MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[hope1]

hope fans just have to root hard for albion  vs calvin

[Flying Dutch Fan]

One scenario:

If Hope (Heaven forbid) loses to Calvin and Calvin loses to Albion--and those 3 win their other remaining games--Hope and Albion will be tied for 1st and Calvin will be in 3rd.  The tie breaker will go to Albion based on the 2 team's records against the 3rd place team.  Albion hosts Friday and Saturday.

One other scenario would be for Calvin to beat Albion and Hope leaving a tie between Hope and Calvin.........then we get to dust off the magic Semi-Final hosting coin.

At current there are no tie-breakers Hope could win vs Albion or Calvin......unless we get some sort of 2 week free for all and a bunch of teams start beating each other.  As it is its very peculiar to have the conference leader holding no tie-breakers.

If(big if) Calvin won out, and tied with Hope for the MIAA first place with two losses, I thought it first goes by head to head, and then since that would be a tie, it goes by margin of victory against each other, meaning Calvin would have to beat Hope by more than 3 to have the tourney in GR.  Maybe I'm wrong...

Margin of victory is not used to determine the host of the tournament (it is used in soccer, however). 

[Pat Coleman]

Yep, that is that shot.

So the viewer can't see how off balance to the left he was, and cannot see the ball bank off the glass and roll around the rim and in.   

Care to give a few more words of explanation on which shot/what the significance of this shot was?  I'm not clued into MIAA history to get the reference. Thanks!

Sorry, my bad:

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=1376
Calvin-Hope rivalry gains another great shot

[Erm Schmigget]

Yep, that is that shot.

So the viewer can't see how off balance to the left he was, and cannot see the ball bank off the glass and roll around the rim and in.   

Care to give a few more words of explanation on which shot/what the significance of this shot was?  I'm not clued into MIAA history to get the reference. Thanks!

Sorry, my bad:

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=1376
Calvin-Hope rivalry gains another great shot

Okay, okay...enough!   

[realist]

FWIW:  Calvin made a highlight video featuring last second shots, and other highlights of the 99-00 season.   The shot by Aaron was one of several that just look impossible each time you watch them.

[NW Hope Fan]

I was sitting right behind Veenstra on the inbounds pass, and that photo changes my memory. I swore he was a lot closer to mid court and I swore Carlson got up in the air with him... Guess I've been trying all these years to ease my pain.


Still don't know why Chad didn't foul him as soon as he had the ball, but it did happen soooo sooo fast... Oh well! It was destiny...

[AlwaysHope]

Always Hope,

I saw all 3 (Brady, Veenstra, DeHorn) play.  Unfortunately, when we only look back to stats and don't consider the other intangibles of the game and the eras in which they played, it is easy to overlook other people and the accomplishments they made.  Brady and Veenstra were both excellent players that stood the test of time with a full and accomplished career at their respective schools.  DeHorn was an incredible talent and I watched him go toe-to-toe with Brady when Bill was only a freshman.  He held his own pretty well, but this Chicago boy had a big head and let it get in his way.  He encountered some difficulties at Calvin and left for Taylor for a year or two before returning in his senior year.  He never got the raw talent refined and so I would not put him in the same league as Brady and Veenstra.  In later years, I would put my attention to Holtstege from Hope and Honderd from Calvin, if considering the all time greats of MIAA.  I simply don't know enough about players from the other MIAA schools to make a strong case.  I do, however, remember a host of very talented players, but from teams that never seemed to get into contention.  My overall choice of best in the MIAA, from visual experience over the past 40 years would be Steve Honderd.

Now that you put Honderd into the mix, I thought I would do a little research here, which I am sure you already know.

Taking my orange and blue tinted glasses off for a minute, Hondred had very impressive credentials.  All he did was win two MIAA MVP awards and lead his team to three MIAA titles and one national championship! (The MIAA site has him listed as both 2 MVPS and one MVP, depending on where you look, but I think two is correct (1992 and 1993); one post had Knoester winning in 1993, but I think he won it in 1994.)

He was fourth in career scoring in the MIAA with 1,046 points, behind M. Veenstra (1,233), Brady (1,170), and Hope's Dan Shinabarger (1,117).  He did play in a different era (1989-93) than the other three (who played from 1964 - 1977) making comparisons more difficult.  We already discussed the different rules in play when Steve played.

His accuracy was even more impressive.  He was second in the MIAA career shooting percentage at .663, so he made almost exactly 2 out of 3 shots over four years.  He also was 7th in free throw shooting at .854.

I was surprised he was not among the leaders in rebounding, since he was such a large and dominant center.  Brady leads with 648 MIAA career rebounds, followed by M. Veenstra at 615.  #9 belongs to Jeremy Veenstra at 373, while Aaron Winkle is tied at # 10 with 371.  So Hondred has something less than 371, a very sizeable difference from the all-time leaders.  He probably had difficulty getting his own rebound, because he rarely missed!

I know that "figures lie, and liars figure", but I still would like to see all the career stats of these outstanding MIAA players.  Also, I am only comparing stats within the MIAA, since they are readily available.

I will now put my glasses back on!

[AlwaysHope]

Yep, that is that shot.

