MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[AlwaysHope]

1) I have watched the last 10 seconds of THE GAME three times on the local TV news tonight, with Veldhouse putting up two three attempts.  On the first shot from near the top of the key he was definitely bumped by Van Solkema after leaving his feet while shooting.  Anyone else notice it?

It probably was not called because it wasn't too much body contact, and when watching the game in person it seemed like Veldhouse was trying to draw the foul.  Plus refs hate to make that call at the end of the game.  All I could think of was the call at the Hope-Elmhurst game in December when KVS was whistled for fouling a three point shooter at the buzzer, giving Elmhurst the win by three points after the player made all three free throws.

The second Veldhouse shot was more of a desperation shot, and hit the front of the rim.  I believe he had two defenders on him.

2) Someone else may have noted that the 4 Hope senior starters accounted for all but two of the team's total points.  Junior starter Reimink accounted for the other two.  Hope GVW has a great recruiting year!

3) Some posters to this board have recently criticized GVW for overusing his starters.  They may have a point, but tonight he played them more than ever and came up with a "W" in a difficult environment.  So maybe we also need to give him credit.  The reserves played very tenatively when they briefly got in the game.  As I recall, Tanis got called for walking, Osborne and Bowser got a charge, Carter had two turnovers and missed a short jumper, and Kratz had a "double dribble."  So the reserves had 6 turnovers in their 18 minutes of playing time, while the five starters only had 5.  Also, only Carter took one shot; it was like the rest of the reserves were afraid to shoot.  While these players should be much improved in the future, they sure seemed to be overwhelmed in this game.

I also looked closely at the starters, and they did not seem to be winded, probably because of the TV timeouts that has already been mentioned.

4) Klein has been getting his share of steals this season, but only got one this game.  However, it came at the 1:04 mark of the second half, with Calvin down by one.  Instead of Calvin shooting for the lead, Klein steals the ball from Mantel on a pass from Zoerhof, passes to VanderHeide who in turn passes to Wolfe for the layup and the three point Hope lead.  It was the last points of the game, and ultimately forced Calvin to go for three at the buzzer.

[HopeConvert]

I was complaining on the phone to my wife after the game about the lack of bench minutes, and she mentioned the TV timeouts to me - and she doesn't read sac before the games. Go figure.

Great environment in DC today at the satellite party. Some people in the other room asked me at halftime to fill them in on Hope and the rivalry. They were very impressed with the game. While I'd prefer to be at the game live, it was an awful lot of fun watching the game this way, even if tniem and I had to occasionally put a muzzle on DCHN. The one upside of a satellite party is being able to drink refreshing beverages during the game. That, and it's good to see some familiar faces again, and meet some new ones.

Classic rivalry game. I hope to have my voice back sometime tomorrow.

[oldknight]

Could someone please explain to me why all the hype about DVS?  I have seen him play a few times now and I am not impressed, granted I've only see him play against Calvin.  Also what's with the trash talking after he finally makes his first bucket of the game in the second period?

He plays on emotion.  For the most part that emotion got the best of him but once he got a little going for himself he lets you know about it. 

Um, let's see.  How about we operate from some facts here, instead of our own preconceived (and incorrect) notions?  As Derek was lining up for the shot, Knightmares students were swearing at him and calling him names that were, well, let's say unsportsmanlike (and definitely inappropriate). 

Thanks for clearing this up for me.  I change my mind, Derek is awesome!

Here's where knowing the local historical background might be helpful to readers of this board not familiar with it. I saw DVS play many times in high school and he was a very good player on an outstanding high school team at South Christian. One of his teammates was Kirk Walters, now a post player at the University of Arizona, and another was a future Mr. Basketball, David Kool, now a star at Western Michigan. DVS and his team played in the Class B state finals his last two years, finishing runners-up as a junior and winning it all as a senior. Over the course of his high school career Derek developed a reputation among local fans as a somewhat brazen, trash talking, shoot from the hip (and lip) 2 guard who irritated mightily fans of opposing schools. He wasn't afraid to express his opinion to students watching their team play (and typically lose) to DVS. The fact that he seemed to have rabbit ears for any courtside comment thrown his way during games only made DVS a bigger target, as did the growing reputation of his father who would sit courtside to "protect" his son from the miscreants who dared to criticize Derek's play and demonstrative behavior. Whether DVS deserved any of the criticism is a matter of opinion of course, but there is no question that he was more an object of disdain than was any of his teammates. This stands in stark contrast to Kool whose on court demeanor (and play) only enhanced the legendary status and respect that he acquired in high school.

