MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[dumezrules]

Congrats to Hope on winning the MIAA.  13-1 is a great season.
I think Calvin will recover sufficently to handle Olivet on Wed., but what they might face on Fri, and then Sat is going to take a herculean effort. 

Anyone else get the feeling Calvin didnt gameplan too much for the past two games in order to have a chance in the MIAA tourney as even before Wed.  they would have probably had to win the tourney to get in.  Now they can play Olivet again at home with a game plan and then (if they can beat Albion) play an overconfident Hope team in the finals. Maybe with a defensive game plan this time.

[Happy Calvin Guy]

Someone overheard a Calvin player say, at DeVos following their loss, something to the effect of, "oh well, this game doesn't matter anyway."  Could it be that they're laying low and waiting until the tournament to put in any effort?  Or was it merely bravado trying to deny the real toll of the loss on the team? 

If the Knights are just "laying low", then that is not the attitude of champions.  I don't think you can just flip a switch and turn on heart.  The NY Giants could have just "laid low" in their final reg season game against the Pats since it didn't mean anything for postseason, but they came out with intensity (even though they lost), because apparently they truly did have the heart of a champion and eventually won the Super Bowl.   

Let's just say I'm still hopeful for this week, if not optimistic.

[Happy Calvin Guy]

You guys aren't very good at not providing motivation.

I agree, all you Hope posters are correct....the Knights have no chance this week.  Probably lose to Olivet and look bad doing it   .....as for Hope, I think your biggest worry is just making sure there are enough available hotel rooms in Salem and working on your dance moves for your youtube MVP campaigns!   

[sac]

In the last 6 years Hope's made the NCAA tournament 3 times because of the tournament AQ, 2002, 2003 and 2006.  Its iffy that the 02 and 03 teams would have made the tournament without winning the MIAA tournament.  Certainly not the 2002 team.  2006 was a lock going into the MIAA tournament.

Without winning the tournament Hope's final records to present to the committee would have been.
02 --20-9
03 --22-5

The first 5 MIAA tournaments went to plan with the regular season champ winning all of them.  In 1998 Albion won the MIAA tournament, becoming the first "underdog" to walk away with the AQ, but the regular season champ, Hope, still made the tournament.

Here are the 7 times the regular season champ did not win the tournament.  Regular season champ in ( )
98-- Albion  (Hope)
99-- Defiance  (Calvin)
02-- Hope (Calvin)
04-- Calvin (Hope)
05-- Calvin (Albion)
06-- Hope (Calvin)
07-- Calvin (Hope)

What you have to realize is, each one of these teams came within a game or a reverse score of either winning or shareing the MIAA title  except 99 Defiance and 07 Calvin.  Defiance probably would not have won the 1999 title, because of the way the standings finished and 2007 Calvin was 3 full games back of Hope despite beating Hope once in the regular season.

Only in 1999 (Calvin), 2003 (Albion co-champ) and 2004 (Hope) did the regular season champ, NOT make the NCAA tournament.  So to this point, less than 20% of the time the MIAA regular season champ is not makeing the NCAA tournament.

In 2005 and 2006 I don't think the MIAA sent questionable teams to the tournament through the AQ.  05 Calvin went to the final four, 06 Hope made the Sectional losing to the eventual runner-up.

In 2008, Hope's probably a lock, though that can't be determined with certainty.  I think its safe to say the MIAA has never sent a truely bad team to the NCAA tournament because of the AQ coming from the MIAA tournament.

[NW Hope Fan]

Salem is a long way off for any team right now Happy...

You guys aren't very good at not providing motivation.

They don't need motivation... a potential end to their season should be motivating enough. I'm not saying Calvin is a bad team... I just think we've heard all season about the 2nd game of the year and lots of potential, that's all!

If I were a gambling man I'd say the chance of another Hope Calvin game on Saturday is very likely (as much as the season record would indicate between Calvin/Albion). And if the outcome of this weekend is another pool C bid for Hope (and another MIAA team in the NCAA tournament), and a loss to recover from and grow from... I think it might be beneficial. Of course I'd rather see the League championship and the league tournament victory for Hope, and move on from there.

[HopeConvert]

I've given up predicting anything as far as Calvin is concerned. Who knows what they'll do? All I know is they have way too much talent to have ten losses on the year. I'm not sure where the blame lies - although I have opinions - but in the end it's about wins and losses, and the body of work produced by this team gives no reason to predict success for them. The enormous gap between expectations and results certainly creates a lot of room for speculation about what went wrong.

An interesting maiden voyage to Tri-State yesterday. Good to see and chat with my fellow Hope posters and share a conference clinching win with them. I didn't think Hope played particularly well, but the mark of a champion is to put a team away even when you're not at your best. Hope made the plays when they had to. Any word on Wolfe?

[ChicagoHopeNut]

I think its safe to say the MIAA has never sent a truely bad team to the NCAA tournament because of the AQ coming from the MIAA tournament.

Agreed. The circumstances have been rare in the MIAA and even beyond where a truly bad team, like John Jay, gets to the tourney in place of a more deserving team. However, I disagree with the practice as a matter of principle. The root cause of the conference tournament is $$$. I realize that is a far bigger motivator at the D1 level but I think it still is a motivation at D3 even if the bottom line is thousands rather than millions. I much prefer the UAA and Ivy League approach and the assurance that only deserving teams make the tourney.

