MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[hope1]

i will be at the jv game tonight

[PicknRoll]

JEVBB - "athletics never come before academics"...were you talking only about d3? Or did you mean athletics should never come before academics?

[sac]

Kim Elders took over at Cornerstone in 1993, I believe it was soon after that Grand Rapids Baptist became Cornerstone University.  When it became a University a higher emphasis was put on athletics that could give the University publicity.  This included basketball.  It wasn't long after that Cornerstone started landing alot of the kids Hope and Calvin took for granted as being theirs.

I don't remember Grand Rapids Baptist being much of a threat as a basketball program untill becoming Cornerstone and joining the WHAC.



One last thing I picked up thats forgotten.  The Division II ranks in Michigan have actually grown in the last 20 years.  Hillsdale, Saginaw Valley and Northwood all dropped NAIA for NCAA II, which is more scholarship money on the market.


I think we've hit on a number of good points, all plausible.

[academy1]

Although the MIAA schools can't give athletic scholarships at all, the sticker shock of $30,000-$40,000 a year at a Hope, K, Albion, ect. will scare kids away from the get go.  I know these schools do have very good incentive packages for good grades, extracurricular activities, leadership, ect. that makes the cost of attending much less than the sticker tuition price.  Even though the schools can't match a full-ride of an NAIA institution, a high school senior and his parents probably won't consider the extra thousand dollars in the short-term even though there might be better long-term benefits from attending an MIAA school. 

That being said, there are kids out there that are probably still living in the world where basketball is king and yes even at the non-D1 level will consider a basketball program over academics any day of the week.  Unfortunate, but true.  A lof of other states don't have to compete with the amount of NAIAs and DIIs that Michigan has (see Wisconsin) but hey I think we are still doing okay in comparison.  With Michigan's economy, it doesn't look like things will change in the short-term.  The MIAAs are going to have to rely on kids and parents that do think about the future, can afford a few more bucks each year, and have some type of affinity or affiliation to the schools.  Not knocking all of the NAIAs because I know some are good schools, but kids are continue to go where the money is.

[AndersDY]

Hello again board, I'm not sure what I've missed during the off-season thus far. As I hadn't made it to a game yet, I wasn't thinking to check back in with D3Hoops. Tomorrow I may actually make my way over to Calvin to catch the CCIW games though. I hadn't picked up tickets ahead of time, is there generally issue with getting tickets for this weekend at the door? I wasn't certain if I was going to go, should I have tried to secure seats ahead of time? Also, I assume it's one total ticket for both games, not a clear-the-gym situation?

[northb]

Andersy: You should be able to get tickets at the door.

A tidbit regarding the transfer issue:  Alma and Calvin participate in this website, CU, AQ and the rest of the MIAA do not. 

http://www.michigantransfernetwork.org/AcceptInst.asp

So, if you are currently playing for another Michigan school, but would like to bump out an expectant underclassman, at least 2 MIAA schools are making it easier for you.  An article in the GR Press indicated that AQ might join this website, as well.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Hope JV game tonight versus Glenn Oaks CC.

74 Hope
79 Gelnn Oaks CC

Hope lead most of the game, by as much as 12 early in the second half, and then GOCC's athleticism took over.  Hope battled back, and GOCC hit a 3 with 8 seconds left to break a 74 all tie.  Hope threw the ball away and foul shots by GOCC completed the scoring.

Brian Wiese had 20 with 8 boards and 5 blocks

Kevin Tonn 12, Kevin Warren 11, Kurtis Carroll 10, Aaron Boersma 9, and Daniel Cox 8.

[Gregory Sager]

Fools rush in...

I hadn't thought through the whole Jesuit angle. It was an instinctive judgment, not a well-considered one. I know better than to mess with the Jesuits. For that reason, I am subtracting karma from myself.

I guess that makes me the board equivalent of a flagellant. My Calvin friends have long suspected I'm a tortured soul, so such mortification ought not to surprise anyone.

Please, everyone, no flagellants jokes.

Well, there goes all of my Monty Python and the Holy Grail material.

[Gregory Sager]

(not to mention Calvin's 36 academic all americans since 2000 to Hope's 4).

Be careful about comparing Academic All-American numbers between schools, Realist. Academic awards such as Acad A-A and the Jostens Trophy are largely a measure of whether or not the school's SID is devoting his or her time to promoting such things by filling out paperwork for national organizations. Some SIDs are zealous about this sort of thing, some aren't. The Acad A-As don't necessarily measure academic achievement in toto amongst schools within a particular conference, division, etc.

DUH    Sorry I went too fast for you, or didn't you bother to read the last sentence?   I will paste it in for your benefit:
"Guess it just depends what you want to use as criteria to determine bragging rights.     Big fish in a small pond or larger fish in a larger pond "

Isn't it the SID's job to do exactly what you mention above (promote the school's teams, and athletes)?   If Hope's SID isn't trying to get Hope athletes that qualify academically etc. on those teams  it surprises me. (Probably most Hope fans as well).

I read your post just fine, Realist. I was simply addressing your point about Academic All-Americans, nothing else.

You'd be surprised at all of the duties that are required of an SID. Filling out paperwork for this or that organization that may or may not pay any attention to what you're doing isn't necessarily a priority. I know some very good SIDs who are not all that fired up about participating in what they see as a labor-intensive, low-reward rigamarole with regard to Academic All-Americans.

