MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

You really think this would pull in more fans?

[NW Hope Fan]

A larger, more enthusiastic pep band would help too

AND Cheerleaders... Definitely Cheerleaders! That'll bring 'em in. 

No... I'm serious!

[AlwaysHope]

AH:  I have always been a big fan, and supporter of Floyd Brady.
IMHO he definitely is one of the top 5 all time in the MIAA, but "greatest" may need to go to Mark Veenstra.  Hard to beat 4 time MVP.  As I recall Floyd had some help as a fr. and soph., but he was "the man" his last rwo years.  I do recall a matchup of Floyd versus Bill De Horn (than a fr.) at Calvin.  De Horn still shares the MIAA rebounding record at 17 per game.  Bill could stand flat footed under the basket, and do a 2 handed reverse slam.  Not bad for a 6'4' about 225 lb forward.

Realist,

I can't say that I disagree with your above comments, because I confess that I did not see Veenstra play in person.  But I sure heard a lot about him.  That why I hedged and said that Brady "had to be one of the best if not THE best player in MIAA history."

Winning 4 MVP's is incredible.  Not to say leading Calvin to 4 MIAA Championships.  Brady got 2 MVP's and led Hope to 3 League Championships (including a co-championship).  Obviously, their teammates were also vital to this success.

In looking at the MIAA website, Veenstra still leads the MIAA in career scoring with 1,233, while Brady is second, 63 points behind with 1,170; Veenstra also has an impressive shooting percentage at .599, but Brady's was not listed.  The 6'3" Brady still leads the MIAA in career rebounds with 648, 33 more than Veenstra at 615. 

For their season highs, Brady is 2nd in the MIAA with a 1967-8 average of 31.9 PPG, with Veenstra third at 29.2 ('75-6).  During those two years Veenstra averaged 12.7 field goals per game (1st in the league) vs. Brady's 10.6 (3rd); however Brady had an unbelievable 10.6 free throws made per game (1st, and no one is close) in '67-8, while Veenstra was not listed; nobody could guard Brady, so they fouled him.

Would be interested in hearing what others (oldknight, 68knight, etc.) have to say, especially those who saw both players.  I do know Brady could do it all - score, rebound, pass, break the press, handle the ball, etc.  He was only 6'3", but played much, much, larger.  He and Veenstra did play in similiar eras - 12 MIAA games per year maximum, no tournaments or post-season, no 3 point shot, no 35 second clock, no 2 free throws with 10 fouls (wasn't everything one and one?), etc.  One was a completely dominant center, while the other had very versatile skills.  It would have been fun to see them play each other.

Obviously, stats don't reveal everything, but the above career stats are even more amazing considering they had a maximum 12 MIAA games per year back then.  I don't know if each of them played in the maxium 48 MIAA games in their careers.  However, I would like to see all their career stats, including turnovers, steals, blocks, etc.

Regarding DeHorn, I did see him play, and he also was incredible.  He tied for the all-time season high with 17.1 rebounds for '65-66; Bill Pendell of Alma also had that same number the previous year.  However, didn't he only play for Cavin one or two years?  I don't know what Brady or Veenstra had for their high year in rebounds, but I do know that Brady averaged over 14 rebounds for his college career, including non-conference games.

As pointed out in previous posts, Brady did have an advantage over Veenstra, in that he had cheerleaders!

Any comments?

[wiz]

Always Hope,

I saw all 3 (Brady, Veenstra, DeHorn) play.  Unfortunately, when we only look back to stats and don't consider the other intangibles of the game and the eras in which they played, it is easy to overlook other people and the accomplishments they made.  Brady and Veenstra were both excellent players that stood the test of time with a full and accomplished career at their respective schools.  DeHorn was an incredible talent and I watched him go toe-to-toe with Brady when Bill was only a freshman.  He held his own pretty well, but this Chicago boy had a big head and let it get in his way.  He encountered some difficulties at Calvin and left for Taylor for a year or two before returning in his senior year.  He never got the raw talent refined and so I would not put him in the same league as Brady and Veenstra.  In later years, I would put my attention to Holtstege from Hope and Honderd from Calvin, if considering the all time greats of MIAA.  I simply don't know enough about players from the other MIAA schools to make a strong case.  I do, however, remember a host of very talented players, but from teams that never seemed to get into contention.  My overall choice of best in the MIAA, from visual experience over the past 40 years would be Steve Honderd.

[oldknight]

Like wizardry I saw all three play and his assessments are right on the mark. In particular I agree that DeHorn suffers in comparison--not because of a talent deficit--but because of personal issues. I vividly recollect the exciting season finale at the Fieldhouse during his freshmen year when Calvin played (and beat) Hope to win the conference crown. I was standing on the balcony overlook in the second half (there was no balcony seating there at that time) when Big Bill got into a scuffle under that basket, taking on Hope's entire front line. I looked down and saw that it took several players from both teams to keep him from carrying out his one man search and destroy mission. The Knights broke away late from a tight game on the strength of a couple of Eddie Douma steals to win 79-72.  When DeHorn returned for his final year at Calvin, after 2 years at Taylor, he wasn't quite as dominating of a figure as he had been as a freshmen.

Several people have mentioned that Brady was 6'3". I remember him being bigger than that (6'4"--6'5" range). But no matter--he was a beast to guard and to keep off the boards.

