MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[AndersDY]

DCHopeNut -

Your recounting of the second half officiating sounds very accurate, but remember that on his way to picking up the T, Klein had actually just been called for traveling, rather than the mauling that caused him to be dragged across the floor. That call seemed to be the worst of the night, though not the only worth looking at. 

[Flying Dutch Fan]

One comment on the officiating - it isn't often that you see one official make a call, and the other(s) visibly react negatively, but it happened last night.  There seemed to be a plethora (just for you Sac) of calls made by officials who were completely out of position to be making the call.  In several of these occurrences, you could see the official who was in position react (dropped head, rolling of the eyes).  In my mind, no doubt that these guys wouldn't rate each other very high on their performance last night.  I do think they were at least consistent (bad calls went both ways)

Heard this from Tom Renner on the radio this morning:

Hope vs Albion basketball halftime score:
Hope 18
Albion 16
total points - 34

Hope vs Albion football halftime score:
Hope 21
Albion 14
total points - 35

YIKES!

[ChicagoHopeNut]

"but either the Calvin or Hope women would be up by 10 on either of the men's teams right now as well."

An exaggeration of course! Just highlighting the poor play on both sides in the first half. Of course the women's teams would not be up.


Ok, here is my first half coaching gripe that applies to both Turner and GVW equally. As the first half progressed into sloppy play highlighted by countless unnecessary turnovers neither coach seemed to do a thing from the bench. They were not yelling out directions at the players, they were not talking to the guys on the bench a lot before sending them on the floor, and most importantly NO time outs to discuss.

Albion called its first timeout at about the 10:37 mark and it appeared the Albion PG just called it because he was frustrated with the sequence, no visible signal from the Albion bench.

GVW and Hope called its first time out at 1:37!!! After countless trips where Hope dribbled the ball of their feet, threw bad passes (and loafed back like Tanis did, which at least GVW noticed enough to sit him the rest of the half once he got around to taking him out). It really appeared if the lay-off affected the coaches as much or more than the players. I was just astounded at the lack of any meaningful coaching in the first half. No adjustments to the Hope offense that was clearly not creating open shots. Nothing! Yes, GVW has forgotten more about basketball than I'll ever know but that does not make up for last night's performance! First half was bad all around!!!

[hoopdreams]

my take on the game might be a bit different than others, being a former college athlete and current coach and all, but I find it amusing to read so many negative posts (especially from Hope fans-DCnut job take note) Hope won a huge game last night against one of the best teams they'll see until tourney time....if they make it.

1.You will not find 2 better defensive teams at the D3 level (did Albion remind anyone else of Elmhurst-strong,physical man-man D?)

2.  Any athlete will tell you that they hate long layoffs,which both teams endured.  I think the pre-season schedule was pitiful for the most part from a competitors perspective.I anticipated shooting percentages to be down.

3.  There was not a lot of "poor" shots taken by either team, they simply didn't drop.

4.  It was a huge opening game to the conference schedule, a lot was at stake because neither team wanted to start 0-1.  This anxiety was obvious.

5.  Yes, there were a lot of turnovers, but I guessing that if all conference game boxscores could be posted, the TO #'s would be high across the board.  Once again-long layoff, great D.

Bottom line Hope won and that is all that matters.  66-49, 95-55, or 32-31 a win is a win. Hope nut you must be on the the "fans" that sits and bitches the whole time and ruins the evening for all of us that simply wants to enjoy watching kids playing their hearts out for their program. 

[Flying Dutch Fan]

As I posted earlier, IMHO the poor scoring in the first half was due to great D and just poor shooting (due to the layoff).  As far as turnovers go, that was really pretty average.  Both teams did have more turnovers than baskets in the first half, but that was more of an indication of the bad shooting, rather than excessive turnovers.

For comparison purposes, here are the turnovers per team from last night:

18 Tri-State
16 Calvin
15 Albion
15 Olivet
12 Hope
7 Adrian
7 Alma
5 Kalamazoo

[arena]

Moreover, the officials other calls in the game started at questionable and later moved to downright wrong. Not even close a couple times. And twice when he had the best angle and position for balls knocked out of bounds he had to look to the other officials to ask who the ball had gone out on. He just wasn't in the game.

I am not sure where the MIAA finds its refs but after years and years of this you'd think someone, anyone would ask that the MIAA find a new head of officiating in an attempt to solve this problem.

Many Calvin fans were saying the same thing after a very questionable call against Veldhouse a couple years ago.   

[Civic Minded]

Hoopdreams, thanks for saying exactly what I was thinking.  Great summary of the game, and um, other points.   

DC, there's a lot of "time out coaching" that takes place on the bench during play rather than during a time out.  That's part of the luxury of a deep bench.  Railing against GVW is a little silly at this point, IMHO, as is your seeming distaste for Tanis.  But hey, glad you got to see a game in person.

And for the record, Klein's T was an accident, actually.  That's okay; it seemed to help in the long run. 

