove posts, because you don't like what it says or that it is addressed to you specifically?

As far as Karma... Earlier in the year I was tying to recover negative Karma for all on the board... for some posters I hated doing it, because quite frankly I'd rather give them negative karma for what they write, but in an effort to keep everyone above zero I tried. Obviously someone out there will be one day facing real life negative karma, because I just can't keep up with the hope1 hater!

The way karma is handed out is silly! It would be nice to see a list of karma givers and takers associated with each poster. And, I think a reason should be given for either. Maybe the HOF's could pick up another job: KARMA FILTERS...

[ziggy]

When's the Holland summer league kick into action?

Tonight

here's the schedule:

http://www.cityofholland.com/cihollandmius/assets/Rec_Summer07BBScheduleA.pdf

I'm guessing rosters may not be published online, but could someone make one up for the rest of us?

[Pat Coleman]

I didn't invent the term. It's used elsewhere on the site, on one of the many boards that is not MIAA men's basketball.

[bulldogalum]

I know I've been away for awhile, but this karma discussion is something else.  Frankly, I'd be happy to publish any positive or negative karma I give.  As a starting point, I just gave positive karma to sac for his diatribe on not caring about karma.  I agree that karma doesn't matter, but as long as we have it, I'll continue to reward what I think are especially good posts and I will give negative karma for posts that lack a certain level of respect for the other posters on this site (I rarely give out negative karma, never for opinions with which I disagree). 

[Ralph Turner]

I know I've been away for awhile, but this karma discussion is something else.  Frankly, I'd be happy to publish any positive or negative karma I give.  As a starting point, I just gave positive karma to sac for his diatribe on not caring about karma.  I agree that karma doesn't matter, but as long as we have it, I'll continue to reward what I think are especially good posts and I will give negative karma for posts that lack a certain level of respect for the other posters on this site (I rarely give out negative karma, never for opinions with which I disagree). 

Board surfing...

Re: smiting... I applaud posts that contain valuable content on the respective boards and smite inane, puerile or profane posts.  My applaud to smite ratio is about 10:1.

I will applaud a "newbie" whose early posts show wisdom and maturity and frequently let them know I gave them a +1!  I will occasionally send a personal message or an email acknowledging their contributions.

As for karma, theologically, it is a heathen concept, foreign to the Judeo-Christian understanding of the Almighty.    In all things, God gives us unmerited Grace, sufficient to our every need! 

[Civic Minded]

missed you tonight  civic and flying dutchmen   at the summer league game tonight hope looked pretty good tonight  going to watch calvin play next week

Yeah, tonight just didn't work out.     Definitely will try for next week.

Found out this weekend though that St. Joe seems to be where Hope players go to retire.     Good to see you, guys!   

[sac]

Before I get patted on the back for not careing about karma too much, I should point out that if Pat did put together the numbers I'd probably be surprised by the number of +'s and -'s I've doled out and to who.  But I do know I don't log on everyday with that sole intention, and that was/is happening.


I don't have as clearly defined personal guidlines as Ralph, but basically if it makes me laugh +k, .   Negative karma is probably a tougher one to define, I don't think I've used it much, but like I said I bet I'd be surprised.    For me using the negative function is just a losing proposition because I get a revenge ding whether I actually did it or not, just because I post here prominently.  So for me, a negative karma has no use as manner of expressing an opinion on a post.  Many times i've been online when someone got dinged, so they assume its me and ding me in return.

I'll admit last night I watched the karma #s for a couple people, and 2 Calvin posters got negative karma, I logged on to help April in her erasing herself, didn't come in this room, sure enough I got a revenge ding for just being logged on.  The assumption being that I did the negative dinging on them, which was false. 

Its sort of like people assuming I've deleted alot of posts because I have HofF status.  Truth is I can only think of 4 times I've felt a need to do it,

1.  a series of posts about a parents behavior;    just simply a topic that shouldn't be on here, and administrators would agree with me on this one

2.  a link posted with clear intention to inflame the board when we had long moved past the subject.

3.  can't remember

4.  an April post yesterday, that contained something I told her in confidence that shouldn't be public knowledge and frankly would embarrass an individual and school to no end.

Lastly, probably a half dozen of my own, where I felt I crossed a line or got to personal with a poster or two.  Self censorship.

All of those except #4, I asked first if I could remove them, and directed them to pat if they had questions.    Its not as if we hall of famers are floating around looking for stuff to delete, nor deleting stuff because its an opposing opinion.  Far from it.  We do have to answer for it from Pat, we can't act with impunity.  We aren't the forum police, nor want to be.

