MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[mjfasteenwolf]

I am now seeing why all these calvin fans are down playing their Knights going into the MIAA tourny. (Besides there 14-10 recordor) they know their team is more than capible of winning the tournment but they just dont want us other fans to see it. 

Calvin definetely has the coaching, and ability to win the tournament. By playing it down, it is just going to make it easier for their fans if it doesn't work out that way, and their season is over, either tonight, or more likely thursday/saturday night.

[sac]

MIAA Tournament Trivia

16 MIAA Tournaments

CHAMPIONS
Calvin 8 times--92-93-94-00-01-04-05-07
Hope 6 times--95-96-97-02-03-06
Albion 1 time--98
Defiance 1 time--99

CHAMPIONSHIP GAME APPEARANCES AND RECORD
Calvin 12 times............8-4
Hope 8 times................6-2
Albion 5 times...............1-4
Kalamazoo 3 times.......0-3
Adrian 2 times..............0-2
Defiance 2 times...........1-1

SEMI-FINAL APPEARANCES
Calvin...................16
Hope....................16
Albion...................13
Adrian...................7
Kalamazoo............7
Defiance................2
Alma......................1
Olivet.....................1
Tri-State.................1

SEMI-FINAL RECORDS
Calvin..................12-4
Hope....................8-8
Albion...................5-8
Kalamazoo............3-4
Adrian....................2-5
Defiance................2-0
Alma......................0-1
Olivet.....................0-1
Tri-State.................0-1

TOURNAMENT SEMI-FINAL HOSTS
Calvin 8 times
Hope 6 times
Albion 2 times

Semi-Final Host has made the Championship game 14 of 16 times.



FIRST ROUND RECORDS
Calvin.............11-0
Hope..............11-0
Albion..............12-3
Adrian..............7-9
Kalamazoo.......7-9
Alma.................1-15
Olivet................1-15
Tri-State............1-2
Defiance............2-0

FIRST ROUND........Home teams are 48-5 overall, 2003 last home team to lose in first round play.


OVERALL TOURNAMENT RECORDS
Calvin..........................31-8
Hope...........................25-10
Albion..........................18-15
Kalamazoo...................10-16
Adrian...........................9-16
Defiance........................5-1
Alma..............................1-16
Olivet.............................1-16
Tri-State.........................1-3

[GoKnights68]

Let me just add that the key for the Knights to have success in the MIAA tourney is to simply be physical.

Well that is the key to play well I just mean.  That obviously doesn't mean they're going to win of course, with nationally ranked teams like Albion and Hope in the mix, and of course Olivet in round 1.

Can't wait for round 1 tomorrow night.  The final game at the fieldhouse ... 

[realist]

Nice to see Albion move up to #25.  Not a fan of polls, and this points out a major weakness.   Not so long ago they did not even merit h.m.  Gosh it was just last week, and Pat had such "fine" reasons why they didn't get h.m.  Did the MIAA suddenly get that much better?   I am sure the new answer has to be the rest of the country just went really bad.
dm:  As a Calvin fan I picked them to beat Albion, and give Hope all they can handle in the final.  I am not sure how this qualifies as "downplaying" Calvin. 

[northb]

Let me just add that the key for the Knights to have success in the MIAA tourney is to simply be physical.

Well that is the key to play well I just mean.  That obviously doesn't mean they're going to win of course, with nationally ranked teams like Albion and Hope in the mix, and of course Olivet in round 1.

Can't wait for round 1 tomorrow night.  The final game at the fieldhouse ... 

Unless Albion and Hope both lose and Calvin wins....so, this is is the last game at the Fieldhouse!

[sac]

Nice to see Albion move up to #25.  Not a fan of polls, and this points out a major weakness.   Not so long ago they did not even merit h.m.  Gosh it was just last week, and Pat had such "fine" reasons why they didn't get h.m.  Did the MIAA suddenly get that much better?   I am sure the new answer has to be the rest of the country just went really bad.

Not being honorable mention just means none of the twenty five voters voted for them in their top 25.  It doesn't mean they weren't as high as #26 on some ballots.   I believe 10 of the honorable mentions from last weeks poll lost plus 3 or 4 from the bottom of that weeks top 25.  Albion passed alot of teams by winning when others didn't.

[HopeConvert]

It's even harder to beat a team five times in one season! 

