MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Stinger]

That's a really intriguing tournament.

That's not a very intriguing response....

What's intriguing is the multi-regionality, the three NCAA Tournament teams and the fact that teams who don't normally see each other will face off. Color me not intrigued by more games against Cornerstone and Aquinas.

Now that is intriguing.   

I agree. I find it curious as to why Grace Bible gets on Calvin's schedule.  That game doesn't help Calvin get any better. Do they want to schedule like UM, or MSU?

Like it or not  Aquinas and Cornerstone are West Michigan rivals.  I think Calvin and Hope should be playing these two schools every year. 

I can see that in the future, Davenport might be worth the schedule.  Obviously it remains to be seen, but from what I read, they are making a big committment to athletics.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

That's a really intriguing tournament.

That's not a very intriguing response....

What's intriguing is the multi-regionality, the three NCAA Tournament teams and the fact that teams who don't normally see each other will face off. Color me not intrigued by more games against Cornerstone and Aquinas.

Now that is intriguing.   

I agree. I find it curious as to why Grace Bible gets on Calvin's schedule.  That game doesn't help Calvin get any better. Do they want to schedule like UM, or MSU?

Like it or not  Aquinas and Cornerstone are West Michigan rivals.  I think Calvin and Hope should be playing these two schools every year. 

I can see that in the future, Davenport might be worth the schedule.  Obviously it remains to be see, but from what I read, they are making a big committment to athletics.

Yes, there are actually a number of the "lesser" schools that aren't quite the "cake walk" they used to be.  Davenport is very committed to athletics.  Grace Bible and Madonna continue to improve.  Do we all wish we could replace games against them with a quality DIII opponent - sure.  Have the AD's and coaches attempted to do that - to the best of my knowledge, yes.

[SBell]

Davenport's definitely going in the right direction with Lewis Preston as coach. Quality guy, a lifer coach type, who is recruiting as far away as Flint.

[Pat Coleman]

That's a really intriguing tournament.

That's not a very intriguing response....

What's intriguing is the multi-regionality, the three NCAA Tournament teams and the fact that teams who don't normally see each other will face off. Color me not intrigued by more games against Cornerstone and Aquinas.

Now that is intriguing.   

I agree. I find it curious as to why Grace Bible gets on Calvin's schedule.  That game doesn't help Calvin get any better. Do they want to schedule like UM, or MSU?

Like it or not  Aquinas and Cornerstone are West Michigan rivals.  I think Calvin and Hope should be playing these two schools every year. 

That's fine, but it doesn't make it intriguing to Division III.

[GoKnights68]

I can see that in the future, Davenport might be worth the schedule.  Obviously it remains to be seen, but from what I read, they are making a big committment to athletics.





Yeah they're building a whole new gym right now I hear.  It will seat about 1500 or so.  Their mens team has struggled lately, but they're moving in the right direction.  The women's team has been a national force the past few years.

[realist]

Wow!!    Some of you guys are tough.  When I look at Calvin's pre-conference schedule I see a rather demanding schedule.  How many D3 teams are fighting for a chance to come to GR to play Calvin?   If Calvin goes 1-5 are you going to say the coach and AD were stupid to get that schedule?
With "intriguing" being the word for this summer I am curious how many D3 schools have a more demanding or "intriguing" preconference schedule than Calvin?  I would like to see more in region games myself, but find it hard to be critical of a schedule with many quality opponents.  I think Mr Turner (and Pat) make an excellent point that Calvin's schedule sure has multi-region competition which many of us have spoken about for years.

[almcguirejr]

A shame that Calvin saw fit to keep Grace Bible in the tourney - had they invited a solid fourth team it well could have been the D3 tournament of the year. (unless of course Grace Bible has gotten much better quickly)

Hey Hopefan, do you also consider it a shame that Hope saw fit to invite Grace Bible to the Devette tournament?  Purdue North Central and Mount Vernon Nazarene round out that tournament.  If Hope had invited 3 other D3 teams maybe they could have had the D3 tournament of the year. 

The Sentinel tournament is more of the same with Aquinas, Trinity International, and Marygrove.

[hopefan]

AlMac  -  I've cried about Hope's nonconference schedule for 30 years and counting.   My point was as a general D3 fan, which i am as compared to my past close ties to Hope - I love to see competition among top notch schools - I was only expressing my disappointment as a D3 fan that the fourth team was not a solid D3 team.  I'd come up from St. Louis to GR to see 4 good games - it hardly seems worth it when there will only be 1 each night   (needless to say, I've NEVER travelled to see the yearly tourneys in Holland.)   

