MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[OC_SID]

Two good things for historians to look up.......last time teamates had double-doubles.............late time 3 guys had double-doubles in one game.

To answer part of your question, the McClary brothers have each had a double-double in the same game three times this season.

vs. Anderson -- Brandon (14 pts, 10 reb); Michael (21 pts, 18 reb)
vs. Kalamazoo -- Brandon (20 pts, 10 reb); Michael (18 pts, 11 reb)
vs. Adrian -- Brandon (14 pts, 11 reb); Michael (10 pts, 12 reb)

[Dutch_Man]

At one point in the game I wondered how many holding calls can you make in a row! It was unbelievable. I will not blame this one on the refs but I would consider their performance pretty inconsistent today. I am not even saying they should have called a foul at the end because I honestly didnt think it was one. Albion played great defense and came up with big points and big stops at the right time. Albion deserved this one.

One more note to this though.... Did any of you other fans notice that the time keeper did not stop the clock until right when the foul happened. The foul happened at just about 6 seconds left and then I looked up again and the clock was 4 seconds. Now once again I do not think this would have altered the game but the scores table defiantly missed it.  Alright enough venting from me.... It is just hard seeing the league tighten up this close with so many games left.  ...... who is nervous..... not ME 

[sac]

Two good things for historians to look up.......last time teamates had double-doubles.............late time 3 guys had double-doubles in one game.

To answer part of your question, the McClary brothers have each had a double-double in the same game three times this season.

vs. Anderson -- Brandon (14 pts, 10 reb); Michael (21 pts, 18 reb)
vs. Kalamazoo -- Brandon (20 pts, 10 reb); Michael (18 pts, 11 reb)
vs. Adrian -- Brandon (14 pts, 11 reb); Michael (10 pts, 12 reb)

Well shoot, that wasn't much of a challenge was it.

[OC_SID]

Two good things for historians to look up.......last time teamates had double-doubles.............late time 3 guys had double-doubles in one game.

To answer part of your question, the McClary brothers have each had a double-double in the same game three times this season.

vs. Anderson -- Brandon (14 pts, 10 reb); Michael (21 pts, 18 reb)
vs. Kalamazoo -- Brandon (20 pts, 10 reb); Michael (18 pts, 11 reb)
vs. Adrian -- Brandon (14 pts, 11 reb); Michael (10 pts, 12 reb)

Well shoot, that wasn't much of a challenge was it.

Not much of a challenge for a SID, who has the stats at his finger tips. I use the same laptop for everything -- stats at all games, publications, Web site updating, the list goes on and on!!

[hoopdreams]

I'm a bit perplexed. After sitting through another stressful day (why do I do this?), I expected to see talk of Albion's outstanding efforts and the hope veterans not getting it done. When the starters shoot 16-50, 3-18 from behind the arc, have 7 to's in an average of 31minutes,why is the chatter about the bench? The 6 "benchers" averaged7.5 including an inexcusable 18 by osborn. 2-5 from the floor and 3 to's, none by the 4 frosh.  The starters didn't get it done today period. There weren't any big runs with the second group, nor did they get beat off the dribble repeatedly, give up uncontested 3's,miss shots in the paint or ft's.  It was obvious that some of hope's players were off, unfortunately it happens. But hope did not lose because of some unexplainable phenomenon by the bench, they weren't given a chance to succeed...or fail.  Hope lost to a good team who got to more loose balls( Wolfe on the wing?) and took advantage of more scoring ops-  Jesse in transition off the opening tip?

[sac]

I'm a bit perplexed. After sitting through another stressful day (why do I do this?), I expected to see talk of Albion's outstanding efforts and the hope veterans not getting it done. When the starters shoot 16-50, 3-18 from behind the arc, have 7 to's in an average of 31minutes,why is the chatter about the bench? The 6 "benchers" averaged7.5 including an inexcusable 18 by osborn. 2-5 from the floor and 3 to's, none by the 4 frosh.  The starters didn't get it done today period. There weren't any big runs with the second group, nor did they get beat off the dribble repeatedly, give up uncontested 3's,miss shots in the paint or ft's.  It was obvious that some of hope's players were off, unfortunately it happens. But hope did not lose because of some unexplainable phenomenon by the bench, they weren't given a chance to succeed...or fail.  Hope lost to a good team who got to more loose balls( Wolfe on the wing?) and took advantage of more scoring ops-  Jesse in transition off the opening tip?