[realist]

Nice to see Albion move up to #25.  Not a fan of polls, and this points out a major weakness.   Not so long ago they did not even merit h.m.  Gosh it was just last week, and Pat had such "fine" reasons why they didn't get h.m.  Did the MIAA suddenly get that much better?   I am sure the new answer has to be the rest of the country just went really bad.

Not being honorable mention just means none of the twenty five voters voted for them in their top 25.  It doesn't mean they weren't as high as #26 on some ballots.   I believe 10 of the honorable mentions from last weeks poll lost plus 3 or 4 from the bottom of that weeks top 25.  Albion passed alot of teams by winning when others didn't.

Sac:   To go from not 1 voter having them on their ballot to getting 42 points is quite a jump especially this late in the season.  This would indicate that Albion appeared on most of the ballots, and that some voters had them 24 or higher.  All the way back in week 4 Albion had 15 points.  Losing to Hope and Kalamazoo hurt Albion, but since that time lots of teams lost while Albion was winning.    FWIW I could not find any other team this year that had 42 or more points one week that had no points the prior week.  
Albion has a 10-0 run, including beating highly ranked Hope, and not one voter takes notice.    They beat D3 powers Alma, and Tri State  to make the run 12-0 and suddenly get noticed.
You might have confidence in the polls, but I am still skeptical.

[realist]

It's even harder to beat a team five times in one season! 

I guess that explains why Hope has never done it.

[northb]

It's even harder to beat a team five times in one season! 

Calvin seems to have defeated themselves several times during this season.

[Erm Schmigget]

It's even harder to beat a team five times in one season! 

I guess that explains why Hope has never done it.

No, but as soon as we do, we'll make a banner for it.  

[realist]

Does this mean Hope is going to schedule Grace Bible 5 times one year?  Better watch out.  You know they beat CU this year don't you?

[sac]

Does this mean Hope is going to schedule Grace Bible 5 times one year?  Better watch out.  You know they beat CU this year don't you?

They also beat UM-Dearborn and Davenport.


.....and lost to Cornerstone, UM-Dearborn and Davenport the 2nd time they played.

[Pat Coleman]

Nice to see Albion move up to #25.  Not a fan of polls, and this points out a major weakness.   Not so long ago they did not even merit h.m.  Gosh it was just last week, and Pat had such "fine" reasons why they didn't get h.m.  Did the MIAA suddenly get that much better?   I am sure the new answer has to be the rest of the country just went really bad.

The 42 points for 25th place is a pretty low number, easy to achieve. I put them 22nd on my ballot, so that was four points. If only nine of the other 24 voters did the same, there you are.

Perhaps some voters got some extra intel on Albion, or a scouting report, that helped them evaluate Albion's rough patch as well.

[Gregory Sager]

I believe 6 or 7 MIAA teams have won the 3rd game after winning the first 2 over the last 2 seasons, vs just 1 winning after losing the first 2.

That doesn't change anything, as there's so much college basketball out there that you can find counterexamples to any general trend.

The idea that it's harder to beat a team a third time just doesn't make any sense when you stop to think about it. If Team A beats Team B once, then it could mean that Team A is simply better -- or any number of mitigating factors might be involved (injuries, illnesses, lucky bounce in a tight game, homecourt advantage, etc.). If Team A beats Team B a second time, however, the chances are much more likely that Team A is definitely better than Team B. So why on earth would the trend in Team A's favor be reversed if Team B was to meet up with Team A a third time?

Answer: It wouldn't. The more that you beat a team without that team beating you, the more definitively you establish your dominance over that team.

I was talking specifically about a Calvin / Albion game and a Hope / Calvin game.

Albion beat Calvin twice this year - but the first game was a 2 point game with 18 seconds left, and the second game was won on a 3pt buzzer beater.  Hard to say that one team is dominant over the other.  I would be more likely to say that the two teams are pretty evenly matched, and therefore if they play each other again, the odds may be in Calvins favor to win.

Hope beat Calvin twice this year - but this is Hope vs Calvin - 168 games played, Hope 85 Calvin 83 and the "best" team doesn't always win.

I can agree with you about both of the specific instances you cite. It's the bandying about of the platitude "it's hard to beat a team three times" by sports fans as though it was a general rule to which I object. If it was true, then Hope fans would be reciting it and wringing their hands over the prospect of facing Alma a third time after having beaten the Scots twice already this season.