MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[hoopdreams]

in regards to Hopes incoming class of frosh, it will be difficult to top the"wish list" of kids that came in this year.  There will be many players coming in and in time, buying into the team first mentality, will become fine players also.

Although it's not official, they have their 08 PG, he's one of their top recruits.  Long, pass first PG who will have to realize that he doesn't need to score 25 a game like he did in hs.  How many PG's will they keep on varsity and how many on the jv will wish they went somewhere else? Carrol, Keyser, Tonn, Bosch, Carter, 2-3 recruits.

Logan Neil will eventually play the 3 when/if he grows into the 6'4 frame so many people claim he already has.  High IQ does alot well, if not great.  Perfect fit for Hope...someday soon hopefully because I love his approach.

The wild card is Schultze from GR Christian, a 6'6 post player with actual post moves, and the ability to finish.  He's not the 6'9 beast everyone is dreaming of but in time will be a nice post scorer.  Hoffmaster from hopkins and moran from allendale have been to many games.

The recruiting shocker for me is Troy Peter because all thought he would go mid major D1.  Reality is that is not going to happen.  6'4 built like a senior in college, not hs.  Big time scorer but mainly due to him being a man against boys.  Think Reimink, only stronger, without the 3 point shot.  Below average perimeter shooter, strong off the dribble and a beast on the boards.  If he comes, Nellis from the JV team is out.

There is another young man from a class D school with HUGE numbers, but I take those with a grain of salt until I see him play against stiffer competition, Peter Bunn is a classic example. 

There are others that are on the radar but having never seen them play, will keep my mouth shut.

Not sold on any of the JV players but in their defense only watched them play 4-5 times.

2008 starting five- Osburn, Reimink, Bowser, Tanis, Carter..... unless there's a big guy transferring in. HMMM?

[Civic Minded]

in regards to Hopes incoming class of frosh, it will be difficult to top the"wish list" of kids that came in this year.  There will be many players coming in and in time, buying into the team first mentality, will become fine players also.


The recruiting shocker for me is Troy Peter because all thought he would go mid major D1.  Reality is that is not going to happen.  6'4 built like a senior in college, not hs.  Big time scorer but mainly due to him being a man against boys.  Think Reimink, only stronger, without the 3 point shot.  Below average perimeter shooter, strong off the dribble and a beast on the boards.  If he comes, Nellis from the JV team is out.

Not sold on any of the JV players but in their defense only watched them play 4-5 times.

Not sure where or when you saw Troy Peter play, but I've seen him as well and would describe him completely differently.  I wouldn't call him stronger than Reimink at all, nor would I describe him as an inside player that could replace Nelis.  Interesting to hear your perspective, though.

As for JV players, they will need to use their summer wisely, to be sure, but there are a few with good potential.  I'd be disappointed if Daniel Cox weren't there, for one.  It will be interesting to see what develops, for sure.

[Gregory Sager]

OK, Wiz, here's your list of head coaches that've helmed their teams to at least two Final Fours. I think that I got them all, although I'm sure that I'll do a V8 slap to the forehead later when I remember one that I've left out:

coach	school(s)	# of F4s	# of titles
Bo Ryan	UW-Platteville	5	4
Jerry Welsh	Potsdam State	5	2
Larry Hunter	Wittenberg	5	1
Bob Bessoir	Scranton	4	2
Dave Hixon	Amherst	4	1
Mike Neer	Rochester	4	1
Glenn Robinson	Franklin & Marshall	4	0
Dan McCarrell	North Park	3	3
Bosko Djurickovic	North Park / Carthage	3	2
Dave Vander Meulen	UW-Whitewater	3	2
Dennis Bridges	Illinois Wesleyan	3	1
John Giannini	Rowan	3	1
Dick Reynolds	Otterbein	3	1
Jim Borcherding	Augustana	3	0
Jerry Schmutte	Nebraska Wesleyan	3	0
Glenn Van Wieren	Hope	3	0
Jack Bennett	UW-Stevens Point	2	2
Joe Campoli	Ohio Northern	2	1
Ed Douma	Calvin	2	1
Mark Edwards	Washington (MO)	2	1
Jerry Johnson	LeMoyne-Owen	2	1
Dave Macedo	Virginia Wesleyan	2	1
Dave Paulsen	Williams	2	1
Kevin Vande Streek	Calvin	2	1
Charles Brown	New Jersey City	2	0
Tom Bryant	Centre	2	0
Wally Halas	Clark	2	0
Steve Moore	Wooster	2	0
Jose Rebimbas	William Paterson	2	0
C. Alan Rowe	Widener	2	0
Tony Shaver	Hampden-Sydney	2	0
Harry Sheehy	Williams	2	0

[Gregory Sager]

BTW, if anyone has a program from the DIII championship, I believe it lists in there somewhere all of the Final Four teams, their records and how many times they finished 1, 2, 3, or 4.
Now, if anyone wants to take the time to go through that and transpose it all ......

