MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Erm Schmigget]

Not to be overlooked as a reason for the Hope fans to celebrate on the floor was the fact that their team had just survived a nearly mirror image to the finish of the game at Calvin 2 years ago.  Also, I don't think we've mentioned that a big part of rushing the floor is to congratulate your team.

And I appologize if my rant was over the top, but I can't help but think that we need to allow these kids to be kids.  This rivalry is a pretty special thing - and win or lose, I'm always awed by the fact that after this game, there are always Hope & Calvin folks (players, parents, students, fans) talking with one another.  You see more fans from one team congratulating the other teams players after this game then any other you'll see.  

I see no need to apologize.  Your rant was nothing like the one I almost posted. 

[Hopester]

One thing I feel is key to this topic, is the closeness of the game. From the opening inbounds pass of the half to the final buzzer: energy, adrenaline, and pure emotion were being pent up in the back and forth style game. Finally when the buzzer sounded it had to go somewhere. In my view, better safely on the floor, rather than tightly packed in the bleachers. It could have been fairly dangerous up there.

Because of this, I believe had Hope won by 20 or so, there really wouldn't have been this "storming of the court.

[HopeConvert]

Not to be overlooked as a reason for the Hope fans to celebrate on the floor was the fact that their team had just survived a nearly mirror image to the finish of the game at Calvin 2 years ago.  Also, I don't think we've mentioned that a big part of rushing the floor is to congratulate your team.

And I appologize if my rant was over the top, but I can't help but think that we need to allow these kids to be kids.  This rivalry is a pretty special thing - and win or lose, I'm always awed by the fact that after this game, there are always Hope & Calvin folks (players, parents, students, fans) talking with one another.  You see more fans from one team congratulating the other teams players after this game then any other you'll see. 

I see no need to apologize.  Your rant was nothing like the one I amlost posted. 

More's the pity.

Part of the whole idea of college is that we attempt to turn kids into mature adults. This is a college setting, and they represent the college. The question is not whether they should be allowed to spontaneously express themselves, the question in this as all things is what is the virtuous and prudent thing to do. Believe me, "we should allow these kids to be kids" is not part of the mission of the college.

The question of whether it was safer to celebrate on the floor is a fair one. I'd be less troubled by it if it didn't include taunting the Calvin section, which I am told did in fact occur, and is more likely to occur during spontaneous releasing of "energy, adrenaline, and pure emotion." Generally speaking, when such release is occurring, it is up to cooler heads to prevail. Surely it wouldn't be impossible to habituate our expressions of joy and emotion into constructive ways. There was no shortage of energy and enthusiasm at the DC party (apples and oranges, perhaps) but its expression was within the confines of reason.

FDF - I think your description of what is great about this rivalry is exactly right, and is part of what makes it special. Deep down, we wish one another well. I'd like to see such conviviality sustained - particularly in the context of a game that matters precisely because it doesn't.

[dothedew]

I guess it's a good thing Hope won this game and we are all talking about this...instead of Hope coming up short at the end of another Hope/Calvin finish.
I think we need Stinger to step in and end the argument and tell us how Olivet celebrated their win over the Hornets.
I guess we always need something to talk about on here.
How about listing top 5 in order...predictions and where Hope will fall.
Take off the blue/orange glasses and predict.
I say
1. Wash U  (I do love that they lost @Calvin)
2. Amherst
3 Hope
4. Mass-Dartmouth
5. Rochester

[veragrace]

Because of this, I believe had Hope won by 20 or so, there really wouldn't have been this "storming of the court.

I disagree...anytime Hope beats Calvin there will be a celebration on the court.  It's all part of the deal.

[dothedew]

NOT LOOKING AHEAD...please folks...I'm not.
JUST ASKING
How will it work if the Hope women and men finish at the top of their Regions and hosting?
Has the rules changed about both being allowed to host...etc?
I know the women's final four is at Hope this year.
Just want to know what would happen.
Sac, any help would be appreciated?

[Hopester]

One thing that we should clarify here is the word taunt. To some it might be a good natured ribbing (which is the case here) or out of control "I am better than you" statement. The taunting really didn't go to much further than the "This is our house chants" and the showing off of Hope colors.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

NOT LOOKING AHEAD...please folks...I'm not.
JUST ASKING
How will it work if the Hope women and men finish at the top of their Regions and hosting?
Has the rules changed about both being allowed to host...etc?
I know the women's final four is at Hope this year.
Just want to know what would happen.
Sac, any help would be appreciated?

