MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

"Like clockwork"

Prior to Voisin, Hoogeboom etc. transferring, I believe Hope had one transfer in the previous 6 seasons and they came from a Juco.  Which doesn't count as a transfer according to some people.  Before that I can only think of Dan VanHekken, Kyle Phelps and Josh Canan.


I agree Hope's had more than usual over the last 4 seasons
(none this year), but I've followed Hope for 17 years, this is the exception not the norm.  But only Hope seems to catch flak for it.

Albion has had a number of transfers but no one says boo, Olivet, Calvin,  Adrian, Tri-State and I believe even Alma have had transfers.

[realist]

Academy:  You seem to answer your own question.  This years great Hope recruiting class all came to Hope with the 4 transfers (on the present Hope roster) known to all of them.  It is hard to argue transfers (or future potential transfers) discourage fr. to enroll when it obviously did not hurt Hope this year.    Any player considering Hope need only look at the rosters the past 4-5 years, and realize that transfers are a reality.  
I am sure most Calvin fr. realized that D. Griffin was a transfer, and logically they could assume that the potential for future transfers exisits.
Unless of course GVW or KVS have taken a "no transfer pledge"

[realist]

"Like clockwork"

Prior to Voisin, Hoogeboom etc. transferring, I believe Hope had one transfer in the previous 6 seasons and they came from a Juco.  Which doesn't count as a transfer according to some people.  Before that I can only think of Dan VanHekken, Kyle Phelps and Josh Canan.


I agree Hope's had more than usual over the last 4 seasons
(none this year), but I've followed Hope for 17 years, this is the exception not the norm.  But only Hope seems to catch flak for it.

Albion has had a number of transfers but no one says boo, Olivet, Calvin,  Adrian, Tri-State and I believe even Alma have had transfers.

Going back to the late 80's Calvin had Dan Davis former juco, and several Calvin players in the 90's also came from juco's.  I don't recall any D1  transfers in men's basketball, but Calvin did get a pg (whose name escapes me at the moment) from GVSU in the mid 90s, and it has happened in other sports.  My feeling is no big deal.  As long as you abide by the rules regarding acquiring players what difference does it make where you get them.   If Hope can interest, discouraged players from other schools,  in continuing their educations there, GREAT.

[HopeConvert]

"Like clockwork"

Prior to Voisin, Hoogeboom etc. transferring, I believe Hope had one transfer in the previous 6 seasons and they came from a Juco.  Which doesn't count as a transfer according to some people.  Before that I can only think of Dan VanHekken, Kyle Phelps and Josh Canan.


I agree Hope's had more than usual over the last 4 seasons
(none this year), but I've followed Hope for 17 years, this is the exception not the norm.  But only Hope seems to catch flak for it.

Albion has had a number of transfers but no one says boo, Olivet, Calvin,  Adrian, Tri-State and I believe even Alma have had transfers.

Going back to the late 80's Calvin had Dan Davis former juco, and several Calvin players in the 90's also came from juco's.  I don't recall any D1 or D2 transfers in men's basketball, but it has happened in other sports.  My feeling is no big deal.  As long as you abide by the rules regarding acquiring players what difference does it make where you get them.   If Hope can interest, discouraged players from other schools,  to continue their educations there, GREAT.

Realist +k for you. We seem to forget sometimes that students might transfer for reasons other than, or in addition to, playing basketball. Derek Griffin will be getting a degree from Calvin College. How is that not a good thing? MVH, DVS and others will be getting an education at Hope. No offense to Canisius, but I'd much rather my kid went to Hope than there. So if there is any 6' 10" college basketball player out there who is looking for a good education, you may want to keep Hope in mind. I'm sure our 4 freshmen wouldn't mind having a big presence in the paint, and our profs won't mind having you in the classroom.

[PicknRoll]

"like clockwork"

I would indeed start to consider it clockwork. I do not doubt that the transfers to Hope has picked up in the last 5 years, but at what point do you consider 5 years an exception vs being the norm? 5 years is a pretty long time.