No need to do that. It's all available in the NCAA record book. You can find what you're looking for on pages 225-228.

[Gregory Sager]

As for being physical... I thought the Hope/Wash U. game was one of the most physical games I have seen in basketball in YEARS. The refs allowed a lot of contact, especially inside. That being said, as one coach said to be after, that game was a travesty to the game of basketball. I can see his point. It was more like a football or rugby game. Heck... maybe wrestling, as Pat Coleman pointed out in the broadcast of that semi-final game!

As for the physicality of the WashU-Hope game, yes, it was physical, but I've seen a few more physical games that Hope has been in this year. Maybe it has to do with the style of play in the midwest/great lakes regions, as compared to out east, but this style of physical D did not surprise me a ton. Heck, Capital, OWU, and Wheaton all played incredibly physically against us. There were times when I thought the Wheaton game was turning into a football game

Funny thing is, CCIW folks usually consider Wheaton to be a finesse team, and the 2007-08 Wheaton edition was no exception. If a CCIW observer had to rank the league's eight schools by how much they typically employed a bruising, brawling style of play, Wheaton would be at or near the bottom of the list every year. It just goes to show how different leagues, and different areas of the country, can have such sharply contrasting styles of play that their barometers as to what does or doesn't constitute physical basketball end up being radically different.

I'm guessing that the coach who spoke to d-mac and who characterized the Hope/Wash U semifinal as a rugbyesque "travesty to the game of basketball" was a northeasterner rather than a midwesterner. One can only wonder what sort of sputtering invectives would've dropped from that coach's mouth if he'd ever had the chance to see Augustana in action.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

As for being physical... I thought the Hope/Wash U. game was one of the most physical games I have seen in basketball in YEARS. The refs allowed a lot of contact, especially inside. That being said, as one coach said to be after, that game was a travesty to the game of basketball. I can see his point. It was more like a football or rugby game. Heck... maybe wrestling, as Pat Coleman pointed out in the broadcast of that semi-final game!

As for the physicality of the WashU-Hope game, yes, it was physical, but I've seen a few more physical games that Hope has been in this year. Maybe it has to do with the style of play in the midwest/great lakes regions, as compared to out east, but this style of physical D did not surprise me a ton. Heck, Capital, OWU, and Wheaton all played incredibly physically against us. There were times when I thought the Wheaton game was turning into a football game

Funny thing is, CCIW folks usually consider Wheaton to be a finesse team, and the 2007-08 Wheaton edition was no exception. If a CCIW observer had to rank the league's eight schools by how much they typically employed a bruising, brawling style of play, Wheaton would be at or near the bottom of the list every year. It just goes to show how different leagues, and different areas of the country, can have such sharply contrasting styles of play that their barometers as to what does or doesn't constitute physical basketball end up being radically different.

I'm guessing that the coach who spoke to d-mac and who characterized the Hope/Wash U semifinal as a rugbyesque "travesty to the game of basketball" was a northeasterner rather than a midwesterner. One can only wonder what sort of sputtering invectives would've dropped from that coach's mouth if he'd ever had the chance to see Augustana in action.

GS - Our first meeting with Wheaton was nothing like the second one, in terms of the physical nature of the game.  That being said, I would say that the Wheaton game was also the least physical game Hope played in getting to the FF.  Capital and OWU both played a much more physical game.

[hoopdreams]

after watching nellis play, albeit limited, I wouldn't consider him to be the missing post player in need.  I saw him score off cuts, beating his man off the dribble, mid range and even an ill fated 3 point attempt (calvin).

If you look reimink and peter as hs seniors, there is no comparison on how physically mature are are/were. If you compare them now- 18 year old vs. 21 year old, there should be a difference. There hs stats aren't comparable either if you want to do the research. Peter is not the answer in the post either, he can score there if in position, he can take his man off the dribble, and he shoots form the perimeter, not nearly as well as a D1 player should, nor as well as reimink does or did.

