MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Gregory Sager]

Tri-State has been in every game but two........Davenport which makes no sense and Defiance which makes some sense, but the 38 point difference makes no sense.

That depends upon your definition of "in the game", I suppose. North Park led Tri-State by double digits for the last six and a half minutes of the game, and for a good chunk of that final interval the lead was either 15 or 16 points. It certainly didn't feel as though the Thunder were in the game, for those of us watching it, as NPU basically took the air out of the ball for the last four minutes.

[oldknight]

i also think as a sophmore the game at calvin was one of the first to shown on local tv

Actually not, unless you're older than I think you are. Channel 8 broadcast some games in the 60's with Warren Reynolds doing the announcing. I know Hope's double overtime win at the Civic in '64 was a TV game and I don't think that was the first one. For Hope fans with long memories that game should be on your Top 10 list. For Calvin fans, that one is a lot like Hope's "game that should never be named."

[AlwaysHope]

I am, of course, horribly biased in this by the fact that I was there, and with a seriously limited number of games to draw from I'm not sure how much my opinion matters anyway, but if I was to pick the best Calvin/Hope Matchup that I can think of, I would pick the game in Fieldhouse during Calvin's 99-2000 championship season.

Time's running out, Winkle has the ball. Foltice and Karsten are both wide open but Winkle decides to take the shot with some Hope guy (I never learned their names, sorry, they were just the enemy...  ) all over him, makes the ugliest trey I have ever seen in my life to send the game into overtime, and then we ride Veenstra for the win in overtime.

I will probably see that shot in my minds eye for the rest of my life. It was beyond ugly, the Hope player might as well have been sharing his jersey, it should never have gone in... but go in it did.

Beautiful.

You're right, it was an incredible game.  Chad Carlson was the Hope defender who was all over Winkle, who threw in an off-balance trey from the left side of the court, to tie the game.

The play started with about eight seconds, and after Winkle's shot Hope still had a few seconds left.  Keven Britnell, I believe, took the final Hope shot from just under half court, and the ball bounced off the rim, not missing by much.  Calvin then dominated in overtime.

One other little known fact.  Had Winkle missed and there was not further scoring, Hope would have won by three.  The all-time series would have been tied, and, believe it or not, the points scored by both team in the all-time series would have also been equal.  It was the last game played in the 20th Century, so Hope and Calvin would have ended the 20th Century tied in wins and points scored!

Winkle sure messed up an incredible P.R. story for the MIAA!  I hold him personally accountable.  Now we have to wait another 91 years to see if we can end the century tied!

[Stinger]

I am, of course, horribly biased in this by the fact that I was there, and with a seriously limited number of games to draw from I'm not sure how much my opinion matters anyway, but if I was to pick the best Calvin/Hope Matchup that I can think of, I would pick the game in Fieldhouse during Calvin's 99-2000 championship season.

Time's running out, Winkle has the ball. Foltice and Karsten are both wide open but Winkle decides to take the shot with some Hope guy (I never learned their names, sorry, they were just the enemy...  ) all over him, makes the ugliest trey I have ever seen in my life to send the game into overtime, and then we ride Veenstra for the win in overtime.

I will probably see that shot in my minds eye for the rest of my life. It was beyond ugly, the Hope player might as well have been sharing his jersey, it should never have gone in... but go in it did.

Beautiful.

You're right, it was an incredible game.  Chad Carlson was the Hope defender who was all over Winkle, who threw in an off-balance trey from the left side of the court, to tie the game.

The play started with about eight seconds, and after Winkle's shot Hope still had a few seconds left.  Keven Britnell, I believe, took the final Hope shot from just under half court, and the ball bounced off the rim, not missing by much.  Calvin then dominated in overtime.

One other little known fact.  Had Winkle missed and there was not further scoring, Hope would have won by three.  The all-time series would have been tied, and, believe it or not, the points scored by both team in the all-time series would have also been equal.  It was the last game played in the 20th Century, so Hope and Calvin would have ended the 20th Century tied in wins and points scored!

Winkle sure messed up an incredible P.R. story for the MIAA!  I hold him personally accountable.  Now we have to wait another 91 years to see if we can end the century tied!

Brintnell was a Sr. in 1996.

[AlwaysHope]

I am, of course, horribly biased in this by the fact that I was there, and with a seriously limited number of games to draw from I'm not sure how much my opinion matters anyway, but if I was to pick the best Calvin/Hope Matchup that I can think of, I would pick the game in Fieldhouse during Calvin's 99-2000 championship season.

Time's running out, Winkle has the ball. Foltice and Karsten are both wide open but Winkle decides to take the shot with some Hope guy (I never learned their names, sorry, they were just the enemy...  ) all over him, makes the ugliest trey I have ever seen in my life to send the game into overtime, and then we ride Veenstra for the win in overtime.

I will probably see that shot in my minds eye for the rest of my life. It was beyond ugly, the Hope player might as well have been sharing his jersey, it should never have gone in... but go in it did.

Beautiful.

You're right, it was an incredible game.  Chad Carlson was the Hope defender who was all over Winkle, who threw in an off-balance trey from the left side of the court, to tie the game.

The play started with about eight seconds, and after Winkle's shot Hope still had a few seconds left.  Keven Britnell, I believe, took the final Hope shot from just under half court, and the ball bounced off the rim, not missing by much.  Calvin then dominated in overtime.

One other little known fact.  Had Winkle missed and there was not further scoring, Hope would have won by three.  The all-time series would have been tied, and, believe it or not, the points scored by both team in the all-time series would have also been equal.  It was the last game played in the 20th Century, so Hope and Calvin would have ended the 20th Century tied in wins and points scored!