Realist: I'm not so sure very many of those Hope incoming players and recruits know the transfer situation at Hope. I'm pretty sure GVW wasn't boasting about on their visit. Additionally, I don't know how many high schoolers look into rosters from the past 4-5 years (maybe they do) but I'm pretty sure on a recruiting trip to Hope they see a huge following, winning team, and blonde Dutch girls...and not wondering how many transfers they got.  On top of those reasons for being a wide eyed recruit, when GVW is telling 30+ good players in the area they will be on the varsity team their first year because they are one of THE top recruits, a few of them are bound to take the bait and sinker.

Some would argue this strategy is wrong. Others say its how you build a winning basketball team.

Personally, I just don't understand why some recruits go to Hope who aren't the top recruits of MIAA coaches. Places like K, Albion, Adrian all give time for development. And it seems like year after year you see these guys are getting cut from Hope or Calvin because its in with the new and out with the old.

[PicknRoll]

If you're transfering for education why wouldn't you transfer to K?

[oldknight]

The inabililty to understand the "transfer" issue is a continuing source of humor and amazement for me. So in the interest of (re)educating posters on what really constitutes a transfer, please consider the class Remedial Transfer Issues 101 to now be in session.

When a person who has completed his education at an educational institution like MCC (ala' Derek Griffin) and he then attends Calvin to complete requirements for a bachelors' degree, he hasn't really transferred. If that's a transfer then Calvin's entire team consists of transfers. Veldhouse transferred from Sioux Falls Christian High School, Mantel from Chelsea HS, Veltema from Calvin Christian HS, Tim Katt from Brookfield East HS, Engelsma from Covenant Christian HS, Dustin Smith from Hamilton HS--you can look it all up on Calvin's roster.

Come to think of it, Hope's entire team consists of transfers too. I have it on good authority that Ty Tanis transferred from Jenison HS, Steve Kratz from Ludington HS, Kelvin Carter from . . . .

Aw, never mind. Class dismissed.

[realist]

Pick:  Few things happen in a vacuum.  K. De Vries a fr. at CU this yr. played at Kal. CHS.  He was heavily recruited by Hope Calvin, CU, and K, and all other MIAA teams showed some interest in him (plus many D2 schools).  According to his family members he was very aware that Hope had transfers on the roster, and that Calvin had Mr. Griffin.  Be sure the coach at CU was quick to point out exactly what the playing time situation at either Hope or Calvin would be versus what CU could offer.  I doubt many D3 recruits are either that stupid, niave or self centered they don't look at what they will face to make a schools roster.
Even as a Calvin fan I seriously doubt that GVW tells 30 recruits they will get playing time.  He sure didn't tell K. De Vries that last yr., and he was the best fr. at the HOF classic last weekend.   Kelvin was told he would have to prove himself against stiff competition (according to my source).
Man I hate defending GVW, and Hope.  
Yes, a transfer could get an education at K as well as Hope or Calvin.

[Civic Minded]

Pick:  Few things happen in a vacuum.  K. De Vries a fr. at CU this yr. played at Kal. CHS.  He was heavily recruited by Hope Calvin, CU, and K, and all other MIAA teams showed some interest in him (plus many D2 schools).  According to his family members he was very aware that Hope had transfers on the roster, and that Calvin had Mr. Griffin.  Be sure the coach at CU was quick to point out exactly what the playing time situation at either Hope or Calvin would be versus what CU could offer.  I doubt many D3 recruits are either that stupid, niave or self centered they don't look at what they will face to make a schools roster.
Even as a Calvin fan I seriously doubt that GVW tells 30 recruits they will get playing time.  He sure didn't tell K. De Vries that last yr., and he was the best fr. at the HOF classic last weekend.   Kelvin was told he would have to prove himself against stiff competition.
Man I hate defending GVW, and Hope.  
Yes, a transfer could get an education at K as well as Hope or Calvin.

