MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Mr. Ypsi]

Welcome aboard, iceBerg!

I agree about supporting you conference rep (I'll be pulling for Augie and Wheaton, however much I despise them during the season!), though only partially for the reason you cited.  A better measure of relative conference strength is by numerous teams playing each other (e.g., the CCIW-MIAA challenge annually pitting Hope and Calvin against Wheaton and Carthage, Tri-State losing to IWU but Albion beating them, etc.).  And I disagree with the earlier posts that Hope going far (or even all the way) would boost the MIAA. 

Hope going far would no more boost the MIAA than would Wooster boost the NCAC - THEY already have national respect.  It is up to the rest to move the conferences up from average/good to elite.  The NCAC has a chance to bolster their image a bit this year with OWU in the tourney, since they are seen as Woo, Witt, and 'huh?'.  The MIAA is seen as Hope/Calvin and sometimes Albion beating up on nobodies.

I say this as a CCIW (IWU) partisan, but also as a Michigander of closing in on 38 years.  I'd LOVE to see the MIAA join the elite (where I think it should belong), but Hope's run won't affect that.  Respect for the MIAA depends on Adrian and Kzoo and Olivet and Trine (and even Alma!), not on those recently in the tourney.

[HopeConvert]

Rivalries are tricky things. I know that, for me, there are absolutely no circumstances under which I would ever root for Ohio State. The legions of hell could be torturing me with extreme malice and I wouldn't budge. But I'd like to think the Hope/Calvin rivalry is on a different plane. To paraphrase, we're two schools divided by a common tradition. There's no one I would rather beat on the basketball court than my brother, but I'd root for him against anyone else.

I remember Calvin hosting national championships when I was a student there in the early 80's. Scranton won one of those tournaments, if I recall right.

[Pat Coleman]

The men are hosting because it is an every other year policy with the NCAA.  If you recall last year the Hope women hosted the first round at DeVos.

No they went to DePauw last year.  The women could have hosted this week since the men drew a bye, that is possible in the NCAA tournament manual.  However they chose otherwise, for reasons I do not know.

But otherwise, yes the men have priority in even years for the first and second round when both teams are eligible.

Hope's women have never hosted a tournament game since moving to DeVos.

It may not have been known that the Hope men were going to get a bye when the women finalized their bracket. Certainly seems like there wasn't a lot of communication back and forth -- witness the women forced to change to hosting sites after releasing the bracket.

[sac]

The men are hosting because it is an every other year policy with the NCAA.  If you recall last year the Hope women hosted the first round at DeVos.

No they went to DePauw last year.  The women could have hosted this week since the men drew a bye, that is possible in the NCAA tournament manual.  However they chose otherwise, for reasons I do not know.

But otherwise, yes the men have priority in even years for the first and second round when both teams are eligible.

Hope's women have never hosted a tournament game since moving to DeVos.

It may not have been known that the Hope men were going to get a bye when the women finalized their bracket. Certainly seems like there wasn't a lot of communication back and forth -- witness the women forced to change to hosting sites after releasing the bracket.

I think you're on the right track regarding Hope not hosting.

Makes you wonder why the selection times don't rotate with the even/odd years as well........seems like a no brainer.

[Pat Coleman]

no brainer

[Gregory Sager]

The bigger concern, aside from the obvious fact that Hope actually has to earn that trip on the floor against either the Crusaders or the Bison, is the fact that their women might get in the way. As scottiedawg said, the Hope women's team gets hosting priority on the second weekend if both Hope teams make it that far.

Yes, but as we've already covered here, and on the women's page, while Hope's women may have priority over Hope's men, Howard Payne's women have priority over Hope's women.  The women's bracket shapes up to have Howard Payne host down in Texas (assuming they win on Sat).

Since nobody knows whether or not the Howard Payne women will earn their way into the sectionals, the point is hardly moot.

[Gregory Sager]

Rivalries are tricky things. I know that, for me, there are absolutely no circumstances under which I would ever root for Ohio State. The legions of hell could be torturing me with extreme malice and I wouldn't budge. But I'd like to think the Hope/Calvin rivalry is on a different plane. To paraphrase, we're two schools divided by a common tradition. There's no one I would rather beat on the basketball court than my brother, but I'd root for him against anyone else.

I remember Calvin hosting national championships when I was a student there in the early 80's. Scranton won one of those tournaments, if I recall right.

I could tell you who won the national championships in '85 and '87 that Calvin hosted, but that would probably be interpreted as more CCIW braggadocio, and I don't want to rouse northb's ire.