Winkle sure messed up an incredible P.R. story for the MIAA!  I hold him personally accountable.  Now we have to wait another 91 years to see if we can end the century tied!

Brintnell was a Sr. in 1996.

I was not sure it was Brintnell, and it obviously was not.  But I do remember the Hope shot clanking off the rim as regulation time expired, whoever shot it.

One other comment.  I stated it was the last game of the 20th Century.  It was the last game in the year 2000, which most believe is the last year of the 20th Century, not 1999. 

[realist]

Like every other Calvin poster any W over Hope is a favorite.     Some had a bit more suspense, and perhaps drama, but whats not to like about beating Hope.
Strangely all the Hope posters have games that Hope won as favorites.
Over the years, starting with Mr Brady, Hope has had a player or two that would have looked better in maroon and gold.

[dumezrules]

One of the Eric Elliot teams lost at Calvin when Steve Honderd hit a 40' 3 pointer at the buzzer.....none of us there will forget the incredible up to down feeling after that went in....

Why does it seem that all the big endings have happened Calvins way?  Veldhouses shot a couple of years ago, Griffin last year....why has it been that Hope seems to lose in such a fashion so often in this rivalry?  or maybe it just seems that way to me.:

[dumezrules]

Like every other Calvin poster any W over Hope is a favorite.     Some had a bit more suspense, and perhaps drama, but whats not to like about beating Hope.
Strangely all the Hope posters have games that Hope won as favorites.
Over the years, starting with Mr Brady, Hope has had a player or two that would have looked better in maroon and gold.

I am a HOPE fan....Calvin has had a few that would have helped Hope also....Mantel comes to mind right now! 

[Civic Minded]

One of the Eric Elliot teams lost at Calvin when Steve Honderd hit a 40' 3 pointer at the buzzer.....none of us there will forget the incredible up to down feeling after that went in....

Why does it seem that all the big endings have happened Calvins way?  Veldhouses shot a couple of years ago, Griffin last year....why has it been that Hope seems to lose in such a fashion so often in this rivalry?  or maybe it just seems that way to me.:

Oh, I don't know about that...the game at the Civic a couple of years ago with "the flop heard round the world" ended pretty nicely close to the buzzer!     (Sorry, Greg!)   

[hoopdreams]

my gut feeling right now is that one of the teams will win by a nice margin, although I don't know who.  Something will be off, whether it's one teams shooting, uncharacteristic foul trouble, hopefully not an injury but something.  Based on the boxscores I've seen, neither team has had major foul issues.

I am curious to see the final steal/turnover stats.  i know Hope as a team averages more but doesn't seem to be getting as many lately (could be wrong) and Dustin Smith has had a couple of games with 5-7 himself.  Having Mantel/Veldhouse or DVS/VanderHeide in foul trouble could make things very interesting.  

[sac]

One of the Eric Elliot teams lost at Calvin when Steve Honderd hit a 40' 3 pointer at the buzzer.....none of us there will forget the incredible up to down feeling after that went in....

Todd Hennink, not Honderd.  Wasn't 40 feet, but around 27'.  It was the same year Wade Gugino's bucket at the buzzer in Holland was waved off (rightly) that would have won the game.  Probably the closest two regular season games the teams have played, certainly most dramatic.  This was 1990.

Why does it seem that all the big endings have happened Calvins way?  Veldhouses shot a couple of years ago, Griffin last year....why has it been that Hope seems to lose in such a fashion so often in this rivalry?  or maybe it just seems that way to me.:

The list of last second buzzer beaters by Hope to beat Calvin follows:

The play started with about eight seconds, and after Winkle's shot Hope still had a few seconds left.  Keven Britnell, I believe, took the final Hope shot from just under half court, and the ball bounced off the rim, not missing by much.  Calvin then dominated in overtime.

I believe your thinking of Mark Bray.

[oldknight]

One of the Eric Elliot teams lost at Calvin when Steve Honderd hit a 40' 3 pointer at the buzzer.....none of us there will forget the incredible up to down feeling after that went in....

Sac is correct. I don't remember Honderd ever doing that. I believe you are thinking of Todd Hennink's fadeaway bomb from the quarter court hash mark at the Fieldhouse--that one was spectacular and brought the house down.

Oh, I don't know about that...the game at the Civic a couple of years ago with "the flop heard round the world" ended pretty nicely close to the buzzer!     (Sorry, Greg!)  

Outstanding! +k for acknowleging Immink's theatrical major. 

[realist]

GoV:  At this point if Calvin sticks with the 3 guard offense IMHO it actually helps Hope in that the match ups are better.  If Calvin has any potential advantage it is going taller, and more physical inside.  If Mantel plays up to his potential it will give Hope some trouble, especially if Veltema or Engelsma has a break out game at the same time.  Calvin gives up to many rebounds in the 3 gaurd offense, and Hope has the defenders to shut down either Veldhouse or Griffen on the perimeter.  I still think the team controlling the boards wins the game, and dominating the boards equals a larger point spread.
p.s. Welcome to the board, and the same to ChiHope.

[sac]

What time does the JV game start, and when will the doors open?

[Civic Minded]

Oh, I don't know about that...the game at the Civic a couple of years ago with "the flop heard round the world" ended pretty nicely close to the buzzer!     (Sorry, Greg!)  

Outstanding! +k for acknowleging Immink's theatrical major. 

Oh dear...please allow me to clarify!     We Hope fans know that that was a ligitimate foul call.  I refer to it as a flop because so many of my Calvin friends (oxymoron? LOL) believe that to be the case.  I apologize to Greg for bringing it up again, but I couldn't resist.  (And yes, for those of you who accuse me of believing everything I see, I try to, even when you tell me otherwise!)