Fair points, my post game thoughts always sound more critical than intended after losses. 

The unexplained phenomenon from me is just that Hope has always, and I do mean always had a strong productive bench.  This is the first time that I can recall having to be so reliant on the starting 5 for victories.  This Hope fan is just having a more difficult time wrapping his arms around that situation. 

[ChicagoHopeNut]

I'm a bit perplexed. After sitting through another stressful day (why do I do this?), I expected to see talk of Albion's outstanding efforts and the hope veterans not getting it done. When the starters shoot 16-50, 3-18 from behind the arc, have 7 to's in an average of 31minutes,why is the chatter about the bench? The 6 "benchers" averaged7.5 including an inexcusable 18 by osborn. 2-5 from the floor and 3 to's, none by the 4 frosh.  The starters didn't get it done today period. There weren't any big runs with the second group, nor did they get beat off the dribble repeatedly, give up uncontested 3's,miss shots in the paint or ft's.  It was obvious that some of hope's players were off, unfortunately it happens. But hope did not lose because of some unexplainable phenomenon by the bench, they weren't given a chance to succeed...or fail.  Hope lost to a good team who got to more loose balls( Wolfe on the wing?) and took advantage of more scoring ops-  Jesse in transition off the opening tip?

First, in my opinion the conversation about the game has not focused on the bench in a disproportional way.  That said while I think the starters failed to come through on Saturday the fact the bench didn't help when they were in is a problem.  First, sometimes the bench has to be relied on due to foul trouble, which is why we saw so much of Osburn today after Klein got two early fouls.  Second, as sac points out this is the first time in recent memory anyone can remember Hope being so reliant on the contribution of the starters. The bench has been more inconsistent than anytime I recall. Finally, you mention the bench didn't get a chance to fail or succeed. I think that is the other issue/question. Like many of us have mentioned before GVW tends to shorten the bench as the season progresses. And on cue that appears to be happening again this year. The question is why? No faith in the bench? Or tons of faith in the starters? I don't know. But when the team loses and gets absolutely destroyed on the boards in the first half people ask these questions.

[scottiedawg]

Can someone who was at the game answer this question for me:

Should I be impressed that Hope was able to shoot poorly from every point on the floor, have foul trouble from their starting big men, be outrebounded by 20, on the road, and still almost win the game?

OR

Should I be concerned that Albion was able to CAUSE all of these undesirable stats for Hope?

[Civic Minded]

Can someone who was at the game answer this question for me:

Should I be impressed that Hope was able to shoot poorly from every point on the floor, have foul trouble from their starting big men, be outrebounded by 20, on the road, and still almost win the game?

OR

Should I be concerned that Albion was able to CAUSE all of these undesirable stats for Hope?

In my opinion, a little of both.  Albion plays tough, tough defense, and it altered the way Hope was able to perform.  However, Hope was also having a seemingly off night of their own doing.  They missed several bunnies that they just shouldn't have missed, had free throw shooting trouble that they didn't have at the beginning of the year, and got outrebounded in the first half.  In the second half they fixed the rebounding disparity.  Foul trouble also played a part, and while the officiating was bizarre on both ends, it seemed that there was definitley a bit of a home court advantage.  (On the last shot, Wolfe had the ball in both hands, but couldn't even raise his arms to shoot because he was being held.  Such is life.)

Albion is a force to be reckoned with, and always plays very well at home.  I had a former player tell me he'd much rather play at Knollcrest than Albion -- it's just that tough.  Kudos to Albion for creating that kind of atmosphere, playing with that kind of intensity, and making it happen for themselves.  I don't think Hope would lose that game 8 times out of 10, but yesterday they did.

And in my personal opinion, I'd like to see Hope not focus on free throws this week.    I think they may be so focused on fixing the problem that it's getting in their heads.  JMHO.   

[sac]

#1, #3, #4, #6, #7, all lost this weekend, #1WashU twice.  Its just that kind of year in D3.

Can someone who was at the game answer this question for me:

Should I be impressed that Hope was able to shoot poorly from every point on the floor, have foul trouble from their starting big men, be outrebounded by 20, on the road, and still almost win the game?