[realist]

Hopefan:  I think your point is well made.  As a D3 fan over the years I have thought that Hope has done some of it's teams a disservice by not scheduling some tougher competition in the preconference time frame.  On the other hand it is hard to argue with the nice win/loss ratio one can get with a less demanding schedule.  My bet right now is Hope comes into the MIAA schedule with a far better w/l ratio than Calvin.  I would like to see MIAA/CCIW like tournaments with each of the Ohio conferences.  I am sure costs are playing some part in how and why pre-conference games are scheduled.   From Hope's perspective it makes sense to fill the De Vos every chance you get.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Interesting discussion about schedules.  I have a slightly different take on it.  When it comes down to post season consideration, Hope has a big advantage, based on the number of in-region games they play (Hope has 4 in region games, Calvin has maybe 1, if ONU can beat Wash U)

Hope's pre-conference schedule

Date	Opponent	Affiliation	In-Region
11/23/2007	Cornerstone	NAIA	n
11/24/2007	Aquinas	NAIA	n
11/30/2007	Wheaton	DIII	Y
12/1/2007	Carthage	DIII	Y
12/7/2007	Marygrove	NAIA	n
12/8/2007	Aquinas	NAIA	n
or	Trinity International	NAIA	n
12/18/2007	Roanoke	DIII	Y
12/19/2007	Elmhurst	DIII	Y
12/28/2007	Grace Bible	NCCAA	n
12/29/2007	Purdue - North Central	NAIA	n
or	Mt. Vernon Nazarene	NAIA	n

Calvin's pre-conference schedule

Date	Opponent	Affiliation	In-Region
11/16/2007	Grace Bible	NAIA	n
11/17/2007	Ohio Northern	DIII	Y
or	Wahingotn U	DIII	n
11/23/2007	Aquinas	NAIA	n
11/24/2007	Cornerstone	NAIA	n
11/30/2007	Carthage	DIII	n
12/1/2007	Wheaton	DIII	n
12/5/2007	Aquinas	NAIA	n
12/15/2007	Trinity	NAIA	n
12/28/2007	Salem St	DIII	n
12/29/2007	Keene St	DIII	n
or	Montclair St	DIII	n

[sac]

Marygrove is actually NCCAA, they may hold dual membership in NAIA but they've participated in the NCCAA post-season tournaments.

I would like to see MIAA/CCIW like tournaments with each of the Ohio conferences.  I am sure costs are playing some part in how and why pre-conference games are scheduled. 

More likely the fact the the Ohio schools have fewer non-con slots on their schedule to fill and a plethora of D3's within a reasonable driving distance.  The average 5 hour trip to Grand Rapids or Holland and vice versa doesn't help. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

I would like to see MIAA/CCIW like tournaments with each of the Ohio conferences.  I am sure costs are playing some part in how and why pre-conference games are scheduled. 

More likely the fact the the Ohio schools have fewer non-con slots on their schedule to fill and a plethora of D3's within a reasonable driving distance.  The average 5 hour trip to Grand Rapids or Holland and vice versa doesn't help. 

That's the unfortunate reality for all MIAA teams - most potential in-region opponents have many closer alternatives than relatively isolated Michigan.

But it could be much worse!  Poor Finlandia has Northland (Ashland, WI) in-region by the <200 mile rule, but their next nearest in-region opponent is Alma (445 miles, including braving the BigMac during bball season) - no wonder they average about 2-3 in-region games a year.  Or you could be University of Maine-Presque Isle - there must be at least a half dozen Canadian schools closer than any d3 opponent (how would you like to be the schedule-maker, trying to lure anyone there in January?).

[sac]

I have to correct my correction.  Marygrove is joining NAIA starting this year, they were a member of USCAA and will be again for at least this season.  So FDF has it right.

From their website:

As an NAIA member, Marygrove must first complete a year under provisional status. The Mustangs plan to maintain their USCAA membership for the time being. The next step for the Mustang Athletic Program will be to research possible conference affiliations, such as the NAIA's Wolverine-Hoosier Athletic Conference, which consists of seven in-state schools.

[KnightSlappy]

Interesting discussion about schedules.  I have a slightly different take on it.  When it comes down to post season consideration, Hope has a big advantage, based on the number of in-region games they play (Hope has 4 in region games, Calvin has maybe 1, if ONU can beat Wash U)

FDF, I think realist was more pointing to the fact that Hope has had some cupcake pre-conference schedules and would have benefited from tough out of conference play.

I take a different stance than you do.  Calvin can play tough teams and gain experience (if Wash U. beats ONU) that are OUT of region and not worry about a region loss.  Same thing for their trip to New Jersey.  With the current system in region wins help out a bunch but in region losses can kill your team.

It will be interesting to see how Calvin fares in these games.  Gone are the days of the Baby Knights.  This is not a team that would have to overachieve to get into the NCAA Tournament (yes, last years team was expected to win the conference but they were still very young).  I think a good run is expected of this team.  It is interesting to think that this is now a seasoned Calvin team with only one Senior (No, Hopefans, Caleb still is not a Senior).  I ho** Calvin can live up to pretty high expectations (at least from me) this year.

[sac]

Using Massey's ratings for schedule strength

2007--D3 only
Calvin #67
Hope  #78

2006--all of college basketball
Cavin #575
Hope #608

So you can see clearly the huge advantage Calvin has had in scheduling much tougher opponents.

Either those cupcakes are a bit more meaty than people are willing to give credit for, or Hope and Calvin are shopping at the same bakery.