Of those not mentioned before, I would rate John Nibert of Albion, a two-time league MVP, as worthy of some consideration. He was overshadowed his sophomore year due to the fact that this was Mark Veenstra's last at Calvin. Nibert not only led the Brits to league crowns his junior and senior years, but also to a third place finish in the D3 NCAA tounament in 1978, the first year the MIAA was elgible to send a team to post season play. Being the best player on a Final Four participant tells you something about his abilites.

[monsoon]

2 hours from Kalamazoo to Holland was a new CM record.  An average of 30mph also a record.     Pizza with friends -- priceless.

Kzoo to Chicago in 2:45; average speed... >30!

[sac]

AlwaysHope, wizardry, oldknight.......thanks for sharing thats good stuff.

[gohope]

2 hours from Kalamazoo to Holland was a new CM record.  An average of 30mph also a record.     Pizza with friends -- priceless.

Kzoo to Chicago in 2:45; average speed... >30!

Thanks for the update and glad to hear that you got home safely, even though it went slow!!  I did have to smile though, I don't think that I've ever seen a car with Illinois plates drive 30 mph on the highway!!   

I myself encountered a *new* young driver driving out in the snow for the first time last night after the game. Therefore the front of her car "met" the back of my car. Thank goodness my license plate was NOT damaged!    Actually I think that's what helped save even greater damage to my car!!  Be careful out there everyone!

Kudos to Derek VanSolkema (Hope) and Tony Bedford (Tri-State) for being named co-MIAA Players of the Week.

[sac]

Some amazing news tonight in the world of recruiting.  Hope received a "commitment" last week from a player who's recruitment was considered the most grueling and arduous in GVW's 31 years, also perhaps the most surprising.  I had heard Hope's been after the kid for about 10 years and it was an exhaustive process to convince him to attend Hope.  Anyone who ever saw the little ballboy chucking 3's in the Civic Center would know what a can't miss prospect this kid has been since age 6.  Truely a major score for the Dutchmen.

From Stephen Bell's, mlive high school blog

Meanwhile in DIII, Hope got what I think is the first commitment so far for an MIAA school, 6-3 Logan Neil from West Ottawa. Neil is a strong all-around player, an inside-outside scorer and smart defender. He's also an all-state soccer goalie, and will play both sports at Hope. This isn't the most surprising news, considering his father, Matt Neil, is a longtime Hope assistant coach, and former MIAA MVP for the Flying Dutchmen.


Might be awhile before we hear anything else, this has been such an exhaustive process the Hope staff will probably have to rest awhile.  They are glad to have this out of the way.

The rest of the blog:  Neil's "announcement is about halfway down the page.

http://blog.mlive.com/highschoolbasketball/

[Erm Schmigget]

I've really got to get over to WO's new place and see that kid play one of these days.  That is, after all, my alma mater.

And, by the way, HCG, I actually thought northb's comment was kinda funny...and pertinent.     (Isn't HCG the hormone, secreted by the placenta, that is measured by most pregnancy tests?)   

[GoKnights68]

Some amazing news tonight in the world of recruiting.  Hope received a "commitment" last week from a player who's recruitment was considered the most grueling and arduous in GVW's 31 years, also perhaps the most surprising.  I had heard Hope's been after the kid for about 10 years and it was an exhaustive process to convince him to attend Hope.  Anyone who ever saw the little ballboy chucking 3's in the Civic Center would know what a can't miss prospect this kid has been since age 6.  Truely a major score for the Dutchmen.

From Stephen Bell's, mlive high school blog

Meanwhile in DIII, Hope got what I think is the first commitment so far for an MIAA school, 6-3 Logan Neil from West Ottawa. Neil is a strong all-around player, an inside-outside scorer and smart defender. He's also an all-state soccer goalie, and will play both sports at Hope. This isn't the most surprising news, considering his father, Matt Neil, is a longtime Hope assistant coach, and former MIAA MVP for the Flying Dutchmen.


Might be awhile before we hear anything else, this has been such an exhaustive process the Hope staff will probably have to rest awhile.  They are glad to have this out of the way.

The rest of the blog:  Neil's "announcement is about halfway down the page.

http://blog.mlive.com/highschoolbasketball/

Anybody at that Calvin at Aquinas game last November remember that kid(about 8-11 years old) that could not miss at all from the 3-point line.  He must've made about 10 in a row at the least.  And he was shooting from about 4 feet behind the arc!

[sac]

Anybody at that Calvin at Aquinas game last November remember that kid(about 8-11 years old) that could not miss at all from the 3-point line.  He must've made about 10 in a row at the least.  And he was shooting from about 4 feet behind the arc!

James Telman is much older than 8 or 11. 

[scottiedawg]

What time is the MIAA championship game usually at?  3? 7?

[sac]

Congrats to Aaron Winkle, Calvin named to the D3hoops.com All-Decade team as an honorable mention.  The only MIAA player to be named to the team.


Interesting that Hope played against a few of these guys. 

Derek Reich, U of Chicago  1st Team
Merrill Brunson, UW-Platteville  2nd Team
Antoine McDanial, Carthage 2nd Team
Tim Dworak, UW-Oshkosh 3rd Team
Aaron Winkle, Calvin Honorable Mention

I didn't see Dworak, but I did see other all-decade players Mike Nogelo, Williams and Joel Kolmodin, Wheaton and Unity Christian High School.  Pretty tough list to create.

[hope1]

i think the girls game is at 3.00  and the mens at  7.30  for the miaa championship game