This game was the nailbiter we all anticipated.  Maybe not exactly the way we anticipated, but it was exciting, adreniline-pumping basketball, nonetheless.  Is it Saturday yet?   

[sac]

There were two halves of basketball last night where one team shot less than 20%

Albion's first half of 5-27  for 18.5%..........can you imagine if they didn't make those 3 big 3's

and Calvin's second half of 4-27 for 14.8%

There were a total of 16 halves of basketball played by individual teams (look at that an oxymoron) and 9 halves of below 40% shooting and 5 below 30%.

All together the league shot 42-146 for 28.8% from 3.  Yuck!


For the second time in 10 months Hope held a team to just 6 2-point baskets, I never thought I'd see that again, but here we are.  Last March WashU scored 6 2-point baskets in defeating Hope in Wisconsin.  At least this time Hope was rewarded for their defensive efforts.

[sac]

And for the record, Klein's T was an accident, actually.  That's okay; it seemed to help in the long run. 

A pretty funny accident really, when you think about it.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

DC, there's a lot of "time out coaching" that takes place on the bench during play rather than during a time out.  That's part of the luxury of a deep bench.  Railing against GVW is a little silly at this point, IMHO, as is your seeming distaste for Tanis.  But hey, glad you got to see a game in person.

I actually think Tanis is a great player and had a very solid second half. I think he has an amazing future at Hope and is a great addition to the team. However, after watching a terrible half of basketball I was frustrated by his effort after a bad pass. He made a pass from the top of the key directed towards DVS or Wolfe that was off and stolen. As the Albion player raced down the court DVS or Wolfe gave chase. Tanis clearly stood there a half second, resigned to his bad pass before jogging down the court. If he had turned and sprinted down court immediately he could have forced the Albion player into a much harder lay-up. Shortly thereafter, Tanis was taken out. When the rest of the freshmen four and Kratz reentered the game in the first half Tanis stayed on the bench. I am pretty sure GVW had the same unpleasant reaction to Tanis' effort on that particular play that I did. And honestly, if the rest of the first half had not been so poorly played I may not have even noticed that particular sequence but it stood out to me and I would appreciate a bit more effort in that situation.

[gohope]

I still like Tom Renner's observation which CM shared with us earler:

"Heard this from Tom Renner on the radio this morning:

Hope vs Albion basketball halftime score:
Hope 18
Albion 16
total points - 34

Hope vs Albion football halftime score:
Hope 21
Albion 14
total points - 35"


Plus Karma to TR if only he was an official d3hoopster!!!   

[realist]

Not much to add on Calvin's game.   It was good to get a win to start the MIAA.
Most surprising stat to me is Benford held to 6 points.  I doubt we will see that very often, and with him not scoring Tri-State just isn't the same.
Good win for Hope.  Turner doesn't get to excited, and generally just wants to get to the last 3-4 minutes with the score close.  
I think we will see more typical MIAA games, and scores on Sat.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Let's see where else to respond.

First, I think last night's win was a great and important win. Hope stuck it out in the first half and came back with a very solid second half effort, particularly after Klein's T.
But just because Hope won the game doesn't mean fans, the team, or the coaches should or have to be satisfied with the way the game was played. An ugly win is still a win but it rarely bodes well for future close games. There are plenty of great things about this Hope team but that doesn't mean there isn't room to improve.

Second, the ever unpopular GVW discussion.
Caveats: I had GVW as a professor, I think he is a great person. Second, I am sure he has forgotten more about basketball than I and most everyone else on this board will ever know.

Nevertheless, I do not understand the theory that GVW is infallible that seems to permeate this board. Any time someone questions a decision GVW makes the person is lambasted as a "nut job" and their karma takes a serious knock. I realize this is D3 and Hope has a particularly supportive fan base. In NO way am I suggesting Hope alum or students should rise up to push out GVW as coach (like the guy at U Washington who offered $100K if Ty Willingham is fired). He has had a great history and will and should leave on his own terms. But that doesn't mean its inappropriate for fans to wonder about some of the decisions that are and have been made by the coaching staff over the years. Moreover, I assure you I am not alone on some of my questions. I may be the only one willing to express them on this board but I have had conversations with many other alum who follow the team over the years that have left games scratching their heads just like me.

[sac]

On that note:

Saturday Dr. VanWieren will be looking for win #600, a truely great milestone.  I've had the pleasure witnessing a good chunk of those.

So if your inclined, come on out to rural Eaton County, have a little lunch or dinner at The Gavel in Charlotte and help celebrate another important MIAA victory.  I'd love to see a big Hope contingent at Upton Gymnasium.  I think the Comets might be  a better test than some think.

[scottiedawg]

Yes it was ugly, but this Hope team is becoming exceptionally defensive minded and battle tested, and is showing the ability to win close games against tough opponents.  IMHO, the Elmhurst loss was HUGE in the development of this Hope team.  They just beat a team, that at the moment, is clearly the second best team in the conference.  

p.s. I am planning to attend the Olivet game.  There will be at least some Dew Crew representation!