Fixing errors in formatting, yeah I think we've all done that, just makes the board more readable.  I see nothing wrong with that.


Being a hall of famer is just a weird status, one because i'm not totally sure I'm qualified for that, and two because it just makes you a target.  But this year in particular all over the board I've seen hall of famers be taken to task for meanial insignificant stuff, challenged repeatedly and motivations challenged.  For me its happened right here in this room.  I've made efforts to meet people over the last few years, and it gets very frustrating to be repeatedly and openly challenged by people who want to hide behind names so they can be more critical and rude.   We're not asking for our comments or opinions to be taken as gospel, just respected as frequent and long time contributors to this site.   I don't wish to have to log on and spend an hour breaking down what I meant in a post, that gets exasperrating...............and I can tell you without a doubt, the way you approach a poster on line changes significantly when you meet that person. 

Pat granted or voted me into the hall of fame a couple years ago and I'd like to think it was an acknowledgement that what I've contributed to this site for a long time now has been well thought of and appreciated.  I like coming here and talking about the league and its teams, its history etc.   Sometimes its a bit hard to live up to that kind of status, but I give it a go.   I see nothing wrong with Pat acknowledging the people who have made this site better and more readable.  Posters like TitanQ, Warren, Ralph, Sager, Collinge, myself and April have all been here for a number of years or since the beginning, all of them have contributed immensly to the readability and knowledge on the site.  Each one has made me want to be a better contributer.  I look at these posters as the ones who set good examples and, yes they should be followed and applauded for their efforts.  Having a Hall of Fame is just Pats way of thanking the people who have helped make this site enjoyable.

Frankly I dont' see where anyone is walking around saying "look at me I'm a Hall of Famer".

So anyways, a little late night novel to ward off insomnia...........i just read it, seems kind of rambling but I hope it hit the topics I wanted and gave you a bit of insite into how I feel about it all.

[Ralph Turner]

As for karma, theologically, it is a heathen concept, foreign to the Judeo-Christian understanding of the Almighty.

I'll relate to my friend, a Buddhist, that his belief in karma, one of the fundamental doctrines of his religion, makes him a heathen. I guess that kind of judgmental assessment is "representative of a fine Division III education."

OxyBob

Good evening, Bob.

I send him my love and God's Grace. 

When we lived in Hawai'i, one of my very dearest friends had been married to his Christian wife for nearly 50 years when he finally converted to Christianity from Buddhism because of the love that he finally saw in her.

As for the word heathen, I used it as "one who does not believe in the God of the Bible".  I made no pejorative comment.  God asks me to "love my neighbor as myself" (Leviticus 19:18) and then Jesus segues that quotation from the Torah to go into the story of the Good Samaritan.  ( Gee, I guess for me if they ain't white Anglo-Saxon Protestant Texan Red-neck, then that makes them "Samaritan" and I am commanded to love them.    )

If in my discussions with him, he described an understanding of the "Good" that he saw in the Natural Law, then I would begin to develop the case of his understanding thru the Natural Law in Romans Chapter 2.  If we ultimately meet in Heaven, then I will have understood that he knew that the law required him to bear witness to his conscience (Romans 2:15-16) and God would judge him by the true love, that is Jesus Christ, kind of a "big long algebra equation". 

I think that I will be pleased to see all of the people who are saved that I did not know would be saved, but their faith and their seeing the absolute love thru God's Grace gives them the big "duh" moment at the final judgment.  They just cannot choose "evil", and they accept God's free gift of Grace, an unmerited love.

But that was one whole semester course in my D-III education... 

[Ralph Turner]

Before I get patted on the back for not caring about karma too much, I should point out that if Pat did put together the numbers I'd probably be surprised by the number of +'s and -'s I've doled out and to who.  But I do know I don't log on everyday with that sole intention, and that was/is happening.


I don't have as clearly defined personal guidlines as Ralph, but basically if it makes me laugh +k, .   Negative karma is probably a tougher one to define, I don't think I've used it much, but like I said I bet I'd be surprised.    For me using the negative function is just a losing proposition because I get a revenge ding whether I actually did it or not, just because I post here prominently.  So for me, a negative karma has no use as manner of expressing an opinion on a post.  Many times i've been online when someone got dinged, so they assume its me and ding me in return.

I'll admit last night I watched the karma #s for a couple people, and 2 Calvin posters got negative karma, I logged on to help April in her erasing herself, didn't come in this room, sure enough I got a revenge ding for just being logged on.  The assumption being that I did the negative dinging on them, which was false. 