Speaking as someone who has spent far too much time viewing the athletics websites of D3 schools, I can say without hesitation that Tom Renner does an absolutely outstanding job at Hope. I would strongly advise anyone from inferring that Hope's comparative dearth of Academic All-Americans is somehow a blot upon his resume.

[sac]

Last season I sat through the Saturday matchups in Kenosha which are this years Friday matchups.

Hope/Wheaton last year was a terrifficly competitive game, Hope led all but the last 2 and half minutes, but the lead never reached more than 9 and hovered around 5 points most of the night.

http://www.miaa.org/mbb/stats/0607/1202hoct.htm

For Hope that one came down to the final 5 minutes where the offense disappeared and they managed just two FG's, and most of the attempts became long range 3's.  The game was winnable and it was really a pretty fluky play in the end that gave Wheaton the final margin of victory.  I think this loss probably fit in the top 3 of most frustrating L's from last season.

Hope held Kent Raymond to zero first half points, but he exploded (literally) with 17 in the second including 2 long 3's right out of halftime.  This year I don't think Hope has anyone who can handle Raymond, of equal concern would be Andy Wiele who owned the paint vs Hope with 25 points and 14 bds.  It might be an all hands on deck kind of defense for Hope in the paint.  I expect alot of Wheaton FT's.

I don't think there's much difference from last year to this year for either team, I'm expecting just as competitive a game as last, but a little more back and forth.  I can see either squad pulling out the W.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Calvin/Carthage is intrigueing based on what Carthage did to Calvin last season and that was basically run the Knights out of the gym like I'd never seen before.  Its probably one of the few times Calvin didn't look ready to play, and emotionless.  Carthage ran out to a 17-3 lead before Calvin knew what hit them.

http://www.miaa.org/mbb/stats/0607/1202cact.htm

Carthage used almost a 4 gaurd offense with 4 on the perimeter and one in the middle.  They just moved the ball around untill they found Calvin off-balance on D and shot or drove.  Schlemm for Carthage owned the interior and his first block of the game left Calvin intimidated and they  frequently settled for poor shots in the first half after that.

While the second half was even in the scorebook, Carthage absolutely let the air out of the ball.  I'd never seen a team play such an up tempo first half only to basically kill the game in the second by running the shot clock.  The first half tempo for Carthage made the shot clock an after thought.  It was strange.

I never thought Calvin was as bad as they showed that night, but I do think Carthage is bringing the same kind of small quick team across the lake this season.  While it should be a W, the memories of last December's thrashing make me wonder how Calvin will handle the Red Men.


I think its fair to make Hope and Calvin the favorites given the way this series has gone with both conferences winning the home games, but to be honest its as even on paper as last season and the CCIW went 4-0.

[Gregory Sager]

I don't think there's much difference from last year to this year for either team, I'm expecting just as competitive a game as last, but a little more back and forth.  I can see either squad pulling out the W.

Wheaton is different, but because most of the players are the same the difference is subtle. The Wheaties are stronger offensively than last season (because Andy Wiele has bulked up and is playing more aggressively around the basket, and also because Ben Panner is starting to come into his own), but weaker defensively (because interior stopper Michael Fiddler's replacement, Jacob Carwell, isn't nearly as good at that end of the floor).

I never thought Calvin was as bad as they showed that night, but I do think Carthage is bringing the same kind of small quick team across the lake this season.  While it should be a W, the memories of last December's thrashing make me wonder how Calvin will handle the Red Men.

By pounding the ball inside, that's how. You can't really overthink this sort of thing. The fact of the matter is that Carthage is badly undersized, and the one true big man on the roster (Neb Franciskovic) is no match for John Mantel. If I'm KVS, I tell my guards that on Friday night every halfcourt possession has to feature a pass into the low post, even if Mantel doesn't have good position and has to pass it right back out again.

Carthage does have some weapons that it lacked last season. Freshman sensation Steve Djurickovic has started off with a bang: 24 and 5, 23 and 5, and 24 and 6 performances in the first three games of his college career. Right now he's a slasher more than anything, so it'll be interesting to see how Calvin and Hope defend him. Also, undersized (he's listed at 6'4, 200, and I think that both numbers are probably generous) and underachieving forward Billy Shemerdiak finally seems to be realizing his considerable potential. He had modestly successful games against Hope (14 and 5) and Calvin (13 and 2) in Kenosha last season, but from that point on he vanished. Aside from a 21-point performance in an early-January win over Northland, Shemerdiak didn't score more than 7 points in a game, and only once (8 boards vs. Marietta) did he grab more than four rebounds. However, this season he appears to be coming into his own. He's averaging 15.0 ppg and 9.3 rpg.

Aside from those two players and familiar face Trey Bowens (22.0 ppg), however, it doesn't appear that anyone else from Carthage is looking to score much. In addition to not having much of a post-up game, the Red Men are also missing their best shooter, Sean Fendley (injured foot). Watch out for freshman guard Logan Derrick, however -- he was a stud in high school who can be absolutely electric with the ball in his hands.

[hopehoopfan]

Thanks FDF for the JV game summary! 

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Really excited for some high quality games tonight!

[calalum]

Greg, thanks for the up date on Wheaton and Carthage.  Should both be good games tonight and tomorrow afternoon. 

[oldknight]

Hope held Kent Raymond to zero first half points, but he exploded (literally) with 17 in the second

Actually sac, I think you mean figuratively. If Raymond literally exploded this means you had a mess on your hands last year and Calvin won't have much to worry about from Raymond Saturday--not unless all the king's horses and all the king's men put Kent back together again.