Liked Cox too, but at times seemed...soft.  Not sure that's the proper adjective but at times seemed nonexistant o n the floor.  Very savvy, catch and shoot or off the dribble.  

Feel bad for some of the JV pgs though because they would most likely play at another school.

Watched him as recently as his last hs game, 4-22, 0-8 3's. reference to peter,sorry

[Titan Q]

As for being physical... I thought the Hope/Wash U. game was one of the most physical games I have seen in basketball in YEARS. The refs allowed a lot of contact, especially inside. That being said, as one coach said to be after, that game was a travesty to the game of basketball. I can see his point. It was more like a football or rugby game. Heck... maybe wrestling, as Pat Coleman pointed out in the broadcast of that semi-final game!

As for the physicality of the WashU-Hope game, yes, it was physical, but I've seen a few more physical games that Hope has been in this year. Maybe it has to do with the style of play in the midwest/great lakes regions, as compared to out east, but this style of physical D did not surprise me a ton. Heck, Capital, OWU, and Wheaton all played incredibly physically against us. There were times when I thought the Wheaton game was turning into a football game

Funny thing is, CCIW folks usually consider Wheaton to be a finesse team, and the 2007-08 Wheaton edition was no exception. If a CCIW observer had to rank the league's eight schools by how much they typically employed a bruising, brawling style of play, Wheaton would be at or near the bottom of the list every year. It just goes to show how different leagues, and different areas of the country, can have such sharply contrasting styles of play that their barometers as to what does or doesn't constitute physical basketball end up being radically different.

I'm guessing that the coach who spoke to d-mac and who characterized the Hope/Wash U semifinal as a rugbyesque "travesty to the game of basketball" was a northeasterner rather than a midwesterner. One can only wonder what sort of sputtering invectives would've dropped from that coach's mouth if he'd ever had the chance to see Augustana in action.

The Hope/Wash U game didn't strike me any more physical that what we see every Wednesday and Saturday in the CCIW, or what I saw during IWU's non-conference games.  I wouldn't even rank that game in the Top 10 of most physical games I saw this year to be honest.

[hopehoopfan]

after watching nellis play, albeit limited, I wouldn't consider him to be the missing post player in need.  I saw him score off cuts, beating his man off the dribble, mid range and even an ill fated 3 point attempt (calvin).

If you look reimink and peter as hs seniors, there is no comparison on how physically mature are are/were. If you compare them now- 18 year old vs. 21 year old, there should be a difference. There hs stats aren't comparable either if you want to do the research. Peter is not the answer in the post either, he can score there if in position, he can take his man off the dribble, and he shoots form the perimeter, not nearly as well as a D1 player should, nor as well as reimink does or did.

Liked Cox too, but at times seemed...soft.  Not sure that's the proper adjective but at times seemed nonexistant o n the floor.  Very savvy, catch and shoot or off the dribble.  

Feel bad for some of the JV pgs though because they would most likely play at another school.

Watched him as recently as his last hs game, 4-22, 0-8 3's. reference to peter,sorry

Don't forget about Snikkers. He is along the lines of Reimink/Peter. Would you(hoopdreams) be surprised to see this freshman Peter stay on JV for a year? Also, I saw alot of Nelis and he has a large upside but inconsistancy may have been due to the fact that he was only on the team for the second semester and may not have really had a chance to learn the system. As for between Nelis and Snikkers, I give a large edge to Snikkers. Don't count out this year's group of freshman PGs. They are talented, hard workers and until the new recruits come in and they are able to go head to head, I wouldn't count them out(that includes the sophomre Tonn) for a future with the team. Granted, they may be end of the bench, but one or more of them may be able to stick around for 2 or 3 more years.

[hoopdreams]

from what I have heard in Holland is that Snikkers will have to overcome other things before he thinks about playing hoops next year.  As far as the frosh pg guards, I feel badly because they can all play, tonn as well. 

They simply aren't going to keep 4-5 on the varsity. 

Carter and Bosch take 2 spots and I doubt that their "top recruit" will be brought in to play jv. Same with Nellis and Peter. One is a frosh the other a junior.  You can't base everything off of stats and awards but Peter is a 2-time first team all state player and nellis is... I know he went to Zeeland, and have watched both zeeland teams play, and I don't remember him at all.  Did he play with Boersma, kingshott and the other kid at Cornerstone (jungling)?

Anyways, my only hope is that the returning players use the salem experience as motivation, and the potentials do the same.