Fast forward four or five years and DVS, after a brief detour through Eastern Michigan University, is again playing before many of the same fans who came to know and love him  when they all were in high school. Obviously Calvin draws a substantial portion of its student body from west Michigan, they remember his reputation, and its a big game. I have no idea what was being said to him by fans as he passed by the Calvin student section but some was probably good natured ribbing (some Calvin students no doubt were his high school classmate), other comments a bit more offensive. But since we should operate from the facts, unless you sat right in the middle of the Calvin student section, there no way anyone could possibly know if students were swearing at him. DVS had his first half struggles and when he finally buried a three from the corner directly in front of the Calvin student section he reacted--right on cue--exactly as his reputation would lead one to expect if you knew him from high school. He turned to the Calvin student section with what I assume was some trash talking of his own. He's a good player at Hope but not as effective as he was in high school when he played the 2 guard spot. He's not quite big enough to play that spot in college and isn't as natural from the point.

[oldknight]

1) I have watched the last 10 seconds of THE GAME three times on the local TV news tonight, with Veldhouse putting up two three attempts.  On the first shot from near the top of the key he was definitely bumped by Van Solkema after leaving his feet while shooting.  Anyone else notice it?

I did see that too but I have no problem with the non-call. It wasn't that bad of a bump and the ref properly kept his whistle in his mouth.

[sac]

Could someone please explain to me why all the hype about DVS?  I have seen him play a few times now and I am not impressed, granted I've only see him play against Calvin.  Also what's with the trash talking after he finally makes his first bucket of the game in the second period?

He plays on emotion.  For the most part that emotion got the best of him but once he got a little going for himself he lets you know about it. 

Um, let's see.  How about we operate from some facts here, instead of our own preconceived (and incorrect) notions?  As Derek was lining up for the shot, Knightmares students were swearing at him and calling him names that were, well, let's say unsportsmanlike (and definitely inappropriate). 

Thanks for clearing this up for me.  I change my mind, Derek is awesome!

Here's where knowing the local historical background might be helpful to readers of this board not familiar with it. I saw DVS play many times in high school and he was a very good player on an outstanding high school team at South Christian. One of his teammates was Kirk Walters, now a post player at the University of Arizona, and another was a future Mr. Basketball, David Kool, now a star at Western Michigan. DVS and his team played in the Class B state finals his last two years, finishing runners-up as a junior and winning it all as a senior. Over the course of his high school career Derek developed a reputation among local fans as a somewhat brazen, trash talking, shoot from the hip (and lip) 2 guard who irritated mightily fans of opposing schools. He wasn't afraid to express his opinion to students watching their team play (and typically lose) to DVS. The fact that he seemed to have rabbit ears for any courtside comment thrown his way during games only made DVS a bigger target, as did the growing reputation of his father who would sit courtside to "protect" his son from the miscreants who dared to criticize Derek's play and demonstrative behavior. Whether DVS deserved any of the criticism is a matter of opinion of course, but there is no question that he was more an object of disdain than was any of his teammates. This stands in stark contrast to Kool whose on court demeanor (and play) only enhanced the legendary status and respect that he acquired in high school.

Fast forward four or five years and DVS, after a brief detour through Eastern Michigan University, is again playing before many of the same fans who came to know and love him  when they all were in high school. Obviously Calvin draws a substantial portion of its student body from west Michigan, they remember his reputation, and its a big game. I have no idea what was being said to him by fans as he passed by the Calvin student section but some was probably good natured ribbing (some Calvin students no doubt were his high school classmate), other comments a bit more offensive. But since we should operate from the facts, unless you sat right in the middle of the Calvin student section, there no way anyone could possibly know if students were swearing at him. DVS had his first half struggles and when he finally buried a three from the corner directly in front of the Calvin student section he reacted--right on cue--exactly as his reputation would lead one to expect if you knew him from high school. He turned to the Calvin student section with what I assume was some trash talking of his own. He's a good player at Hope but not as effective as he was in high school when he played the 2 guard spot. He's not quite big enough to play that spot in college and isn't as natural from the point.