OR

Should I be concerned that Albion was able to CAUSE all of these undesirable stats for Hope?

With about 6 minutes left it was 52-46 Albion and the game had all the looks of Albion running away with it on momentum.  Hope turned the last 5 minutes into their own personal comeback and nearly pulled out what would have been an amazing win.  I agree its both.  In the clarity of whatever sleep I did get, I was gratefull that Hope had a chance to steal one they had no business being close to winning.

All together Hope played a grand total of 14:40 with Klein, VanderHeide and Reimink on the floor together.  The longest single stretches with them on the floor together was 4:16 to start the game and 5:23 to start the 2nd half.  MVH came back on the floor at 12:30 and in those remaining minutes the three were together for 1:28, 2:07 and 1:26.

I frankly don't know how these guys did it.

[hoopdreams]

For as much as I try to defend the second group, there is a lot that they will need to work on in order for hope to contend next year. More on that after the season.  I mentioned in an earlier post, gvw made the decision to ride the starters. Nearly every newspaper article confirmed this, and right or wrong, they are holding to that rationale.  I have had conversations with several fans this season who havesuggested that they are almost going out their way to keep the freshmen humble and/or keep the upperclassman happy Asto not dispute chemistry.  I think its more evident with tanis because his obvious attribute is putting the ball in the hoop. There have been 4-6 times where he has scored a lot in short spurts and is taken out, granted I've seen it with dvs too. Is it to keep the focus on "team"?  I've been a casual follower of the Dutch for 30 years,the devon reeled me in completely, but it seems like hope used to be more willing to ride "the hot hand". Maybe i'm not thinking clearly. Regardless, these next few weeks just got a ton more stressful.

[hoopdreams]

sorry I didn't finish my last thought due to the pistons distracting me, exception to not riding the hot hand...Tyler and marcus last week at Calvin. Hope everyone has a great and safe week!

[Hopester]

#1, #3, #4, #6, #7, all lost this weekend, #1WashU twice.  Its just that kind of year in D3.

So how do we all think Hope will be faring in the new poll coming out, I feel that it is obvious Amherst is one and Mass Dartmouth is two, but after that I don't know. What does everybody feel on the the top 25 poll coming out this week.

Also what a game last night. No perfect season

[ChicagoHopeNut]

#1, #3, #4, #6, #7, all lost this weekend, #1WashU twice.  Its just that kind of year in D3.

So how do we all think Hope will be faring in the new poll coming out, I feel that it is obvious Amherst is one and Mass Dartmouth is two, but after that I don't know. What does everybody feel on the the top 25 poll coming out this week.

Also what a game last night. No perfect season

After a crazy week in the top 10 I think Hope will easily remain in the top 10. They may not fall much lower than 7. I am struggling with determining how things will shake out after 1 and 2 but here is a shot.

1 Amherst
2 UMD
3 UW Whitewater (That's a big jump but at least they won both games this week)
4 Rochester (I think you could argue they stick at #3 despite the Chicago loss.)
5 Brandeis
6 Augustana
7 Centre
8 Hope (Gets nod for a close loss on the road)
9 Capital (Road loss but they were blown out)
10 Wash U

Honestly, I think teams 5-9 are an absolute wash. Hope and Capital still have fewer losses than Augie and Brandeis but they get knocked below them on a "what have you done for me lately" analysis. Centre is on an 18 game win streak and has just one loss  fewer than anyone in the country except UMD but I look at Centre's schedule and I am not impressed. (Massey has their SoS at 168).

[hopehoopfan]

I can't help but begin to look ahead, way ahead to next season. With the graduation of the only dominant BIG man in MVH, who do the Dutchmen turn to down low next season? Will Reimink move there? Or Osburn? There really hasn't been anyone off the bench that has been big enough or strong enough, and there is no big/tall body on the JV either. Guimond is big, but is probably not ready to fill MVH's shoes.  Will the Snikkers kid fill that void(I am not even sure how tall he is, but he is a wide load), and having watched him play in a scrimmage pre-season, he is very good and aggressive to the basket.   Not that there isn't enough to talk about after Saturday's dissappointing loss, but in light of that loss and the need for a dominant big man, this question is in the forefront of my mind.