Well said, realist (even if it did cause you pain).   

Also remember, the last several years have been difficult economy-wise.  I've found that more students have been lured to institutions offering scholarship money simply because of economics (and perhaps some empty promises from those institutions).  When reality hits, they reconsider, and return to D3 schools for a myriad of good reasons. 

Should we really hold this against them or the institutions they choose to transfer too?  I don't think so.  And as others have said, transfers are at many MIAA schools.  I guess this is where thin skin really shows itself!

[PicknRoll]

Definitely no one should hold it against a college kid for transferring, usually it is in their best interest. Also, good point about the scholarship money with false promises...I do think some kids let that blind them a bit, then they realize a good education from any of these MIAA (ok most of them) with pay for itself and then some in the long run.

Realist: I agree recruits look at what they will face to a certain degree. But lets be honest...lets hypothetically say a hope team has 3/4 seniors?...how does Hope pull in 18 or so freshman (all of which desire to play college baskeball for 4 years) to fill those spots and an entire JV team?...someone is telling these kids they have a very legit chance, with this repeating every year. Don't get me wrong, this is a reason Hope is so good, they get 18 recruits and keep the cream of the crop. I do not doubt your sources, and yes 30+ may have been an exageration, but I have heard from other MIAA coaches that GVW tells a lot of kids some things that some would consider false promises.

[sac]

If you're transfering for education why wouldn't you transfer to K?

Because the chip on your shoulder you develop towards Hope and Calvin and carry for life is a great burden?    Its a joke, I kid, I kid.

"like clockwork"

I would indeed start to consider it clockwork. I do not doubt that the transfers to Hope has picked up in the last 5 years, but at what point do you consider 5 years an exception vs being the norm? 5 years is a pretty long time.

It was 3 years 2005, 2006 and 2007 that Hope took transfers.

The inabililty to understand the "transfer" issue is a continuing source of humor and amazement for me. So in the interest of (re)educating posters on what really constitutes a transfer, please consider the class Remedial Transfer Issues 101 to now be in session.

When a person who has completed his education at an educational institution like MCC (ala' Derek Griffin) and he then attends Calvin to complete requirements for a bachelors' degree, he hasn't really transferred.

A kid coming in from JUCO is exactly the same as a transfer from another 4 year program.  Neither were on the JV of the team they are transferring to the year before and are potentially preventing a JV player from a varsity spot.  Thats what the initial claim was, that a transfer is keeping a JV player from moving up to varsity.

[sac]

but I have heard from other MIAA coaches that GVW tells a lot of kids some things that some would consider false promises.

If you think thats something thats unique to Hope recruiting, you are dead wrong. Dead wrong.

[GoKnights68]

Looks like Carthage goes pretty deep.  All but 3 players received 10 or more minutes of playing time on the November 17 game.  Look pretty young, though.  Only 3 seniors.

http://www.carthage.edu/athleticspages/mens/basketball/bluffton.htm

[almcguirejr]

but I have heard from other MIAA coaches that GVW tells a lot of kids some things that some would consider false promises.

If you think thats something thats unique to Hope recruiting, you are dead wrong. Dead wrong.

The ol' "everybody else is doing it defense." 

[realist]

PnR:  I fear getting tagged for beating this dead horse.     A year ago Calvin had 15/16 nice young fr. on the JV team, and 2 on the varssity if memory serves correct.  I am sure all of them had dreams of sinking the winning 3 pt shoot, at the buzzer, to beat Hope.   
Presently only 4 So's are on Calvins roster.  Most of those other youngsters are still at Calvin working toward a degree.  Reality is most of them went to Calvin for reasons other than playing basketball.  Granted that would have been frosting on the cake, but in some respects reality bites.  They just weren't good enough to knock somone else off the roster, and few of them even tried out this fall.
Any coach is going to tell a recruit he has a chance to make the roster, but I am sure he also advises the player that it isn't going to be easy.