I don't know this for a fact and I'd be real interested to hear from some authority, sac? Pat?, etc., but I fear that if the women finish first in region and in a position where you'd normally expect them to host the early rounds that the fact the Final Four will be at Hope may hurt them. Moreover, DePauw who is widely respected only has one regional loss right now so it may only take one Hope trip to put DePauw as an early round host.

Second, wow, its amazing what sort of random topics can create such a huge response.

[Civic Minded]

Because of this, I believe had Hope won by 20 or so, there really wouldn't have been this "storming of the court.

I disagree...anytime Hope beats Calvin there will be a celebration on the court.  It's all part of the deal.

And I would be * disappointed if there weren't.  And it doesn't have a * thing to do with Calvin's logo.    And it makes me * sad to think that the purpose of the college is to beat the joyous expression out of life.      Sigh. 

(Insert expletive of choice where the asterisks are.)

Why is there always something/someone ready to suck the life out of an exciting day?

[Civic Minded]

NOT LOOKING AHEAD...please folks...I'm not.
JUST ASKING
How will it work if the Hope women and men finish at the top of their Regions and hosting?
Has the rules changed about both being allowed to host...etc?
I know the women's final four is at Hope this year.
Just want to know what would happen.
Sac, any help would be appreciated?

I don't know this for a fact and I'd be real interested to hear from some authority, sac? Pat?, etc., but I fear that if the women finish first in region and in a position where you'd normally expect them to host the early rounds that the fact the Final Four will be at Hope may hurt them. Moreover, DePauw who is widely respected only has one regional loss right now so it may only take one Hope trip to put DePauw as an early round host.

Second, wow, its amazing what sort of random topics can create such a huge response.

We were discussing this scenario this weekend.  I believe if both are in, and in a position where they could both host, that it is the women's turn to have to go on the road.

[dothedew]

It would be a shame if the women had to go to Depauw. Two years ago I went to the men's game in Wittenberg on Friday (the loss....grrrrrrrr) and then got in the car and drove to GreenCastle, IN to see the women win a GREAT game in a HOSTILE environment at Depauw.
I'm sure you have all heard the "stories" from a few years ago about that "game"
oh yeah...and then DROVE all the way back to Philadelphia.
LONG/FUN weekend!

[NW Hope Fan]

I agree with HC though on the point of taunting. As I watched on TV from Portland I grimaced at the rush of fans, noticing some of them not "celebrating with the team" but rather pointing fingers and yelling directly at the Calvin students. I saw this on TV, as I'm sure many people did. This is where the celebration on the floor goes overboard.

Having been directly involved with several occasions of inappropriate behavior, both as a student and as a coach, it is understandable that emotions can get away from people. The proper thing to do is to educate... as HC states the cooler heads, ie... Ray Smith, Wes Wooley and the "leaders" of the Dew Crew, need to reel in people who get a little over the top. Hopefully this is another learning experience...

But that being said I think the "celebration" including the limited taunting was fairly innocuous.

[Stinger]

There was taunting going on the whole game between fans.  Not just at the rush.  It's part of the game.  I didn't see any birds being flipped (though an obvious F bomb by a Dew Crewer was quite obvious during a panning on the crowd).

I say BFD. 

[dothedew]

Stinger has spoken...

ps...your tag at the bottom from Austin Powers is my favorite line from that movie.

good stuff...although 50% of me didn't find it funny.

[sac]

Did I really just read a 2 1/2 page philosophical debate about should we or shouldn't we rush the court?  ............by the WINNING team.

Every Hope Calvin game thats ended with a last second win with a made or missed shot has ended with students on the floor, and good for them.  As someone who's watched Calvin fans celebrate with those kinds of wins way to many times, it warms my heart to know my last memory of Calvin's Fieldhouse may be the Dew Crew jumping up and down in celebration of a hard fought Hope victory.


I think my goal for the Hope/Calvin rivalry is to have a game like Albion/John Carroll had where both sets of fans rush the court thinking they'd won, and I wander around aimlessly wondering what the heck I just missed.