[realist]

Q:  I am inclined to agree that defining a physical game is subjective, and difficult.  Even two people at the same game may not agree.  It is very possible that in some areas of the country teams are allowed much more physical contact than other areas.  The head of officals in each conference, I am sure, must give some indication how they expect games will be officiated.  Most of the time when disputes arise it isn't over the actual physical nature of the game it is the perception by one side or the other that the officals weren't making the same calls at both ends of the court.   The players on a well coached team will quickly gauge how the refs are calling a game, and adjust their play offensively, and defensively to take advantage when possible.  It takes skilled players to be able to adjust their game on the fly, and not all players have that ability.

[realist]

Regarding Snikkers, if memory serves correct wasn't the expectation at the time he enrolled at Hope that he would have to essentially serve the terms of his suspension offered by CU?  Has he completed those terms, and offered the necessary penance?

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Regarding Snikkers, if memory serves correct wasn't the expectation at the time he enrolled at Hope that he would have to essentially serve the terms of his suspension offered by CU?  Has he completed those terms, and offered the necessary penance?

I believe the answer to that would be yes - as he did not play basketball for one season.

[sac]

Just a reminder, unless I'm missing something, Troy Peter has not said he'll be attending Hope.

[sac]

With Hope's deep run in the tournament you might suspect that Hope broke a team record or two.  The one I'll focus on with this post is 3-point shooting.



Derek VanSolkema broke the single season record for 3's finishing with 84.  He pretty much obliterated the old record of 71 by Joel Holstege in 1998.

Tyler Wolfe finished with 57 3's on the year, which puts him 6th on the list.

1. 84 - Derek VanSolkema (32 games) - 2007-08
2. 71 - Joel Holstege (29 games) - 1996-97
3. 69 - Kevin Brintnell (31 games) - 1995-96
4. 59 - Daane Griffeth (26 games) - 2003-04
    59 - Derek Van Solkema (31 games) - 2006-07
6. 57 - Tyler Wolfe (32 games) - 2007-08
7. 56 - Greg Mitchell (24 games) - 1988-89
8. 54 - Chad Carlson (30 games) - 2001-02
9. 53 - Daane Griffeth (23 games) - 2004-05
10. 52 - Stephen Cramer (31 games) - 2006-07




After this season no one has attempted more 3's in a season than Derek VanSolkema with 207, he topped Kevin Brintnell's old mark of 187 in 1996, also a Final Four season.

1. 207 - Derek VanSolkema (32 games) - 2007-08
2. 187 - Kevin Brintnell (31 games) - 1995-96
3. 155 - Joel Holstege (29 games) - 1996-97
4. 146 - Daane Griffeth (26 games) - 2003-04
5. 140 - Daane Griffeth (23 games) - 2004-05
     140 - Derek Van Solkema (31 games) - 2006-07


Will Bowser's .588 percentage puts him 3rd, ................again no offense to Will but the minimum requirement for this record has got to be more than 5.


Career records

Derek Van Solkema's 152 3's puts him 3rd, Tyler Wolfe's 116 3's put him in a tie for 8th.

1. 181 - Joel Holstege (118 games) - 1994-98
2. 157 - Chad Carlson (110 games) - 1999-03
3. 152 - Derek VanSolkema (72 games) - 2006-08
4. 147 - Stephen Cramer (114 games) - 2003-07
5. 142 - Daane Griffeth (79 games) - 2001-05
6. 122 - Greg Immink (113 games) - 2001-06
    122 - Eric Elliott (103 games) - 1987-91
8. 116 - Greg Mitchell (101 games) - 1985-89
    116 - Tyler Wolfe (93 games) - 2006-08

For attempts
Derek's 372 puts him 3rd, Tyler's 266 puts him 8th

1. 462 - Joel Holstege (118 games) - 1994-98
2. 392 - Chad Carlson (110 games) - 1999-03
3. 372 - Derek VanSolkema (72 games) - 2006-08
4. 369 - Stephen Cramer (114 games) - 2003-07
5. 353 - Daane Griffeth (79 games) - 2001-05
6. 341 - Greg Immink (113 games) - 2001-06
7. 271 - Eric Elliott (103 games) - 1987-91
8. 266 - Tyler Wolfe (93 games) - 2006-08
9. 257 - Jeff Carlson (95 games) - 2002-06

Percentage wise, Tyler Wolfe's .436 average puts him 7th, and VanSolkema remains in 9th at .409.


Hope's graduating alot of Mountain Dew bottles.