Its sort of like people assuming I've deleted alot of posts because I have HofF status.  Truth is I can only think of 4 times I've felt a need to do it,

1.  a series of posts about a parents behavior;    just simply a topic that shouldn't be on here, and administrators would agree with me on this one

2.  a link posted with clear intention to inflame the board when we had long moved past the subject.

3.  can't remember

4.  an April post yesterday, that contained something I told her in confidence that shouldn't be public knowledge and frankly would embarrass an individual and school to no end.

Lastly, probably a half dozen of my own, where I felt I crossed a line or got to personal with a poster or two.  Self censorship.

All of those except #4, I asked first if I could remove them, and directed them to pat if they had questions.    Its not as if we hall of famers are floating around looking for stuff to delete, nor deleting stuff because its an opposing opinion.  Far from it.  We do have to answer for it from Pat, we can't act with impunity.  We aren't the forum police, nor want to be.

Fixing errors in formatting, yeah I think we've all done that, just makes the board more readable.  I see nothing wrong with that.


Being a hall of famer is just a weird status, one because i'm not totally sure I'm qualified for that, and two because it just makes you a target.  But this year in particular all over the board I've seen hall of famers be taken to task for meanial insignificant stuff, challenged repeatedly and motivations challenged.  For me its happened right here in this room.  I've made efforts to meet people over the last few years, and it gets very frustrating to be repeatedly and openly challenged by people who want to hide behind names so they can be more critical and rude.   We're not asking for our comments or opinions to be taken as gospel, just respected as frequent and long time contributors to this site.   I don't wish to have to log on and spend an hour breaking down what I meant in a post, that gets exasperrating...............and I can tell you without a doubt, the way you approach a poster on line changes significantly when you meet that person. 

Pat granted or voted me into the hall of fame a couple years ago and I'd like to think it was an acknowledgement that what I've contributed to this site for a long time now has been well thought of and appreciated.  I like coming here and talking about the league and its teams, its history etc.   Sometimes its a bit hard to live up to that kind of status, but I give it a go.   I see nothing wrong with Pat acknowledging the people who have made this site better and more readable.  Posters like TitanQ, Warren, Ralph, Sager, Collinge, myself and April have all been here for a number of years or since the beginning, all of them have contributed immensly to the readability and knowledge on the site.  Each one has made me want to be a better contributer.  I look at these posters as the ones who set good examples and, yes they should be followed and applauded for their efforts.  Having a Hall of Fame is just Pats way of thanking the people who have helped make this site enjoyable.

Frankly I dont' see where anyone is walking around saying "look at me I'm a Hall of Famer".

So anyways, a little late night novel to ward off insomnia...........i just read it, seems kind of rambling but I hope it hit the topics I wanted and gave you a bit of insite into how I feel about it all.

Well stated, sac.  The Hall of Fame designation is a privilege and bears with it the obligation to help make the boards a better place.

There are times when I have not used my HOF status to support the boards as much as I should.  I have discussed that with Pat and I try to bear the responsibility of HOF to the best of my ability.

I think that the message boards have become much better in the last few years.  Clearly we saw the Baseball boards get up to speed very quickly.  The civil mature discussions make for thoughtful reading.

What this MIAA board needs are more non-Calvin, non-Hope posters.  I hope that TSU can bring some new interest. 

[Titan Q]

The karma feature would work much better if every poster could see a list of where their negative karma came from.  It would create a sense of accountability for the people dishing it out and would stop all of the silly "closet smiting." 

I probably pay less attention to karma that just about anyone here (and I've never given anyone either positive or negative karma because I think the system is flawed as is), but I know yesterday I had "42."  Then after the following post on CCIW Chat yesterday, I had 41...

A group of IWU's returning and incoming players are on a team up in the suburbs, but I'm not sure where.  I believe it includes Brett Chamernik, Elias Washington, Sean Dwyer (if healthy), Duncan Lawson, Doug Sexauer, Edmond O'Callaghan, and Chris Stamas.

The guys who stay around B-N end up playing against the Illinois State players on a pretty regular basis throughout the summer.

Very controversial post obviously.

All of the "closet smiting" undermines the credibility of the system.  If somehow people could see where it was coming from, they could initiate dialogue with the smiter and have a real conversation about what problem the person had with the post(s).  It would also stop all of the silliness.  As is, I suspect we have people that just smite the same posters day after day for no reason.

[ziggy]

In the new age of full discolsure, I gave sac +k for his idea to rid the place karma altogether.

I'm a regular participant in another forum board that does not have any sort of karma system and people still know who is reputable, knowledgable, or otherwise trustworthy.  I think that a better system would be the ability to applaud/smite a particular post, rather than giving a running total to an individual, so that it is clear what is applauded or smited.