MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Gregory Sager]

No offense to Canisius, but I'd much rather my kid went to Hope than there.

Didn't you say that you're Catholic, HopeConvert? Why in the world would you want to bring the wrath of the Jesuits down upon your neck with a statement like that?

[Gregory Sager]

The inabililty to understand the "transfer" issue is a continuing source of humor and amazement for me. So in the interest of (re)educating posters on what really constitutes a transfer, please consider the class Remedial Transfer Issues 101 to now be in session.

When a person who has completed his education at an educational institution like MCC (ala' Derek Griffin) and he then attends Calvin to complete requirements for a bachelors' degree, he hasn't really transferred. If that's a transfer then Calvin's entire team consists of transfers. Veldhouse transferred from Sioux Falls Christian High School, Mantel from Chelsea HS, Veltema from Calvin Christian HS, Tim Katt from Brookfield East HS, Engelsma from Covenant Christian HS, Dustin Smith from Hamilton HS--you can look it all up on Calvin's roster.

Come to think of it, Hope's entire team consists of transfers too. I have it on good authority that Ty Tanis transferred from Jenison HS, Steve Kratz from Ludington HS, Kelvin Carter from . . . .

Aw, never mind. Class dismissed.

That's one way to look at it, Oldknight. However, a juco student develops a transcript that is an academic factor with regard to class credits accepted at the new school. In other words, since the two-year college parallels the first two years of a four-year college, and the coursework and grades produced at that two-year college are subsumed into those of the four-year college with regard to that particular student, it is definitely a transfer in the academic sense. You can't transfer class credits and a g.p.a. from a high school to a four-year college, but you definitely can transfer them from a two-year college to a four-year college.

That's why juco students tend to be handled by the transfer specialists within a four-year college, if in fact that college has such a division of labor within its admissions department.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

No offense to Canisius, but I'd much rather my kid went to Hope than there.

Didn't you say that you're Catholic, HopeConvert? Why in the world would you want to bring the wrath of the Jesuits down upon your neck with a statement like that?

That's really true HopeConvert. Those Jesuits are serious about their education. I mean if we really want to start debating the educational merits the Jesuits may have to jump in forcefully   Just Saying.

[HopeConvert]

No offense to Canisius, but I'd much rather my kid went to Hope than there.

Didn't you say that you're Catholic, HopeConvert? Why in the world would you want to bring the wrath of the Jesuits down upon your neck with a statement like that?

That's really true HopeConvert. Those Jesuits are serious about their education. I mean if we really want to start debating the educational merits the Jesuits may have to jump in forcefully   Just Saying.

Fools rush in...

I hadn't thought through the whole Jesuit angle. It was an instinctive judgment, not a well-considered one. I know better than to mess with the Jesuits. For that reason, I am subtracting karma from myself.

I guess that makes me the board equivalent of a flagellant. My Calvin friends have long suspected I'm a tortured soul, so such mortification ought not to surprise anyone.

Please, everyone, no flagellants jokes.

[HopeConvert]

Alas, I can't self-flagellate. I'll have to put upon someone else to perform the rite. What man hath love and heart enough for this?

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

[sac]

Self flagellation would be a Hope fan sticking around for a Calvin game wouldn't it? 

or a Calvin fan showing up early for a Hope game?  Pretty sure these count.

[devossed]

Self flagellation would be a Hope fan sticking around for a Calvin game wouldn't it? 

or a Calvin fan showing up early for a Hope game?  Pretty sure these count.

...could this also cover a dutch soul choosing hunt's catsup (vs. the contractually preferred variety) for their pig-in-a-blanket?

...or even a knightie actually showing up in the stands for a non-hope game???

(at least the negative karmas from one side should even out with the positives from the other, right?)

[hopehoopfan]

If anyone is going to the Hope JV game tonight against Glen Oak, please give a summary of the boy's efforts as I very sadly will be unable to make it down to the game      I do remember reading somewhere that a blogger was anxious to watch them play.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I'm planning on attending, so I'll try to post some details after the game

[hopehoopfan]

Thanks, I will look forward to it. It is tough after seeing every game from age-group rec ball through high school to not be able to see the games during the week as it is just too far to go and get back.

[realist]

(not to mention Calvin's 36 academic all americans since 2000 to Hope's 4).

Be careful about comparing Academic All-American numbers between schools, Realist. Academic awards such as Acad A-A and the Jostens Trophy are largely a measure of whether or not the school's SID is devoting his or her time to promoting such things by filling out paperwork for national organizations. Some SIDs are zealous about this sort of thing, some aren't. The Acad A-As don't necessarily measure academic achievement in toto amongst schools within a particular conference, division, etc.

DUH    Sorry I went too fast for you, or didn't you bother to read the last sentence?   I will paste it in for your benefit:
"Guess it just depends what you want to use as criteria to determine bragging rights.     Big fish in a small pond or larger fish in a larger pond "

Isn't it the SID's job to do exactly what you mention above (promote the school's teams, and athletes)?   If Hope's SID isn't trying to get Hope athletes that qualify academically etc. on those teams  it surprises me. (Probably most Hope fans as well).

[realist]

JEVBB:  You raise some interesting points in your post above.  However, as one following the MIAA, Calvin/Hope for over 40 years it should be pointed out that losing athletes to schools D1/2 or NAIA is not new.  It has gone on over 40 years.   The one scholarship granting school you failed to mention has been the emergence of GVSU which was the new kid on the block in the 60's. 
It is very interesting that D3 has grown rapidly the last several years in terms of membership, and NAIA has been losing.  CU gives 6 full time scholarship equivalents a year, and  CU indicates the cost of attending this year is around $24,000.   6 scholarships at 24k each totals  $144,000;  my question is does CU make this much money off basketball or is this cost pushed off onto the other students?  Doing the math would indicate it costs the average undergrad student at CU $76/yr. to support the jocks.

[section7]

but I have heard from other MIAA coaches that GVW tells a lot of kids some things that some would consider false promises.

If you think thats something thats unique to Hope recruiting, you are dead wrong. Dead wrong.

Having been recruited by GVW many moons ago.  I can only give my experience with him.  However, he provided me with a statement that still sticks with me today.

"When you make your choice on what school to attend, Hope or another, make that decision with basketball as part of it, but more importantly, envision you are at that school and on your 2nd day there you lose the ability to play basketball.  Will you still be at that school 4 years later?  If you can answer yes to that, then that is the right place for you, whether that is Hope or somewhere else."

I have always remembered that statement/advice and respect it to this day.

[PicknRoll]

Thats great advice, I wonder if the % of kids is high or low in d3 sports that would actually follow it, I hope its high.

I'm not sure what the endowment is like at Cornerstone, but I would imagine that can be used as the source for the scholarship money. Read a great article in the WSJ today about Williams and Amherst boosting the money they are taking from their endowments each year to give out grants, rather than loans, since tuition is becoming so much...gese like they need any more incentives to give potential recruits!

[Joel-Eric Van Bosma Brady]

To Realist:

I agree that the GVSU/NAIA situation has been around for awhile...I would argue that the NAIA part has intensified in frequency as CStone (and now Aquinas) have developed.   You make a good point with GVSU. 

To a couple of other posters:

I don't think CStone and AQ would ever have gotten to the point they are without the unbelievable advantage provided by athletic scholarships.

Athletics never come before academics.  However, athletics provide a SIGNIFICANT academic experience.