The reality is if Calvin wins the MIAA tourney, which they are more than capable of doing they are not a deserving team based on their resume of work throughout the year. Beating Wash U once does not excuse the rest of the year when you have more talent than anyone else in the conference (in my opinion) and probably top 10 talent in the country.

[HopeConvert]

At the DI level it is about the money. I've never quite understood what the appeal is at the DIII level (other than the fact we get to see more basketball). But it raises something I've wondered about: how are the gate receipts divided? Do teams making the final get a bigger share? Does Hope get a bigger share for hosting? Do all receipts get divided equally between all league members?

[KnightSlappy]

The reality is if Calvin wins the MIAA tourney, which they are more than capable of doing they are not a deserving team based on their resume of work throughout the year. Beating Wash U once does not excuse the rest of the year when you have more talent than anyone else in the conference (in my opinion) and probably top 10 talent in the country.

If Calvin wins the MIAA tournament, that makes them a "deserving" team.  Far worse teams have made the NCAA tournament.  I know we get down on the MIAA for not having a better non-conference record and but the truth is that the MIAA is still a very good conference.  Is it the CCIW or WIAC? No but it is still a good conference that could send 2-3 teams to the tournament that could compete very well in most years.  Should Calvin have won more games this year?  YES.  Would they be a deserving team if they won the MIAA tournament? YES.  Could they win a round or two in the tournament? YES.  It is really easy to get down on this Calvin team after the last two games but they are still a good team and their season is not over yet.

[KnightSlappy]

The Calvin bandwagon is a lot lighter a week later.

[GoVols]

. Any word on Wolfe?

http://blogs.hollandsentinel.com/lee/

[GoKnights68]

Losing to all the probable teams Calvin will/would have to play if they win out (Olivet, Albion, and Hope) will be enough motivation for the Knights to play their best each game.  So far it's been a disappointing season, but we all know how much this week in the history of the MIAA can change the verdict on season.

Until the Knights season is done, we Calvin fans should wait to point fingers and give some credit to Hope and Albion who were both clearly the top two teams this season in the MIAA.

Looking forward to Wednesday and seeing how the players respond to their loss on Saturday to Olivet.

[calvin_grad]

I hope Calvin loses in the MIAA tourney before they play have to play Hope so they dont get smoked again.

This post hardly dignifies a response, but I can't believe you call yourself a Knight fan.  

[sac]

I think its safe to say the MIAA has never sent a truely bad team to the NCAA tournament because of the AQ coming from the MIAA tournament.

Agreed. The circumstances have been rare in the MIAA and even beyond where a truly bad team, like John Jay, gets to the tourney in place of a more deserving team. However, I disagree with the practice as a matter of principle. The root cause of the conference tournament is $$$. I realize that is a far bigger motivator at the D1 level but I think it still is a motivation at D3 even if the bottom line is thousands rather than millions. I much prefer the UAA and Ivy League approach and the assurance that only deserving teams make the tourney.

The reality is if Calvin wins the MIAA tourney, which they are more than capable of doing they are not a deserving team based on their resume of work throughout the year. Beating Wash U once does not excuse the rest of the year when you have more talent than anyone else in the conference (in my opinion) and probably top 10 talent in the country.

You bring up good points, personlly I love the tournament weekend, Friday and Saturday are always something to look forward to from a purely entertaining basketball standpoint.  Even though its been a long time, some of the end of season games prior to teams figuring out they could actually win the MIAA tournament were kind of brutal.  I think it keep teams focused on a goal, and for some a more realistic goal of playing one good week of basketball vs an entire season where they realisticly don't have what it takes.  Consequently the basketball is better at the end of the season.

But, I think we're to a point where the NCAA selection process has become so difficult  that having a tournament can actually harm your conference.  It seems it would be more beneficial to have the 3 more non-conference games, and maybe throw some bye dates in the confernce season.  But then again maybe not.

As far as the money factor goes, I can't imagine its a big money maker for anyone, but maybe enough to keep it viable.  The MIAA will probably draw more fans than any other tournament and probably more money.  IF they get 3,000 for both Friday and Saturday that would be something above $30,000, not exactly chump change to a small conference.  There are certainly a lot of conferences out there with much bigger geographical fingerprints and other fan limitations that won't come close to that figure.

Aside from money, I think its about providing another competitive outlet for the athletes.  As an athlete, who wouldn't want an end of season tournament.  The tournament wouldn't have much point if something weren't attached to it.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Some notes on the conference tourney debate:

I'm pretty sure the tourney only counts as one game toward the d3 limit of 25 (since half the teams will only GET one game); if I'm remembering that correctly, dropping the tourney could only add one non-con game, not three.

It's doubtful that even the MIAA tourney (which probably will have the highest attendance of any) actually makes money.  By the time you factor in travel, meals, lodging for all the visiting teams, building expenses, refs, etc., even $30 grand doesn't go all that far.

A FULL conference tourney possibly could hurt some teams - first round (and sometimes even second round) games may actually harm a team's OWP (not to mention the risk of someday sending a team that truly IS a bad rep for the conference).  I like the CCIW's compromise of a 4-team tourney.  All but at most one or two teams are still in contention right to the final week, but (except in rare years) the tourney games will be good for one's OWP and the AQ (even if #4) is still gonna be a pretty solid team.