So the viewer can't see how off balance to the left he was, and cannot see the ball bank off the glass and roll around the rim and in.   

Care to give a few more words of explanation on which shot/what the significance of this shot was?  I'm not clued into MIAA history to get the reference. Thanks!

Sorry, my bad:

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=1376
Calvin-Hope rivalry gains another great shot

I know I am being redundant with an earlier posting, so ignore this if you know what I am going to say.

For those new to this site, Winkle made an unbelievable shot, so give him credit.  Had he missed, and there was no further scoring, the all-time series is tied at 72 games each, and the ALL-TIME POINTS SCORED IS ALSO TIED.  SO IF YOU ASSUME THAT THE YEAR 2000 IS THE END OF THE 20TH CENTURY, "THE RIVALRY" ENDS THE 20TH CENTURY WITH THE TWO TEAMS TIED IN POINTS AND WINS.  The PR people can have a field day!

Hope did have a desperation shot, a trey that bounced off the rim and just missed going in, which would have restored the 3 point margin and kept everything tied.  But Winkle screwed up everything!

Interesting call if we should have fouled him.  Keep in mind that he got the ball with 8 seconds (I believe).  Had Carlson fouled him (before he shot the three), and he made two shots, we have a one point lead with 6 - 7 (?) seconds left; Calvin then goes for a turnover, else fouls Hope right away.  What are the odds of him making the three vs. Calvin scoring after a Hope posession?  Or of him deliberately missing the second free throw and Calvin getting possession?  Pick your poison. 

Someone said that this went very fast!  Obviously Carlson did not want to foul Winkle when he was shooting, so there was a very narrrow window in which to foul.

Anyway, it was predestined!

[kiltedbryan]

Yep, that is that shot.

So the viewer can't see how off balance to the left he was, and cannot see the ball bank off the glass and roll around the rim and in.  

Care to give a few more words of explanation on which shot/what the significance of this shot was?  I'm not clued into MIAA history to get the reference. Thanks!

Sorry, my bad:

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=1376
Calvin-Hope rivalry gains another great shot

Thanks.  Shots like that are simply killer. I still remember a Wittenberg player banking in a desperation 3 pointer to beat Wooster in Wooster back in like 1994 or so- since that shot went against the home team, Timken Gym fell as silent as I've ever heard it when that shot went in (well, save for the contingent of Witt fans, or course).

[thealmascots]

Do any of you who are commenting on seeing Brady, Veenstra, DeHorn, etc. remember seeing Mickey Phelps play at Calvin.  He was first team all-conference as a junior in '69 and was league MVP in '70.  He is in the top 10 all time on Calvin's scoring list.  My expectation is that he was fun to watch, but I have never talked with anyone who saw him.

[thealmascots]

Nice link to a video of the 1992 Calvin team done by Calvin SID Jeff Febus when he was a student at Calvin.  Great footage of Honderd for those who never got to see him.

http://www.watch-basketball-videos.com/watch/?vid=79568

[GoKnights68]

I don't think it's been mentioned, but Steve Honderd did get voted player of the decade, which is an amazing award.  I remember attending a talk with Steve's dad, Ralph, a few years back.  Ralph went on to talk about his family, and when he mentioned Steve, and said something how Steve played here at Calvin and was pretty good.  Right away, the Calvin basketball fans in the crowd started laughing and go "Pretty good, Ralph?"

Anyways, I never got to see Honderd or Veenstra play in person unfortunately, but I've talked to some old-timers that saw Veenstra, Honderd, Winkle, Holstege, and Brady all play in person, and they all agree that Mark Veenstra is the best out of all them.  And that's a pretty bold thing to say with all those guys I listed there.

And thanks for the link, almascots.  I've seen the Calvin 2000 video a couple times, but haven't seen that one.  That'd be sweet to see more footage from old MIAA games.  I'd love to see footage from some of Hope's great teams from '95 to '98.

[Happy Calvin Guy]

Nice link to a video of the 1992 Calvin team done by Calvin SID Jeff Febus when he was a student at Calvin.  Great footage of Honderd for those who never got to see him.

http://www.watch-basketball-videos.com/watch/?vid=79568

Thanks TAS for this link!  For a good laugh check out the taunting Calvin student dancing at the Gustavus fans at the 12:07 mark.....

[Gregory Sager]

Nice link to a video of the 1992 Calvin team done by Calvin SID Jeff Febus when he was a student at Calvin.  Great footage of Honderd for those who never got to see him.

http://www.watch-basketball-videos.com/watch/?vid=79568

Great video, and it was fun to see Honderd & Co. again after all these years, but I didn't see any footage of the one game Calvin lost that season.

[northb]

Nice link to a video of the 1992 Calvin team done by Calvin SID Jeff Febus when he was a student at Calvin.  Great footage of Honderd for those who never got to see him.

http://www.watch-basketball-videos.com/watch/?vid=79568

Great video, and it was fun to see Honderd & Co. again after all these years, but I didn't see any footage of the one game Calvin lost that season.

Dang Vikings!  Actually, some have postulated that it was that loss that re-oriented and motivated Calvin on to the National Championship.