[DBQ1965]

I say this as a CCIW (IWU) partisan, but also as a Michigander of closing in on 38 years.  I'd LOVE to see the MIAA join the elite (where I think it should belong), but Hope's run won't affect that.  Respect for the MIAA depends on Adrian and Kzoo and Olivet and Trine (and even Alma!), not on those recently in the tourney.

Hi Mr. Ypsi ...

I've seen your name on IIAC posts ... I'm a U of Dubuque grad ... but I spent one year at Wheaton back in another life.  Anyway, I'm transplanted to Michigan as well (since 1990) and do follow MIAA athletics ... especially, Calvin, Hope and Olivet (always for the underdog).

It will be interesting to see how IIAC, MIAA and CCIW all fare in this year's tourney.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Looking ahead to a potential Hope v Capital game on Saturday, I sense some nervousness in the Hope faithful, and given the statistical comparison and the size of the Capital team, maybe it's with good reason (although I bet Capital has a match-up problem with Hope's athleticism).  There is one area (in addition to home court) where I see a big Hope advantage - NCAA tournament experience. 

In comparing the two teams,  I decided to just look at the previous two years, since no Hope player played on the Hope Varsity that year, and no Capital player any significant minutes in 04-05.  Neither team made the tournament that year anyway (Hope was 15-12 and Capital was 16-9). 

05-06 Season
Hope - finished the year 28-3 including 2-1 in the tournament.  Hosted and won 2 games (W. Lutheran & Calvin).  Lost in the Sweet 16 to Witt.

Capital - finished the year 12-13 and did not qualify for the tournament


06-07 Season
Hope - finished the year 26-5 including 3-1 in the tournament.  Won 3 "neutral" site games (Chicago, Calvin, and Carroll).  Lost in the Elite 8 to Wash U.

Capital - finished the season 19-9 including 0-1 in the tournament.  Lost to Centre in the first round.



So these Hope players have 7 games of NCAA experience under their belt, while Capital players have 1.

[realist]

FDF:  I am not so sure that prior NCAA experience is any predictor of success or failure.  Calvin in 00 had zippo NCAA experience, and that turned out pretty good.  At this point I think Hope has definite advantages over either Capital or Bethany.  I do expect if Hope plays Capital they will have there hands full, and see a team like Calvin or Albion that plays lots of guys lots of minutes.

Pat:  Thanks for the update on the Salem facility.  The Delta Plex being a hockey rink is the only reason I mentioned the similarity.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

realist - guess we'll have to disagree on that one.  IMHO -  the experience of playing in the tournament (win or go home) is different than the rest of the season (maybe a conference tourney is like that too, if you aren't a Pool C lock).  The pressure is just different, and I think those 6 extra games our seniors and juniors have played are a factor. 

[hope1]

all i know i got the tickets for the game saturday and go  hope

[realist]

realist - guess we'll have to disagree on that one.  IMHO -  the experience of playing in the tournament (win or go home) is different than the rest of the season (maybe a conference tourney is like that too, if you aren't a Pool C lock).  The pressure is just different, and I think those 6 extra  :)games our seniors and juniors have played are a factor. 

FDF:  Yes, we differ on this point.  I found the following very interesting:
Hope's 96 team made it to the final game, and had only 1 game prior NCAA experience in 95. 
Hope's 98 team made the final game, and seniors that year had 10 games prior NCAA experience.
Fastly different prior experience, but the same result.

[section7]

No wonder the worlds so mad at us.  We've been taunting.

Now that was funny SAC!

[Flying Dutch Fan]

realist - guess we'll have to disagree on that one.  IMHO -  the experience of playing in the tournament (win or go home) is different than the rest of the season (maybe a conference tourney is like that too, if you aren't a Pool C lock).  The pressure is just different, and I think those 6 extra  :)games our seniors and juniors have played are a factor. 

FDF:  Yes, we differ on this point.  I found the following very interesting:
Hope's 96 team made it to the final game, and had only 1 game prior NCAA experience in 95. 
Hope's 98 team made the final game, and seniors that year had 10 games prior NCAA experience.
Fastly different prior experience, but the same result.

I hear you (ah, make that read you) and I'm not saying that the experienced team automatically wins - but at the same time, they are not in a "foreign land" and so have to be a little more at ease.  In my experience, a team that is more relaxed (looser) going into a game typically has an advantage.  The teams experience level is one contributor to that, just like home court, etc.  Of course I am the guy who thinks it's hard to beat the same team 3 times in a year