MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[SKOT]

When a person who has completed his education at an educational institution like MCC (ala' Derek Griffin) and he then attends Calvin to complete requirements for a bachelors' degree, he hasn't really transferred. If that's a transfer then Calvin's entire team consists of transfers. Veldhouse transferred from Sioux Falls Christian High School, Mantel from Chelsea HS, Veltema from Calvin Christian HS, Tim Katt from Brookfield East HS, Engelsma from Covenant Christian HS, Dustin Smith from Hamilton HS--you can look it all up on Calvin's roster.

Didn't Dustin Smith Transfer from Hope College?

Edit...my grammar has gone down the toilet as of late!

[sac]

The ol' "everybody else is doing it defense." 

Almost as good as the "everybody does it, but us" 

Didn't Dustin Smith Transfer from Hope College?

Yes the arena has been delayed due to a shortage of glass! 

[hopehoopfan]

I am "very close" to one of the freshman on the JV team. He came from a town a long way away from Hope and was not truly recruited. Had he grown up in a larger area he probably would have garnered more interest from colleges.  He chose Hope for reasons other than basketball, but now that he is there is very glad that he is part of the program and would like nothing more than to be part of the team for all four years. He knows he has his work cut out for him and if he doesn't stay with the team, he still will be very happy he is finishing his education at Hope.

[HopeConvert]

Any "recruit" may be superseded in subsequent recruiting classes. Anyone who has played sports knows there is always someone waiting to take your space. Whether they come from high school, a community college, or transfer from another college, that's part of the athletic endeavor. No one is guaranteed anything, and certainly no one is guaranteed playing time. You have to prove yourself constantly. What's interesting is, with the one noted exception, no one transfers out after the new people come in. That's says something, I would think.

Time to dust off the dead horse picture.

[HopeConvert]

Looks like Carthage goes pretty deep.  All but 3 players received 10 or more minutes of playing time on the November 17 game.  Look pretty young, though.  Only 3 seniors.

http://www.carthage.edu/athleticspages/mens/basketball/bluffton.htm

Not only that, look at the names. Calvin's PA announcer is going to have to take a remedial pronunciation course. Not a "van" or a "sma" in there. They'll be able to handle "Stuart" and "Walker," but after that it might get a little dicey.

[sac]

Will this do?
Its not a dead horse buts its much more pleasant.  Its Dead Horse Point, Utah. Serenity now, serenity now............

[Joel-Eric Van Bosma Brady]

Here's my take on the appropriate, albeit obvious, change in the frequency of transfers to Hope and Calvin in recent years.  In my opinion, the differing variables include:

1.)  The Zichterman Factor:  When Z signed with Cornerstone (and not Calvin or Hope) it had a dramatic effect on small college basketball recruiting in West Michigan.  Prior to his decision, the Zichterman type player would land at Calvin, Hope or a DI or DII school.   Z goes to C-stone,  they have other pieces to the puzzle, and EXPLODE on to the small college basketball scene.   Scholarship money and the opportunity to compete for national championships lure Calvin and Hope recruits to C Stone, and leave the Knights and Dutchmen looking for alternative ways to get talent.

2.)  The rising cost of tuition.  Quite frankly it is out of control.  Suddenly the reality of paying  high 20's or low 30's over 4-5 years, makes significantly less financial sense to certain players/families.  Especially when another option exists:  Go to a CC, playing ball, and reevaluating after 1 or 2 years.

3.)  West Michigan Basketball has gained some legitimacy:   More and more DI and DII school (plus C-Stone and now AQ) are willing to invest in west michigan kids.  For DI especially,  20 years ago Flint, Detroit, Lansing, and the occasional small town wonder would get offers.  I realize Vaught, Hughes, Pops Sims, Jamerson, Cole, etc played DI.   But nowadays,  DVS, MVH, Visser, Crandell, Wolters, etc. get DI one offers.  Some work out, some don't.   Elliott, Knoester, Sall, Bosma, Holstege, Winkle, Foltice, etc. (Veenstra and Honderd had D1 offers but had some weird DNA thing that landed them at Calvin)  would have received D1 offers today.  As a result (again)  the talent pool that Calvin and Hope had a hold on up to the late 80's and early 90's became scare.  The result was that both schools had to look for alternative ways to get talent (transfers).

What's amazing is that both schools have been able to maintain a high level of academic and athletic excellence if the face of some much change.

Go Hope.

[oldknight]

Didn't Dustin Smith Transfer from Hope College?

Yes! Now that's a true transfer. I'm glad not everyone was sleeping during Remedial Transfer Issues 101.   Go to the head of the class. In place of a grade, +k for SKOT.

[sac]

Albion 40 Spring Arbor 30 half............it was SAU 7 Albion 0


FINAL  Albion 75 Spring Arbor 56

Albion returns the hammering from last season, double-digit lead the whole second half.  Everything I have is telling me Albion is a very good basketball team.