I will add.........

Most peoples opinion of him are based solely on the color of the uniform he currently wears.  Were it a different color, those opinions would be more favorable. People see what they want to see.

If people spent as much time watching him play, as they do wishing him to fail, they'd see what a good D3 player he is and has become.

[GoKnights68]

Well it seems some Knight in fans are somewhat happy with the way Calvin played today(obviously not with the scoreboard).  I wish I could take it as well as you guys.  I agree that Calvin came out to play today, but it may take me to get over this one, so I'll probably see you all on here not till Wednesday night....

I heard that Veldhouse was under the weather during the game and showed it on a near by drinking fountain at a timeout?  Well if that's the case, then I question all those shots he took towards the end, including the the last 2 shots in the final possession.  I guess Calvin's offense wasn't getting many open looks towards the end, so maybe he was their best option, since their offense questionably seems to rely on each player creating his own shot on a one on one match-up

I believe their was 5 minutes left, with Calvin up by 6, I was just praying that Calvin could hold this lead for a while, but Hope answered with back to back 3-pointers which killed the Knights.  Then with Hope up by 1,  Calvin turns it over for a Hope fast-break lay-up,  Calvin gets the ball back and misses a 3 foot shot.

From the Calvin side, I was probably most impressed with Katt's defensive effort in the second half, and Smith's all-around play in the game.  Mantel played pretty good, but it'd been nice if he forced a few more turnovers or blocks.

It seems DVS is one of the most talked about players on this board over the years.  Bringing up his name can often get this board into a long somewhat heated discussion of him.  Civic-Minded, you have really good ears by the way!

Well despite most of us, including me, thinking that Calvin will be a tough team to beat in the MIAA tourney, Calvin still has another half of the MIAA regular season to finish up, so I hope they can finish that up strongly.

That's all for my rant about the game.  See you here again, Wednesday.  Peace.

[gohope]

Yeeeeaaahhhhh!!! Clap, clap, clap!  Yeaaaahhhhhh!!  Whistle!  Clap, Clap, clap!!!  Those were just a few of the sounds heard in the San Antonio International Airport following the end of THE GAME, Hope vs. Calvin! A number of us were at an RCA conference in that grand city and due to timing, travel to the airport, etc., when we finally got to the airport, someone quickly plugged in their laptop so that we could catch the last few minutes of the game online. A GREAT outcome for those of us who bleed the blue and orange, but man it sure is hard to "watch" the game through live-stats. It was also fun to get a phone message from someone who was at the game and hear about some of the highlights - such as the comment that many have already stated, that MVH was just spectacular!! I also spoke with someone who was watching the game on TV. Their patience level isn't the greatest and felt that Hope decided that defense wasn't needed in the first half - is that accurate? The TV watcher also concurred with the earlier poster stating that it would be nice, just once, for GVSU to get commonpotaters who would be a little more impartial instead of so glaringly one-sided.  So, since I was still geeked up from a long travel day, and getting home in the early hours of today, I HAD to read the almost 10 pages from the past few days that I missed.  CONGRATULATONS Dutchmen!!!

p.s.  SAC, CM and FDF - did you take care of my friend at the game and make sure that "certain" people didn't do stuff that they really shouldn't do so that my friend was safe?   

[hopehoopfan]

Holy Cow!   I have just attended my first game in this storied rivalry and from what I can gather, it was one of the typical "classic" duals! I had heard about it in years past having attended another MIAA school, but now knowing a Frosh in the program, I will be attending them for years to come and beyond!   
I had read prior to the game(thanks to all you posters for your valuable insights into the Hope team/program) about how GVW would have to use his bench creatively to give his starters/experienced players the rest they would need. I am sure  KVS was liking his chances when he saw Hope riding the stallions most of the 2nd half, while he was subbing liberally, hoping to have the energy advantage in the closing minutes. Alot has been said about the TV timeouts, but even with that, that amount of play still will sap the explosiveness available to a player in the waning minutes of the game. Fortunately, they had enough, Just enough.  I wonder if Wolfe, after blowing out his shoe, will return the ones he borrowed to the JV player?? They fit him quite well in the second half
Speaking of JV, tough loss for the Dutch! Not getting into the Bonus the entire second half was the difference in a game with lots of contact. 6 FT's made to 16 for the Knights was the nail in the coffin.  It has to be reassuring to know that 4 of their Freshman brethren were playing up and that they will soon be together for a VERY strong Hope team for the next few years.

[Stinger]

A couple observations from what I saw on CSTV yesterday:

1. MVH was solid, but Calvin's interior defense was putrid. Did MVH score outside of 5 feet? Also, nice staredown over Smith after he knocked him to the floor in the first half.  Kind of bush. 

2. I though Mantel would be further along than this. The kid shows flashes, but he also looks timid and afraid in there at times.  Confidence problems?

3. I don't know who the two that did the broadcast night (color guy was the Holland Christian coach, maybe?), but it was pretty brutal.   If you were a neutral observer watching that game, it was tough to draw any enthusiasm from the broadcast.   The color call was monotone, and not very insightful.   You would think for "the game" you would want a little better producion.

4. Lastly, was this bring back the '90's at the Fieldhouse? Both Griffin and Osburn were sporting hi top fades.   My wife and I were wondering if Kid N' Play were doing the halftime show.

[Stinger]

I wasn't able to attend the Hornet game, but did follow the livestats as best I could (thanks OC_SID).  The Hornets spotted Olivet 14 points over the first 6 minutes of the game. Yes, 14-0.   However, K outscored Olivet 33-21 over the next 14 minutes to get within 2.    Henry and Mat with great games for Kzoo, Brandon Way with 27  for Olivet. 

The Hornets need to regroup and figure out how they are going to defend "old man" Young and the rest of the Adrian team.  Young can create his shot from anywhere on the court.  I wish this wasn't a wednesday night road game.

[dumezrules]

Response to some earlier posts but being a relative newcomer...I dont know how to cut and paste all of them like some vets of this board do.

Many people have mentioned Hopes lack of depth and the fact that some players (Reimink especially) "didnt do much"

Any Hope player that caught the ball in the post was doubled and almost every time rotated it out for a good shot. or many times the receiver of the kickout rotated it to another for a good shot..... 

Griffin had 2 (not many shots either....)  points in the 2nd half...defended by??  yep, Reimink.

Great clock management by GVW in the 2nd half calling timeouts just before the 16:00 (16:03)  mark and the 12:00 (12:03)  mark.  I have to think that the coaching staff planned to use those and the  TV timeouts coming soon as a little extra rest for the starters. 

Calvin's lack of depth was painfully obvious....Mantel, Griffin, Veldhouse, Smith once in a while....then who?  A whole lot of guys who try hard but cant score or create for themselves  They resorted to posting up Veldhouse and Griffin to get buckets?

Hope just didn't have to go to their bench.  Just because you play alot of kids doesn't mean your team has depth.

Hope starters= 5 turnovers.......pretty solid in a game of this magnitude....kudos to Calvin too....only 11 for the game!  (or maybe poor defense was on exhibit...)

[KnightSlappy]

I heard that Veldhouse was under the weather during the game and showed it on a near by drinking fountain at a timeout?  Well if that's the case, then I question all those shots he took towards the end, including the the last 2 shots in the final possession.  I guess Calvin's offense wasn't getting many open looks towards the end, so maybe he was their best option, since their offense questionably seems to rely on each player creating his own shot on a one on one match-up

After the first substitutions of the game Caleb ran off the court toward the drinking fountain and appeared to get sick for several minutes.  His shot never seemed the same after that and he even shot a couple air balls.  Even so, I don't mind Caleb taking the last shot against Hope.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

While I'd prefer to be at the game live, it was an awful lot of fun watching the game this way, even if tniem and I had to occasionally put a muzzle on DCHN.