With a long break coming and then what looks like an easy tournament with Madonna, Marygrove and NW Ohio.  The Brits should be 6-1 heading to the tournament at Otterbein, with ONU and OWU.  They have a real good shot at being 8-1 heading into the MIAA.

[Dutch_Man]

Albion starting off hot!?!?! Did anyone see this coming? I mean last year they were not a tough Albion team that the MIAA expected to see. I would like to see them have a better year and strengthen the MIAA a bit. Sac don't get a head of yourself though with the 8-1 before league play! Thats only 2 wins shy from equaling their win total from last year! But it does indeed sound like they have a much improved team. So good for the Brits..... the MIAA thanks them! 

[sac]

Didn't Dustin Smith Transfer from Hope College?

Yes! Now that's a true transfer. I'm glad not everyone was sleeping during Remedial Transfer Issues 101.   Go to the head of the class. In place of a grade, +k for SKOT.

From the NCAA Transfer handbook, page 9

Ask yourself these questions"

Have you ever been enrolled full time at a two- or four-year school in a regular academic term?

Have you ever reported for practice with the regular squad?

Have you ever practiced or played while you were enrolled part time?


If you answered Yes to any of these question, YOU ARE A TRANSFER.  That means you now need to learn the transfer rules if you still want to play your sport at your new NCAA school.



This applies everywhere, even Grand Rapids in the Kingdom of Calvin.........Now class may be dismissed.

[MIdoubleA]

What this board tends to forget is that in the end, when all is said and done, D3 (whether it be Hope, Calvin, or anywhere else) isn't about athletics. It's about getting an education.

Besides, without transfers what would we have to talk about? 

[GoKnights68]

What this board tends to forget is that in the end, when all is said and done, D3 (whether it be Hope, Calvin, or anywhere else) isn't about athletics. It's about getting an education.

Besides, without transfers what would we have to talk about? 

Well there's always the man with a broken big yellow hat, little kids with flags, fake banners, ect.


Speaking earlier about JV, is anyone surprised that Jeffrey Smith didn't make the Calvin team this year, who was the starting PG for the JV team last year?

[wolverinekeith]

Here's my take on the appropriate, albeit obvious, change in the frequency of transfers to Hope and Calvin in recent years.  In my opinion, the differing variables include:

1.)  The Zichterman Factor:  When Z signed with Cornerstone (and not Calvin or Hope) it had a dramatic effect on small college basketball recruiting in West Michigan.  Prior to his decision, the Zichterman type player would land at Calvin, Hope or a DI or DII school.   Z goes to C-stone,  they have other pieces to the puzzle, and EXPLODE on to the small college basketball scene.   Scholarship money and the opportunity to compete for national championships lure Calvin and Hope recruits to C Stone, and leave the Knights and Dutchmen looking for alternative ways to get talent.

2.)  The rising cost of tuition.  Quite frankly it is out of control.  Suddenly the reality of paying  high 20's or low 30's over 4-5 years, makes significantly less financial sense to certain players/families.  Especially when another option exists:  Go to a CC, playing ball, and reevaluating after 1 or 2 years.

3.)  West Michigan Basketball has gained some legitimacy:   More and more DI and DII school (plus C-Stone and now AQ) are willing to invest in west michigan kids.  For DI especially,  20 years ago Flint, Detroit, Lansing, and the occasional small town wonder would get offers.  I realize Vaught, Hughes, Pops Sims, Jamerson, Cole, etc played DI.   But nowadays,  DVS, MVH, Visser, Crandell, Wolters, etc. get DI one offers.  Some work out, some don't.   Elliott, Knoester, Sall, Bosma, Holstege, Winkle, Foltice, etc. (Veenstra and Honderd had D1 offers but had some weird DNA thing that landed them at Calvin)  would have received D1 offers today.  As a result (again)  the talent pool that Calvin and Hope had a hold on up to the late 80's and early 90's became scare.  The result was that both schools had to look for alternative ways to get talent (transfers).

What's amazing is that both schools have been able to maintain a high level of academic and athletic excellence if the face of some much change.

Go Hope.

Sometimes (all the time?) I wish NAIA Div. II and MIAA had the same rules regarding scholarships.  I really wonder if C-Stone would still be able to compete without that (huge) built-in advantage over the MIAA. 

Maybe it's the DNA and the upbringing that came along with it, but my MIAA bias says their success wouldn't be as easily attained.

(PS....can I get a +k for that MIAA bias!?!?!?  You know we all got it!!!)

[Gregory Sager]

(not to mention Calvin's 36 academic all americans since 2000 to Hope's 4).

Be careful about comparing Academic All-American numbers between schools, Realist. Academic awards such as Acad A-A and the Jostens Trophy are largely a measure of whether or not the school's SID is devoting his or her time to promoting such things by filling out paperwork for national organizations. Some SIDs are zealous about this sort of thing, some aren't. The Acad A-As don't necessarily measure academic achievement in toto amongst schools within a particular conference, division, etc.