Wow, just throw me under the bus!  As I recall I was nothing but the image of a calm, neutral observer. 

A lot of talk understandably about all the minutes Hope's starts played. I sort of have two thoughts on that.

First, as mentioned the tv timeouts game the players more rest then they typically get and Hope won. I am happy with whatever works.

Second, I am slightly concerned that the bench players did not get more of a chance in this game. They almost certainly will be relied on later in the year, whether against Calvin at DeVos when there won't be tv timeouts, or another tight, close game. Fortunately, they have played a lot of minutes in other games and I think they are ready when called upon.

[HopeConvert]

A couple observations from what I saw on CSTV yesterday:

1. MVH was solid, but Calvin's interior defense was putrid. Did MVH score outside of 5 feet? Also, nice staredown over Smith after he knocked him to the floor in the first half.  Kind of bush. 

The key, of course, is getting yourself into that position. Not everyone can do that. I don't think Calvin's interior defense was "putrid" - they just couldn't match-up with Marcus.

As to the game, giving up 44 points in the first half is not going to get it done. Hope made Calvin work more for their shots in the second half, and held them to 32 - a nice improvement. Calvin had too many open lanes to the hoop, as did Adrian last Saturday. This is something that will have to be corrected.

To my recollection, Veldhouse took only one drive and pull-up jumper, and didn't get the clear look at the end he did two years ago (what a flashback we were all having). I couldn't believe he came up with the rebound there. Good grief.

Someone mentioned Calvin will be tough in the MIAA tournament, and I expect that to be the case in no small part because it will have to be. I can't see the Knights having any shot at a Pool C bid. I thought Dustin Smith really had a nice game for Calvin. They're still a plenty scary team to have to face.

[sac]

Player of the week selection could be interesting

Brandon McClary, Olivet----20 pts, 6 rbs vs Tri-State; 20 pts, 10 rbs vs Kzoo;  for the week 40 pts, 16 rbs on 16 of 34 shooting.

Tony Benford, Tri-State-----27 pts, 9-23 shooting vs Olivet, 31 pts; 31 pts,  9-26 shooting vs Albion;  for the week 58 pts, 18-49 shooting.

Marcus Vanderheide, Hope----17 pts, 3 rbs, 7-9 shooting vs Alma;  30 pts, 13 rbs, 14-18 shooting vs Calvin;  for the week 47 pts, 16 rbs, 21-27 shooting.

----------------------------------------
First time I'll break out the +/- this year

+1 for any road win
-1 for any home loss

Hope +3
Albion +2
Calvin +1
Tri-State +1
Adrian -1
Kzoo -1
Olivet -2
Alma -3

Thus far home teams are just 13-11 in conference play, only Hope and Albion are unbeaten on the home wood.

Hope has a 2 game lead in the standings, but an affective 1 game lead when takeing remaining home court games into account.  Next Saturdays Hope/Albion game becomes very big for both teams.

Calvin at +1, has some very difficult road games coming and probably needs help in the standings.  Losing at home twice in conference play does not usually result in an MIAA title.  Winning @ Hope and @ Albion have become a must for the Knights.

------------------------

Four years into their MIAA membership and the Tri-State Thunder have bought the defense wins MIAA games mantra.

SCORING DEFENSE
# Team                  G   Pts Avg/G
-------------------------------------
1.Tri-State...........  6   354  59.0
2.Hope................  6   381  63.5
3.Calvin..............  6   404  67.3
4.Albion..............  6   409  68.2

FIELD GOAL PCT DEFENSE
# Team                  G     FG   FGA   Pct
--------------------------------------------
1.Tri-State...........  6    133   344  .387
2.Hope................  6    138   344  .401
3.Olivet..............  6    159   380  .418
4.Calvin..............  6    151   359  .421

I don't think thats something any of us would have predicted at the start of the season or even after non-conference play wrapped up.  It will be interesting if they can keep that up.  @ Hope Wed, host Calvin Saturday.  Big week for the Thunder after already dropping a home game to Albion yesterday.